Red Dead Redemption

[Soapy]

The argument is moot anyway. At least for Red Dead, as it has regenerating health and health packs.

Moot.

 

[Gilpesh]

The game was not challenging to me at all. If it was to you. Great. But there must be a difference between us. I thought the combat was not that challenging.

I like how you suggest I'm bad at games here... when a few posts earlier you were talking about not caring for hostility.

And I'm not "faking" anything. I'm telling the truth to what I felt after playing the game.

That's nice. I didn't say you were faking. You clearly missed that I called the 'challenge' brought up by health packs as fake. As it is.

But if you don't like health packs fine. I gave a legitimate reason to as why I liked them.

Fake difficulty?

 

[Solidus]

The argument is moot anyway. At least for Red Dead, as it has regenerating health and health packs.

Moot.

True. To a point.

And as I said that I got off on a tangent of other things.

But. To me there were other things that made RDR less challenging to me. It would just take me a long time to type lol.

 

[Solidus]

I like how you suggest I'm bad at games here... when a few posts earlier you were talking about not caring for hostility.


That's nice. I didn't say you were faking. You clearly missed that I called the 'challenge' brought up by health packs as fake. As it is.


Fake difficulty?

First that is not what I meant. But really what can I say? You want me to say yea the game was really hard, and that is that. No. I'm just saying this game was easy to me. There is probably a million games or battles that you are hand over fist better then me. But to me, it was easy. I don't know why, but I thought it easy. Not saying it takes away from you being a gamer.

The fake thing I misunderstood, so, sorry the internet is like that. And I don't know what to say. I don't think health pack challenge is fake. But agree to disagree I guess.

Sorry for misinterpreting the fake part.

And second, I really did not mean you were less of a gamer, looking back it does seem like that. But what I meant is it was easy to me. So sorry that I did not have the same experience is you. Is that what you want me to say? I just really did not find it challenging. I have found games super challenging that my other friends found easy as hell. So that is that, maybe that was a better way for me to put it.

 

[Gilpesh]

but I thought it easy.

Yeah. But your definition of challenging is out of whack. As you think rationing things for no reason is making it a challenge. Now I could see if this were a game set on a spaceship or deep under the sea with no supplies and no backup that rationing would be an acceptable 'challenge', but everywhere else it just stinks of fakeness.

A whole city and there's only seven boxes of ammo total and three health packs? Yeah right.

 

[Solidus]

Maybe.

But I think we are just misunderstanding each other. And maybe my 12:30 at night writing is not keeping up with my thoughts.

The thing is there can be unlimited health access in games. Such as running to the store and buying as much ammo and health as you want. You could in GTA. Yet, during battle there was not an easy access to health at all. You had a health pack in GTA and when you went into battle, that was it. And that to me is a much better design. It creates more challenge to me, when your completing a mission. But afterward if you need more health you can get more.

But I'm off for the night, and sorry for the few misunderstandings, one thing I hate about the Internet is sometimes it's hard to express what you mean. And I misunderstood Soapy and what he said earlier. And it did not bug me once he explained it further. But oh well.

So good night to you gentleman.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Sorry you don't like it.

The game was not challenging to me at all. If it was to you. Great. But there must be a difference between us. I thought the combat was not that challenging. And I'm not "faking" anything. I'm telling the truth to what I felt after playing the game.

And I'm not the only one to make these claims. Even IGN made this claim that the game seemed to easy.

But if you don't like health packs fine. I gave a legitimate reason to as why I liked them. And if they are going to take them out I think they need to figure out a way to balance it more.

Maybe add more damage that can be acquired when you get shot. Yet the regen process is much slower like it is in MMO's such as WoW for mana. Where it takes longer to regen not just a few seconds. More life, and longer to regen. I'm throwing out ideas. But I always liked the idea of rationing things. If others don't. That's fine.

Did you play in expert targetting mode? If not, try it out, get your arse kicked, then rethink your opinion on the games difficulty.

If you did, then maybe you should just play Ninja Gaiden Black and nothing else lol.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Well, maybe I'm not a hardcore gamer but I'm getting my ass shot off just fine without adding health pack juggling to the mix. I like regenerating health, I liked it in Gears of War as well.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I just don't think health packs would work as well in games with cover systems... The whole mechanic is basically having onslaughts of enemies, with perfect accuracy, so you can only duck out every now and then for perfect shots. One hit, and you have to quickly get back behind cover before you die.... Hide behind cover too long, and they flank you. Theres your strategy...

I agree with you in regards to MW, but I would rather a cover system in those games ala Vegas 2 LONG before I wanted health packs. If you think back to those health pack games, the enemies were no where near as ruthless as they are in games like Gears or classic FPS, otherwise, with no cover system and health regen, and you just standing out in the open in front of enemies, you'd get gunned down.

Also, sure the Regen thing is a bit of poetic justice, but it's still a helluva lot more realistic than health packs... Health pack games, you can have like whole magazines fired into you before you die. Regen games, 3 shots, or one head shot and you're dead.

 

[.Rorschach.]

Beat the gameGreat great ending!Finished with 98.1% and looking to complete the 100% later on today.

 

[Poeman]

Sorry you don't like it.

The game was not challenging to me at all. If it was to you. Great. But there must be a difference between us. I thought the combat was not that challenging. And I'm not "faking" anything. I'm telling the truth to what I felt after playing the game.

And I'm not the only one to make these claims. Even IGN made this claim that the game seemed to easy.

But if you don't like health packs fine. I gave a legitimate reason to as why I liked them. And if they are going to take them out I think they need to figure out a way to balance it more.

Maybe add more damage that can be acquired when you get shot. Yet the regen process is much slower like it is in MMO's such as WoW for mana. Where it takes longer to regen not just a few seconds. More life, and longer to regen. I'm throwing out ideas. But I always liked the idea of rationing things. If others don't. That's fine.

It doesn't matter, because ultimately this game kicks ass of potentially any game to come out this year.. End result could be GOTY. So who really cares, it pleases the masses out there

 

[Wolvieboy17]

This whole debate just reminds me of the Splinter Cell conviction versus old school Splinter Cell... If it bother people so much, just play on realistic and try to go for the no detection challenge, I mean come on!

 

[.Rorschach.]

GOTY in my book

 

[Solidus]

Each is entitled to their opinion. And that's great that some find it challenging.

But the bottom line was if people looked at my review. I loved it. It just felt lacking of challenge to me. And the pacing at the end seemed anti-climatic.

I think it is a GOTY contender. But so far I think ME2 is still my top GOTY contender. And I have a feeling Gran Turismo 5 will take my GOTY spot. But we will see.

Also Super Mario Galaxy 2 is amazing. Lots of good games this year.

 

[BlackLantern]

"your review"? oh, you're one of those, are you??

Gran Turismo doesn't have health packs so how is that possible??

 

[Solidus]

I just don't think health packs would work as well in games with cover systems... The whole mechanic is basically having onslaughts of enemies, with perfect accuracy, so you can only duck out every now and then for perfect shots. One hit, and you have to quickly get back behind cover before you die.... Hide behind cover too long, and they flank you. Theres your strategy...

I agree with you in regards to MW, but I would rather a cover system in those games ala Vegas 2 LONG before I wanted health packs. If you think back to those health pack games, the enemies were no where near as ruthless as they are in games like Gears or classic FPS, otherwise, with no cover system and health regen, and you just standing out in the open in front of enemies, you'd get gunned down.

Also, sure the Regen thing is a bit of poetic justice, but it's still a helluva lot more realistic than health packs... Health pack games, you can have like whole magazines fired into you before you die. Regen games, 3 shots, or one head shot and you're dead.

Well I'm not going to get into a realism debate on most video games. In real life you get shot once and your down or at least badly injured most of the time. So I would not try and stretch that. Both aspects are unrealistic in many ways. Regaining your health magically don't happen in real life either. So I think that is not the best argument. It's a game where you can get shot three times in the head and still survive. Or once in the head and still survive. It usually does not happen like that in RL. So I'm not going to say that this is a good ground to say that regen is better because of "realism".

And games of old had onslaught of enemies like Half-Life where the AI was incredibly sharp and would do anything to flush you out of cover. And all the other stuff was just one more thing on top of what you had to worry of. So theres strategy on top of the things I've been discussing.

And again its not the only thing that causes this problem of challenge. I think they need to start bringing variety back and have health packs in some games *some still do it*. And I think the regen games need to re-design some aspects other then the health. But it's to eaches own.

But again I through RDR was a good game, but not as fun for me as GTA IV was. But by no means do I think one should not go out there and purchase it.

 

[Solidus]

"your review"? oh, you're one of those, are you??

Gran Turismo doesn't have health packs so how is that possible??

Oh my god yes. I am expressing my opinion on a game! No way!!!! How dare I!?

Let's see you must be one of THOSE too since you have reviewed many movies.

So let's see I can't review a game.......but you can. You can review it if its glowing and agrees with everyone else? I think that is the most hypocritical thing I've heard you say. You always try to have a "different" opinion of other things. So when I do it...it's wrong? And it makes me some kind of pretentious jerk? Knock it off.

Why should I not give my opinion?

And my whole argument has been over action games.......not racing games. So the sarcasm is just again sad that you have to resort to it because my opinion is different even though I said I loved the game.

EDIT: And it's fine if people disagree with me, I'm not saying one has to. But come on dude. I spend pages expressing my opinion. My original post that started this debate was my review. So why shouldn't I reference it if those people think I hated the game.

I just don't get why I can't talk about flaws of a game I loved.

 

[Soapy]

I just finished the game last night. It's definitely one of the best games I've ever played. But it's not without problems. Like all GTA games, it sags in the middle with a lot of filler missions. I feel this even comes at the detriment of the protagonist.

John Marston doesn't seem the type to suffer fools gladly, and yet he does. Repeatedly. And it seems so out of character for a man such as him to do so. I know he's trying to change his ways or whatever, but there comes a point when you just want to see him put his gun in someone's mouth and force them to give the information he needs instead of having to run around as everyone's personal errand boy.

And that doesn't even take into consideration the weird disparity between narrative and gameplay. You're playing a good guy, and yet he's killed hundreds if not thousands of people during his quest. Of course that's a problem with a lot of games so I won't harp on it too much here.

Anyway, all this errand-running and wanton murder and destruction results in John Marston being less believable as a character for me. That is until near the end of the game when he gets to [BLACKOUT]chill with his family for a while.[/BLACKOUT] That brought him back down to earth. And I think it was a really smart thing for Rockstar to do. It was necessary to humanize him again and they totally knocked it out of the park. And the end. Oh god, the end.

Spoiler

Seeing John on his knees with a big hole blown in his chest. Hearing him wheeze as he was trying to catch his breath. That killed me. No game has ever made me cry. And it's been years and years since a movie has done so. Did I cry at the end of this game? No. I didn't, but I'll be damned if I didn't feel like crying. Seeing this man dying really effected for me for some reason.

I feel like that last mission with Jack could have been more satisfying, but I guess it's fine for an epilogue.

So because Red Dead actually made me care and feel something, I think this game personified the wild west and the death of it better and more effectively than any movie ever has.

I focused more on the negative than I wanted to, but I think that's only because the rest of the game is So. Damn. Good. Anything not up to par kind of stands out.

This game made me think of something I heard John Davison say recently when talking about "good games". I'm paraphrasing, but: "The gap between the truly great stuff and everything else is getting wider ever single day." I think that's certainly true with Red Dead Redemption.

 

[Solidus]

I just finished the game last night. It's definitely one of the best games I've ever played. But it's not without problems. Like all GTA games, it sags in the middle with a lot of filler missions. I feel this even comes at the detriment of the protagonist.

John Marston doesn't seem the type to suffer fools gladly, and yet he does. Repeatedly. And it seems so out of character for a man such as him to do so. I know he's trying to change his ways or whatever, but there comes a point when you just want to see him put his gun in someone's mouth and force them to give the information he needs instead of having to run around as everyone's personal errand boy.

And that doesn't even take into consideration the weird disparity between narrative and gameplay. You're playing a good guy, and yet he's killed hundreds if not thousands of people during his quest. Of course that's a problem with a lot of games so I won't harp on it too much here.

Anyway, all this errand-running and wanton murder and destruction results in John Marston being less believable as a character for me. That is until near the end of the game when he gets to [BLACKOUT]chill with his family for a while.[/BLACKOUT] That brought him back down to earth. And I think it was a really smart thing for Rockstar to do. It was necessary to humanize him again and they totally knocked it out of the park. And the end. Oh god, the end.

Spoiler

Seeing John on his knees with a big hole blown in his chest. Hearing him wheeze as he was trying to catch his breath. That killed me. No game has ever made me cry. And it's been years and years since a movie has done so. Did I cry at the end of this game? No. I didn't, but I'll be damned if I didn't feel like crying. Seeing this man dying really effected for me for some reason.

So because Red Dead actually made me care and feel something, I think this game personified the wild west and the death of it better and more effectively than any movie ever has.

I focused more on the negative than I wanted to, but I think that's only because the rest of the game is So. Damn. Good. Anything not up to par kind of stands out.

This game made me think of something I heard John Davidson say recently when talking about "good games". I'm paraphrasing, but: "The gap between the truly great stuff and everything else is getting wider ever single day." I think that's certainly true with Red Dead Redemption.

Nice review.

Spoiler

The ending was quite emotional. I was mad they killed it, but it made sense in the overall arc. Very rarely does a game reach a level of a movie to me and touch me emotionally. I would say this is up there as one of the few games that have. MGS4 and FFVII still were the most for me.

But it is amazing to see how Rockstar has developed themselves as story tellers. From the very basic GTAIII plot with a no name protagonist. To a quite deep one from RDR. I'm glad they continue to grow.

 

[Nathan]

I asked today at work, if I could get some cash in advance. And guess what?

I am now the proud owner of Red Dead Redemption for the PS3. t:

 

[Syncos]

Well I'm not going to get into a realism debate on most video games. In real life you get shot once and your down or at least badly injured most of the time. So I would not try and stretch that. Both aspects are unrealistic in many ways. Regaining your health magically don't happen in real life either. So I think that is not the best argument. It's a game where you can get shot three times in the head and still survive. Or once in the head and still survive. It usually does not happen like that in RL. So I'm not going to say that this is a good ground to say that regen is better because of "realism".

And games of old had onslaught of enemies like Half-Life where the AI was incredibly sharp and would do anything to flush you out of cover. And all the other stuff was just one more thing on top of what you had to worry of. So theres strategy on top of the things I've been discussing.

And again its not the only thing that causes this problem of challenge. I think they need to start bringing variety back and have health packs in some games *some still do it*. And I think the regen games need to re-design some aspects other then the health. But it's to eaches own.

But again I through RDR was a good game, but not as fun for me as GTA IV was. But by no means do I think one should not go out there and purchase it.

With a character that's a known outlaw and now bounty hunter, i'm willing to put my suspension of disbelief far enough out there that he has the medical expertise needed to fix a wound. Even if you don't see it. The concept of wounds healing over time is certainly realistic. That happens. but the rate at which it heals is exaggerated.

I wouldn't be against health packs or bandaids or whatever they'd want to put in at the general store. As long as they weren't spawning over the giant open world. But I wouldn't want to get rid of the regen. And I know I certainly wouldn't use them. it would make the game too easy.

 

[Solidus]

With a character that's a known outlaw and now bounty hunter, i'm willing to put my suspension of disbelief far enough out there that he has the medical expertise needed to fix a wound. Even if you don't see it. The concept of wounds healing over time is certainly realistic. That happens. but the rate at which it heals is exaggerated.

I wouldn't be against health packs or bandaids or whatever they'd want to put in at the general store. As long as they weren't spawning over the giant open world. But I wouldn't want to get rid of the regen. And I know I certainly wouldn't use them. it would make the game too easy.

LOL not with bullet wounds...in a few seconds. Usually if one just sits there with a bullet in their head they die lol. Or anywhere else with not taking the bullet out and at least trying to fix it they die of infection. A body can heal itself if its a cut. But a bullet in ya, infection and other things will get ya.

But again like I said, I don't care about the realism. I really don't. To me I just said that it is not a good argument when both ways are very unrealistic to the situations. But their games and they need these things to move on.

But again that's fine if some like the regen. It's cool, I just prefer the other way. I still like most of these games with regen I just feel something is lacking.

 

[Soapy]

Nice review.

Ha. Thanks. I didn't for that to turn into a review, I just started rambling.

Spoiler

The ending was quite emotional. I was mad they killed it, but it made sense in the overall arc. Very rarely does a game reach a level of a movie to me and touch me emotionally. I would say this is up there as one of the few games that have. MGS4 and FFVII still were the most for me.

But it is amazing to see how Rockstar has developed themselves as story tellers. From the very basic GTAIII plot with a no name protagonist. To a quite deep one from RDR. I'm glad they continue to grow.

I totally agree. It's really amazing to think about just how high the bar for narrative and characterization has been raised just in the last year or two with games like Uncharted 2, Assassin's Creed II, Mass Effect 2, and now Red Dead Redemption. (Hmm...notice that they're all sequels.) The developers behind these games are all making their contemporaries look completely foolish by comparison.

 

[Solidus]

Ha. Thanks. I didn't for that to turn into a review, I just started rambling.



I totally agree. It's really amazing to think about just how high the bar for narrative and characterization has been raised just in the last year or two with games like Uncharted 2, Assassin's Creed II, Mass Effect 2, and now Red Dead Redemption. (Hmm...notice that they're all sequels.) The developers behind these games are all making their contemporaries look completely foolish by comparison.

Agreed. Another aspect that I think Rockstar nailed was the music. I got mine at GS so I got that little code thing for the soundtrack. And it sounds superb.

That is one thing the past two generations I have loved is how many are raising the bar with music. Halo, MGS, RDR and many other games where the score sure adds to the environment as well as the character. It kinda makes me wish with GTAV they try to put a score into it as well. To make it even more emotional.

 

[Two-Face]

I'm afraid Xbox version specially the graphics looks much better, I trade in for the FIFA 2010 World Cup game on PS3, RDR looks not good on PS3.