"Reinforcement" Season 2: Episode 16 Discussion Thread

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Overall, not a bad episode, but not one of their best.
Personally I thought that this episode was as good as previous episodes this season, if not stronger than them in certain aspects.

The more significant appearance of Master Planner and the multiple instances of diverting suspicion away from Doc Ock was very interesting to watch; although the silouette of Master Planner did look a lot like Doc Ock.

@Stillanerd: That's a very interesting suggestion for who is behind it all!
 
Spidey beat the new Sinister Six relatively easy, compared to the last time. But they screwed it up by attacking him only two at a time. Not so good plan there, mr. Master Planner.

I've just rewatched the episode and it actually is a great plan, when you think about it...
By attacking two at a time, they know they won't get in each other's way like last time (and mostly none of them did except for newbies Mysterio and Kraven), while the quick succession of the fights still ensures that Spidey will tire out, so the overall effect is the same.
I wish them better luck next time, though.

Also, notice how one of Mysterio's imps goes "No Christmas spirit"? Nice touch.
 
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I just watched it and it was really great. It was fun seeing the Sinister Six operate with Doc Ock's guidance, and they were a complete mess. Half of them ended up taking one of the team out by accident :D

Regarding the Master Planner
There's not a question in my mind now that it's Doc Ock. All that stuff in the clinic is a smoke screen. When Dr Kafka said Ock's progress to recovery has been "Nothing short of amazing", I knew it was a red herring to throw the regular viewers off. Couple with the fact that Ock escaped at the end of the episode by his own tentacles. And nobody can control those tentacles except Ock.

The Master Planner's silhouette also looked like Ock, IMO. And Peter MacNicol was credited once again as the Master Planner as well as Doc Ock.

Getting a little bored for Peter's love life. He needs to get over himself and just be with Gwen. Their ***** footing around eachother is getting old.

Overall, a solid episode. 9/10. Bring on The Master Planner!!! :otto:
 
I didn't get something tho, isn't Ock bound to his tentacles in this series? Or the accident just drove him mad? :huh:
 
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I didn't get something tho, isn't Ock bound to his tentacles in this series? Or the accident just drove him mad? :huh:

It's like in the comic books. Ock's tentacle harness was fused to his body, but eventually the doctors found a way to surgically remove it. But he still retained his mental link to them, and often used them to break him out of prison. Like what we saw in this episode.

It was a classic Doc Ock prison escape. Stan Lee first did it in the very first Sinister Six story in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1.
 
I'm not a fan of spidey dealing with the sinister six in any sort of combo.

this ep takes away from the edge the symbiote had in doing it on his own.

spidey should never directly be a challenge for six of them, he should be get them to take each other out or cause conflict between them.

this is the problem with the six, they work better alone because together, they get defeated easily.

kraven managed to give spidey a black eye on his own the week before, now they can barely cause a scratch on him collectively.

Gotta say the best interactions were rhino and sandman, those two are an awesome double team, best part of the fight.

dont dig lion kraven, he got reduced to muscle, he should be the brains of the organisation (or at least field leader).
 
It's like in the comic books. Ock's tentacle harness was fused to his body, but eventually the doctors found a way to surgically remove it. But he still retained his mental link to them, and often used them to break him out of prison. Like what we saw in this episode.

It was a classic Doc Ock prison escape. Stan Lee first did it in the very first Sinister Six story in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1.

Ok thanks, I see now. I'm just too used to the TAS Ock being jailed with his tentacles too :p
 
I didn't get something tho, isn't Ock bound to his tentacles in this series? Or the accident just drove him mad? :huh:

In this series, he is indeed stuck to his harness. However, we have seen (in the first Sinister Six episode) that his tentacles are detachable (making it easier to get him in the prison system). His tenticles, although detached, still are linked to the harness and will still work without being attached. And now that his battery is pretty much perpetually charged, he shouldn't have a problem with his...ockiness...

As for the Six, I'm sure that the two by two thing was to tire Spidey out so the final duo could finish him. Much like how Ock waited for Spider-Man to waste his energy fighting the other 5 and then come in to finish it in the first go around.

Let's be real, Ock is Master Planner. He plays like he's anemic again, but he's pulling the strings of all these criminals from inside a mental institution. His arms breaking him out after his cohorts failed is a little convienient AND he's just in time for the Master Planner episode on New Years Eve....
 
Otto pretending (for example, he was screaming when the tentacles were taking hi maway) was a great touch, IMO. Defenitely fits Ock's character and how he plans things.
 
Well, this was a nice action-packed little episode, although it certainly is a bit weird to see a Christmas episode that's not around Christmas time. Anyway:

There's certainly a lot to like here in terms of developments and character moments. First of all, as Spidey acknowledges, this technically is the only time he's actually beaten the Sinister Six (or is that Sinister Six 2.0?) and you definitely get a sense that he has to use his wits more than his powers to stop each one. I especially like how he stopped Electro using the ol throwing the tires routine, and also Sandman (which, I'm not sure if anyone thought of freezing him before).

Naturally, however, he's not so lucky when it comes to the romance department as we see that Liz tend to an injured Flash (who even with his cast on still tries to play the role of the bone-headed jock), get Gwen mad at him by saying she will not be his second choice, and even strikes out with MJ--well, technically, he doesn't since she accepts the offer of hot cooca, but he sure lost points for looking at her...um, assets? (Snapping her fingers to get him to stop oggling her was classic, BTW). And even when Gwen is clearly worried about him, wondering if he had been crushed, she's still upset at Peter. Of course, this is as it should be.

You also got to appreciate the little jokes such as Spidey unable to quip properly because of a burnt tounge, Sandman saying the Kraven how he as a bad experience with cats, Rhino making his bug pun, the little robot gargoyle bats squeaking "rematch," and of course Spidey's reaction to the Daily Bugle billboard with Jameson in a Santa Claus hat. Also, we got some nice cameo appearances from Blackie Drago, "Patch", and Cletus Cassidy (in a santa hat, no less).

Thing is, I'm still not entirely sold on Kraven "the Were-cat" angle for the show, or that Mysterio still tries to pass himself off as the evil Sorcerer Supreme (although how awesome was that Chinesse Dragon he was riding on?), and I didn't really feel the rapport between the villains this time around as one did during the Sinister Six episode from last season. Still, can't complain too much.

Of course, the real interesting development comes from the Master Planner Saga and the big curve ball (which was to be expected) that Doc Ock apparently is NOT the Master Planner. In fact, he may not even be Doc Ock anymore and is just plain Otto Octavious. No, the real kicker was that, perhaps, the Master Planner is actually Doc Ock's own robotic arms. That is a nice twist on the classic story, in that while it may not physically be Doc Ock, at least a part of him is involved. Although, I'm sure some might think it's too much like Spider-Man 2 with the AI tentacles, but I think it's an effective take, considering how long term Spider-Man fans already know the Master Planner is Doc Ock and that Weisman uses that to his advantage.

Oh, and that was a very nice ending, as well with regards to Aunt May's Christmas present.

The next episode, in which my guess about the Master Planner might come about and how this is possible should prove interesting. Not to mention we could get one of those moments of Spidey lifting the big weight off his shoulders in the cartoon series.

I'll be very disappointed if we don't get to see Spidey lift the huge weight off of himself next episode. It is one of the MOST iconic moments in Spidey history. It has to be done just right. :cwink:

Sadly it's already been done in animation. :csad:

Pay very close attention to the Batman Beyond episode "Heroes".
There is a scene where a huge machine falls on Terry. I wish I could find pictures...the resemblance is unmistakable, choreographed exactly off the pages of Spider-man.

There were alot of other Marvel references as well.
 
Otto pretending (for example, he was screaming when the tentacles were taking hi maway) was a great touch, IMO. Defenitely fits Ock's character and how he plans things.

I agree. although I wanted to believe that he isn't the master planner at first...

but OTTO snapped immediately when he had power as he did in the comics. I don't believe that the tentacles are controlling him as they did in Spider-man 2...if thats the case than he would become a tragic villain instead of a criminal mastermind as he should be. So far he's been shown as the one to control the tentacles...not the other way around. :yay:

He was way out of character in the episode....and little too much like the ock of the beginning.

However I should not underestimate Weisman. It could go either way...and thats why I love watching his show. They REALLY put some thought into this toon.
 
but OTTO snapped immediately when he had power as he did in the comics. I don't believe that the tentacles are controlling him as they did in Spider-man 2.

Of course they're not. Don't know how anyone could come up with that theorey. This Doc Ock is evil all the way. The tentacles have zero influence on him. He was having visions of impaling Norman Osborn on his tentacles before he even became Doc Ock.

And I bet he is playing Dr Kafka like a fiddle. Ock is a master manipulator and a con man.
 
Personally, I hope they forego the whole "psychic link" between Ock and his arms. I always found that corny. I'd prefer it if they were being controlled (and upgraded) by Tinkerer. sPeaking of which, he should just go by Mason. Tinkerer's probably the silliest nickname this show has had yet.
 
What if Osborn is the master planner? We haven't seen him yet this season.
 
You mean Harry Osbourne? Don't be ridiculous. Sally Avril's the Master Planner! Always knew the wretch was no good!
 
First episode. The Warren brothers, Curt Connors and his wife, Norman and his wife were having dinner. And then Norman implied to Peter that he would be Peter's "mentor" at the end.
 
Personally, I hope they forego the whole "psychic link" between Ock and his arms. I always found that corny.

I'd say you're in for a disappointment then.

And I love how Ock can control his tentacles whether they're attached to him or not. It's uber creepy. How he can still feel and sense them like a phantom limb that's been ripped from his body.

Brilliant.
 
I just saw the episode...and it was great, and funny, too, even though it was three groups of Sinister Two, instead of the new Six attacking together, like in Group Therapy. And Kraven is still Lion-Man. This sucks. But it was good to see the Season 1 villains, again, specially Rhino and Sandman's partnership.
9/10.
 

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