Rethink Drinking Age, Many University Presidents Say

Ok, but as Spider-Bite asked, do you think every drug (heroine, meth, cocaine) should be legalized, irrespective to consequences to society?
I believe that those with a problem would be better suited to go to a Rehab situation that is far better for the individual in terms of helping them beat their addiction, and far cheaper on the Tax payer. I believe in the De-Criminilaztion of drugs, and the money wasted on the War on Drugs would be better used in Rehabilitation.
 
For one, I did not ever type out the word Dictatorship, because, like all the other Political Terms you used, you don't seem to understand the word.

Dictatorship is a type of Executive Branch. I said that you seem to favor Fascistic and Pro-Statist forms of Government.
read the words. You said I support a govenrment of tyranny. A tyrant is a dictator. I provided links to the definitions.

I will not bring up any study or have I ever said anything about any study to prove that 18 year olds would be less dangerous with regard to legally obtaining alcohol. My Arguement, which you seem to not understand, is I am in favor of Liberty and freedom, even at the cost of the individual, because, like what Jman said, it's all about Personal Responibility.

and the cost to society?

You can't prove that every person with alcohol is an alcoholic.
don't need to. I know that is not true. so why say that?

The line of thought that it is for their own good is elitist, and to empower Government to control others just because you don't agree with it, puts you on the same playing field of the Evangelicals that made Homosexuality illegal, just because they didn't agree with it.
this is not an issue of bigotry, mixing religion with politics, or discrimination. this is an absurd comparison.

I don't care if some one could get hurt, that would be a result of a choice they made.
or a choice somebody else madeI do care, however, IF they hurt someone else. IF they hurt someone else, then they should be punished. Because, it is the ACT of harm that is Criminal, not the freedom to pursue life.

Government is not the End all, be all.

I will say this again: You need to read three books.

1. Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
2. Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg
3. The FairTax Book by Neal Boortz and John Linder
so I need to educate myself, before making a decision, but you don't?
"Atlas Shrugged" will teach you about Capitalism. "Liberal Fascism" will teach you about the origin of your line of thinking, and exactly how dangerous it is. "The FairTax Book" will teach you about Liberty, Freedom, Taxation and US Government.
the origin of my line of thinking and how dangerous it is? dude your not living in reality. there is nothing dangerous about compassion. The danger lies in the lack there of. And I'm constantly educating myself. And I see no reason why I should choose those books over anything else. and what difference does the origin of it make? dude I'll choose to study my history books, which have taught me about the origin of my line of thinking, thank you very much. And history has also taught me alot about the opposite line of thinking.

I do however highly doubt you will take me up on that.
possibly some day, but your telling me to do so, doesn't have any bearing on whether or not I would. I'll probably just get a degree and study many world history classes. and in the spring semester I will be taking a comparitive politics class which focuses on the origins and comparisons of liberalism, facism, conservatism, and so on.

see unlike somebody I don't claim to not need to know information on a subject.
 
Nope, I do not support the Government that tells me what I can do in my own home that does not harm anyone else. So, you are wrong on that one, again.

Actually I wasn't asking you. I was asking JMan, so we still don't know if I was right or wrong.

and what if that activity makes you considerably more likely to harm somebody else? Legalizing all drugs will surely lead to increase in abused children, and doesn't their right to not be abused heavily outweight your right to smoke crack?

Yes it does! Legalizing all drugs would be horrible for society.
 
see what I mean about instead of providing stats and reasoning, I get sarcastic remarks and exagerations? I do not approach every issue absolutely committed to huge federal government.

I'm sure there are at least some laws you support, which means you don't believe every single decision should be left up to the individual.

Why is it okay for you to support govenrment intervention but not me? Do you believe heroin should be legal? Probably not, and assuming you don't, does that mean you too believe the govenrment should rape your ability to decide things?

We all have different opinions you know. We all support the government telling us what to do. We just have different opinions on what and when.

I think, a few posts back, I said that I support government intervention to an extent. Just not when it encroaches on our rights to make well-informed, responsible decisions.

Heroin shouldn't be legal because the addiction rate and consequences of heroin use are far more severe than alcohol use. You really can't be a casual heroin user, those who use heroin have a high likelihood of developing an addiction which is far more life threatening. And those who use 'a little too much' heroin run the risk of killing themselves in a drug overdose. Hardcore drug use is one of the few things I think the government has a right in deciding for people, because the consequences in a vast majority of the cases (keyword: vast) are far worse.

Of course, just because there's a law saying that we cannot use heroin, doesn't mean that people don't do it. If I wanted heroin right now, I could hop on a bus and travel into Southeast DC, where I'm certain I'd be able to score some for cheap. But, because I can make a rational decision and understand the consequences of heroin use, I have no desire to do so.

Alcohol is different. You can be a casual drinker, it takes a lot of alcohol to kill a man. And you won't develop an addiction after four or five drinks. Therefore, people should be able to decide their fate with alcohol. You're argument, though, is that people are incapable of making well-informed decisions and that the government needs to intervene with alcohol. Which is silliness, because you can make almost an unlimited number of well-informed decisions in regards to alcohol.
 
I think, a few posts back, I said that I support government intervention to an extent. Just not when it encroaches on our rights to make well-informed, responsible decisions.

Heroin shouldn't be legal because the addiction rate and consequences of heroin use are far more severe than alcohol use. You really can't be a casual heroin user, those who use heroin have a high likelihood of developing an addiction which is far more life threatening. And those who use 'a little too much' heroin run the risk of killing themselves in a drug overdose.

Being as you are a fellow college student I'm sure you have witnessed somebody who OD'd on alcohol get taken away in an ambulance, about once every two weeks, just as I have. except for during the first week of a semester, when you see like three or four people od on alcohol.

Hardcore drug use is one of the few things I think the government has a right in deciding for people, because the consequences in a vast majority of the cases (keyword: vast) are far worse.

Of course, just because there's a law saying that we cannot use heroin, doesn't mean that people don't do it. If I wanted heroin right now, I could hop on a bus and travel into Southeast DC, where I'm certain I'd be able to score some for cheap. But, because I can make a rational decision and understand the consequences of heroin use, I have no desire to do so.

Alcohol is different. You can be a casual drinker, it takes a lot of alcohol to kill a man. And you won't develop an addiction after four or five drinks. Therefore, people should be able to decide their fate with alcohol. You're argument, though, is that people are incapable of making well-informed decisions and that the government needs to intervene with alcohol. Which is silliness, because you can make almost an unlimited number of well-informed decisions in regards to alcohol.
Now based on your own logic here, isn't liberty not enough of an argument? Before you said if it's hurts the person, it's their own business so long as they don't hurt anybody else. let them learn from their own mistakes, and all that. It is possible for a person to OD on heroin and learn from it and not make that mistake again. let them ruin their own lives. If they do this and die, good it's one less heroine user on the street. It's their own fault anyways. not everybody will turn into a heroine addict if we legalize it etc. and not every person who experiments with it will become an addict. some people just want to experiment here and there, and are smart enough not to keep doing it. they shouldn't be punished because of the idiots.

i could even go on to say how I experimented with LSD, crack, cocaine, opium, salvia, tranquilizers, and vikadin. I could go on further to say that I did LSD once, had a bad trip, never did it again. In fact I only did coke twice out of curiosity, and all of the other drugs I did were only once, and it's been over six years since I did them. I only tried them out of curiousity and then stayed away from them except slavia and vikaden. Those were both less than a year ago.

But just because they didn't ruin my life, that doesn't mean they didn't ruin the lives of others.

Now I understand your argument for why heroine should be illegal is sound. The negatives it will have on society far outweight the positives. On other drugs besides marijuana, I am opposed to the legalization.

Like me, you too support the govenrment telling people what they can and can't do, even when it doesn't hurt anybody else. so to claim, that you support liberty and I don't is quite hypocritical. There is no reason why it's okay for you to say the government can step in and make decisions for adults, but I can't. We both believe the governement gets to tell us what we can and can't do. we just disagree on when. so you just shot down the whole liberty argument, and admitted that more than just liberty needs to be taken into consideration.

statistics and infromation need to be considered, as you just demonstrated when you commented on how much more harmful and addicting heroin is than alcohol. that is information you took into consideration, and came to the conclusion that it would be bad for society.

Now I believe based on stats that lowering the drinking age would not be good for society. Now obviously you have every right to disagree, but if you want a strong argument, you have to provide some type of evidence that this will not lead to an increase in ruined lives. to say that if people ruin their lives, well then too bad because it's their own fault, would be the complete opposite of everything you just claimed to believe in this post I am quoting.
 
I should also add that because of the difference in the number of people who would want to use heroine, and the number of people who would want to get drunk, lowering the drinking age would actually ruin more lives than legalizing heroine would.
 
Being as you are a fellow college student I'm sure you have witnessed somebody who OD'd on alcohol get taken away in an ambulance, about once every two weeks, just as I have. except for during the first week of a semester, when you see like three or four people od on alcohol.

No, that is actually a rarity on my campus.

Now based on your own logic here, isn't liberty not enough of an argument? Before you said if it's hurts the person, it's their own business so long as they don't hurt anybody else. let them learn from their own mistakes, and all that. It is possible for a person to OD on heroin and learn from it and not make that mistake again. let them ruin their own lives. If they do this and die, good it's one less heroine user on the street. It's their own fault anyways. not everybody will turn into a heroine addict if we legalize it etc. and not every person who experiments with it will become an addict. some people just want to experiment here and there, and are smart enough not to keep doing it. they shouldn't be punished because of the idiots.

I support the decriminalization of all drugs. However, I do not support the full legalization of drugs such as heroin, crack, etc. due to their affects on the vast majority of people who use them. If people want to do these drugs, that's fine by me. That's their decision to make. But I don't think they should be legalized. (and so you are aware, legalization and decriminalization are two completely different things).

What I mean by government intervention, in this case, is that the government should be responsible for promoting educational awareness to these drugs in poor, ethnic neighborhoods, where these drugs are most prevalent. The government should also be involved in efforts to get these drugs off the streets, and arrest those who deal these drugs. Those who use drugs such as heroin, crack, etc. on a regular basis should be sent to rehab, because of their adverse affects and high addiction rate. That's where I think the government should be making decisions for the people, when it comes to someone's health which has already been deteriorated by a substance or social morre.

i could even go on to say how I experimented with LSD, crack, cocaine, opium, salvia, tranquilizers, and vikadin. I could go on further to say that I did LSD once, had a bad trip, never did it again. In fact I only did coke twice out of curiosity, and all of the other drugs I did were only once, and it's been over six years since I did them. I only tried them out of curiousity and then stayed away from them except slavia and vikaden. Those were both less than a year ago.

That's your business. And, might I say, you are an idiot for trying any of those.

Like me, you too support the govenrment telling people what they can and can't do, even when it doesn't hurt anybody else. so to claim, that you support liberty and I don't is quite hypocritical. There is no reason why it's okay for you to say the government can step in and make decisions for adults, but I can't. We both believe the governement gets to tell us what we can and can't do. we just disagree on when. so you just shot down the whole liberty argument, and admitted that more than just liberty needs to be taken into consideration.

Except, the problem is, drugs such as heroin have such high addiction rates and the consequences of heroin use are so adverse that there's really no comparison to my stance and your stance on alcohol. You support the continuation of an arbitrary drinking age based on your assumption that people under the age of 21 aren't "adult enough" to drink, and I support lowering the drinking age because I think that, once someone is an adult, he or she should make their own decisions.

I do not support the criminalization of hardcore drugs. I believe that the government should intervene only when someone's health is at risk. The vast majority of heroin users destroy their lives, these drugs destroy neighborhoods and have been the subject of gang activity in some of our cities for decades. I think the government needs to work to get these drugs off of the street and rehabilitate those who are addicted to it. Legalizing these substances wouldn't make any sense.

Alcohol is an entirely different story here. People can and do drink without throwing their lives away, and yeah, people at a young age can do the same. The difference here is, alcohol is legal. The vast majority of those who drink don't become rampant alcoholics, nor do they crash their cars into pedestrians, nor do they destroy their families. Hardcore drug users often become addicted, they often destroy their lives, they often leave a dark mark on society... and I think the government should help clean up that mess through rehabilitation and educational programs, in addition to raids.

statistics and infromation need to be considered, as you just demonstrated when you commented on how much more harmful and addicting heroin is than alcohol. that is information you took into consideration, and came to the conclusion that it would be bad for society.

Now I believe based on stats that lowering the drinking age would not be good for society. Now obviously you have every right to disagree, but if you want a strong argument, you have to provide some type of evidence that this will not lead to an increase in ruined lives. to say that if people ruin their lives, well then too bad because it's their own fault, would be the complete opposite of everything you just claimed to believe in this post I am quoting.

Again, these are two completely different scenarios. Next, you'll ask me if I think it's alright for people to crash planes into giant buildings and if the government should stop them. I still believe that the government should not interfere in an adult's ability to make a responsible, well informed decision, and I'm not giving you any statistics because I am not here to cater to you.
 
I should also add that because of the difference in the number of people who would want to use heroine, and the number of people who would want to get drunk, lowering the drinking age would actually ruin more lives than legalizing heroine would.

If you legalized heroin, though, then it could be sold in stores, so I highly doubt your claim is anywhere close to being true.
 
I'm in a hurry right now, so all I have time to say is alcohol is way stronger than coke, crack, opium, tranquilizers, or vikaden. Those drugs could never **** you up the way alcohol can.
 
I'm in a hurry right now, so all I have time to say is alcohol is way stronger than coke, crack, opium, tranquilizers, or vikaden. Those drugs could never **** you up the way alcohol can.

:lmao:

You do realize how audacious that is? Cocaine can cause an instant heart attack in some people, and crack and opium are extremely addicting. Tranquilizers and Vicodin are not nearly as problematic as alcohol but that is because those two substances are used primarily as prescribed medicine. Cocaine, crack and opium are drugs purely used for recreational activities (and yes I understand that some painkillers are derived from opium), so they have a much higher potency than medicine which is prescribed by medical practitioners.

It is very rare that someone will become addicted to alcohol after one or two uses, it is very rare that one or two drinks will kill someone or cause them to make questionable decisions. Crack, cocaine and opium are extremely addicting, you can become addicted with very few uses of those drugs. The physical dependency on those drugs is far greater than alcohol could ever be, also. The side effects from withdrawal are also adverse and potentially destructive.

But now I need to know this... why is alcohol far more dangerous? Because someone might get behind the wheel of a car if they aren't thinking? Or because someone might do something stupid under the influence? Crack, cocaine and opium have the same problems. The same problems. They alter perception, reaction time, and how we conduct ourselves. I'm very interested in knowing WHY alcohol is far worse than these drugs, because you've not only lost me, it's as if you're speaking in tongues.
 
I'm in a hurry right now, so all I have time to say is alcohol is way stronger than coke, crack, opium, tranquilizers, or vikaden. Those drugs could never **** you up the way alcohol can.
I didn't know it was possible to be in the Negative Credibility Catagory, but, Congrats, you just made it.
 
vikaden??? if you're going to make an inane point at least try to spell correctly....

Vicodin
 
Is the age really the problem or this countries obsession with binge drinking? Look at Europe and most parts of the world. What are their drinking laws, and do they have our kind of problems? I believe we make our situation worse by the emphasis of being 21 to drink legally. It makes it like an obsession to some people in our society.

I think lowering the age could help some of the problems actually, but at the same time I think there needs to be more discussion about alcohol period, and parents need to start to do their damn jobs already.
 
I'm in a hurry right now, so all I have time to say is alcohol is way stronger than coke, crack, opium, tranquilizers, or vikaden. Those drugs could never **** you up the way alcohol can.
Too bad this thread died, I really was looking forward to an explanation for this. haha.
 
Too bad this thread died, I really was looking forward to an explanation for this. haha.

Spider-Bite won't have an explanation for this. Or one which is rooted in reality. It will be something along the lines of "well more people in this country are alcoholics than crack addicts," or "more people die every year from car accidents than overdoes on cocaine/ vikaden [sic]."

Skillfully leaving out the fact that cocaine, crack and opium are FAR more addicting than alcohol, and that the health defects caused by those drugs are far more short-term and severe than alcohol is.

But hey, he knows more about us than ourselves, so it looks like I'll be an alcoholic in five years and on a constant downward spiral, never mind the fact that I haven't been ****-faced drunk since my birthday in January... and I really have no intention of doing the same in the near future...
 

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