Riots in Missouri - Part 2

[Docker2.0]

I don't think you know what a hoodrat is...but, anyway...a hoodrat shouldn't be gunned down in the street like a dog just for being a hoodrat. There ought to be more to it than just that, otherwise you could justify the mass murder of entire neighborhoods with that kind of thinking, so I think we need to be very careful with that line of thought.

The protests are about more than Michael Brown and Eric Garner, I think. I think these are just incidents that have galvanized people. I doubt anyone is saying that a 12 year old girls life doesn't matter...

Those two shouldn't be in the same sentence. Two entirely different situations.

 

[Schlosser85]

Trying to turn Brown into a poster child for police brutality is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. He just isn't some martyr like some are determined to twist him into. And he's taking undeserved attention away from people who were actual innocent victims.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Ok had it coming maybe a bit to harsh but judging by his actions, I'd say it's kind of hard to defend the guy. He was on tape basically robbing and assaulting a man half his size. There was evidence of him being inside the car and on the officers gun. Just saying, he put himself in that situation. Garner did not. It's bs that cop got away.

A cop pulls you through a window and you wouldn't try and get away? Wouldn't your fingerprints be all over the inside of the car?

That's the part I still don't get about the car confrontation.

 

[Docker2.0]

A cop pulls you through a window and you wouldn't try and get away? Wouldn't your fingerprints be all over the inside of the car?

That's the part I still don't get about the car confrontation.

That makes no sense. Why would a cop try and pull a guy that big into his car?! What's more believable: Brown going for his gun after he just assaulted and robbed a store or the cop just pulling up beside him and trying to pull him into his car for a joyride?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Trying to turn Brown into a poster child for police brutality is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. He just isn't some martyr like some are determined to twist him into. And he's taking undeserved attention away from people who were actual innocent victims.

Innocent victims is a loaded term.

Do people have to pass some kind of test to be deemed fit to deserve justice for a crime? Do we only go after rapist who attack pure women and not ****ty girls who should have known better in the first place?

 

[Kelly]

I agree it's homicide. Murder? No. Manslaughter, perhaps. Reckless homicide, definitely.

The bar for murder is too high, in my opinion for either this case or the Michael Brown case.

I am interested to know if grand juries are given options like regular juries to recommend lesser charges.

If not, I think that is a flaw that should be fixed, so that more appropriate actions can be taken. If lesser charges are indeed included, then we need to hold prosecutors accountable for not making it clear that there are more options available.

Correct, there is no way they could prove 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree murder. They, HOWEVER, certainly could have proven homicide by misadventure, or reckless homicide. EITHER of those would have been fairly easy with simply the coroner's report and video as evidence.

As far as your question on can they recommend charges? In the state of New York, this is probably the closest answer to that question.

Grand juries may produce not only indictments but may direct the filing of misdemeanor charges in local courts, the removal of cases to Family Court, and may also issue “grand jury reports” concerning malfeasance of public officials and recommending their discipline.

One thing that people who are arguing that it should have never gone to a Grand Jury, again, in the state of New York...

the state constitution provides a defendant with a right to have all felonies prosecuted by way of a grand jury indictment.

 

[Schlosser85]

Shooting someone who's attacking you is not a crime. Your rape comparison doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

[Tempest]

A cop pulls you through a window and you wouldn't try and get away? Wouldn't your fingerprints be all over the inside of the car?

That's the part I still don't get about the car confrontation.

The only person who has ever said that Brown was dragged into the police car, was Brown's 'friend', who also said that Brown was on his knees with his hands raised when he was shot in the back and in the head, execution style.

And the forensics from three separate autopsies have proven that that story is simply not logical.

Brown was shot in the hand, which indicates that his hand was on or near the weapon when it discharged.

 

[Lencho01]

Just watched the Garner video for the first time.


Give him a boombox, and I'd swear it was a Found Footage version "Do The Right Thing".

From Lee himself...

[YT]Bnq4rrcIO1g[/YT]

 

[Slushy]

The NYPD deserves whatever protests / riot they get over there in The Big Apple for this miscarriage of justice.

 

[Kelly]

A cop pulls you through a window and you wouldn't try and get away? Wouldn't your fingerprints be all over the inside of the car?

That's the part I still don't get about the car confrontation.

Have you read the eyewitness reports, ANY OF THE facts? Read some....

 

[Thundercrack85]

The NYPD death is a different story. Looking at the footage, this is clearly excessive force, if not outright manslaughter.

Why were so many cops present anyway?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That makes no sense. Why would a cop try and pull a guy that big into his car?! What's more believable: Brown going for his gun after he just assaulted and robbed a store or the cop just pulling up beside him and trying to pull him into his car for a joyride?

Neither makes sense. How can someone that big reach through a window to grab a gun with a human body in a seated position in their way plus, according to Wilson, Brown was still carrying the cigarettes in his hands.

 

[Tempest]

The NYPD deserves whatever protests / riot they get over there in The Big Apple for this miscarriage of justice.

Protests, yes.

There is never an excuse for a riot. I don't care if your favorite team won. I don't care if you're so happy that you're on spring break that you decide to set fire to downtown to spread your joy. I don't care if you feel like an injustice has been dealt to someone.

No to riots.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Have you read the eyewitness reports, ANY OF THE facts? Read some....

I have. Considering the eye witnesses give several different interpretations, taking anyone's account as 100% is silly.

Have you tried that?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

The only person who has ever said that Brown was dragged into the police car, was Brown's 'friend', who also said that Brown was on his knees with his hands raised when he was shot in the back and in the head, execution style.

And the forensics from three separate autopsies have proven that that story is simply not logical.

Brown was shot in the hand, which indicates that his hand was on or near the weapon when it discharged.

Near the weapon isn't the same as going for a gun. That is what Wilson thinks he was doing, and I can see how he might see it that way. But unless Brown yelled "I'm going for your gun" that's only Wilson's interpretation. Not gospel.

Where has a cop in any of these cases openly admitted to doing the wrong thing accidentally?

That cop in SC asked the guy for his ID then shot him and lied on his report even with dash cam evidence.

 

[Dr. Evil]

There's not going to be a nationwide law until the next victim (or so they say) is either in the military or a famous celebrity/athlete.

 

[Thundercrack85]

It's not like we don't have laws regarding excessive force, and choking people to death.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

There's not going to be a nationwide law until the next victim (or so they say) is either in the military or a famous celebrity/athlete.

I'm pretty sure we have international laws against torturing prisoners and enemy combatants before Iraq part II.

We also have laws for investigating sexual assaults on colleges and the military before 2014.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I wasn't speaking for the media, I was speaking for myself, and I don't sympathize with any of the above.

It's not about the media. It's that we can look for clues and ask questions about why this person "went wrong" but many people's interpretation of Mike Brown is based on a 2 minute video and Wilson's testimony. Dude had 18 years of life to comb through but I know more about that jerk in Santa Barbara's perverted behavior over four years.

Brown's parents aren't going to admit he was a jerk who would mouth-off to a cop. Wilson isn't going to admit that his interpretation of Mike Brown as a "demon" is problematic.

The reason the protest sign reads "black lives matter" is not to segregate among who deserves attention. That black man in prison may be innocent, don't write him off cause he is in an orange jumpsuit. The little girl on the couch matters.

 

[Slushy]

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Ultimately, if you go by what was decided by the Grand Jury in Ferguson and Officer Wilson...Mike Brown's death was suicide by cop.

I mean, if you believe Wilson then that's what happened, right? Suicide by cop?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well no. Suicide by cop implies that the person wants to die.

I'd say Brown was just an idiot, who didn't seem to realize that walking in the middle of the street right after a robbery, and getting into a fight with a trigger happy St. Louis cop was probably not a good idea.

 

[summerteeth]

Correct, there is no way they could prove 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree murder. They, HOWEVER, certainly could have proven homicide by misadventure, or reckless homicide. EITHER of those would have been fairly easy with simply the coroner's report and video as evidence.

As far as your question on can they recommend charges? In the state of New York, this is probably the closest answer to that question.



One thing that people who are arguing that it should have never gone to a Grand Jury, again, in the state of New York...

Completely agree, it's a shame the grand jury failed to do that and I agree with others on here who are saying that this is the case that should be used to bring about some reform.

 

[Kelly]

I have. Considering the eye witnesses give several different interpretations, taking anyone's account as 100% is silly.

Have you tried that?

You take the eyewitness accounts that also coincide with what the autopsy and forensics from the scene show. It's called putting ALL of the evidence together. Looking at the autopsy, only about 5 of the eyewitness accounts fit. You immediately throw out ALL eyewitness accounts that state he was fleeing and was shot in the back. You throw out all that state he over 30 feet away. Blood splatter at the scene throws those eyewitness accounts out.

So whatever the forensics at the scene, in the car on the officer, and on Brown show, and THEN bring in eyewitness accounts that coincide with those reports and you make your case.

Thus far all I have seen from your posts is rhetoric from people that can't seem to get past the color of their own skin, and those that want to make a profit from this and keep their name relevant in the media. None of which have anything to do with the facts.