Riots in Missouri - Part 3

[TheComicbookKid]

.

The media does not AT ALL show the extent of criminal activity that CHILDREN commit on a daily basis. So when the media does report of "cop kills suspect, suspect only 15 yrs old", the public is outraged that a cop had to resort to deadly force on a child... and as sad as it is... the public needs to wake up and realize that children commit crimes.

Everything wrong with your post is in this one paragraph. Children commit crimes. All of them(white, black, hispanic, indian, asian).

You know what I don't see? A white kid deemed as a thug for having weed in his system( ala Treyvon Martin). You know what I don't see, a black man is elected-President of the US and the 15 and 16 year-old call him a n--ger or monkey aren't deemed as some representative of their entire generation but apparently coming from a low-encome, single parent family is apart of black culture and not a symptom of larger problems.

You know what else I see, a NY department that can openly applaud a race based "stop and frisk" policy cause that's how you stop minority crime, but largely white colleges can ignore the large number of sexual assaults and underage drinking to protect their institutions reputations. I guess if cops actually investigated them, the future Bill Clintons and Ran Paul's would have rap sheets like Eric Garner.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Join the force and start changing things.

Pfft, like an idealist would be able to move up the ranks fully.

Changing the system is not achieved so simply.

It has an immune system to defend itself from radical agents.

Serpico gets screened out before he graduates high school in this day and age.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If we're gonna be stereotypical, one could say the same about law enforcement having a positive view of black people.

Well at least it would be an honest conversation.

A conversation that might truthfully look at ways to break the cycle of distrust and resentment between police and blacks.

 

[Victarion]

1: So are you just going to ignore the fact that police who abuse their power often don't face consequences? That systemic problem doesn'tatter to you?

2: Are you suggest that police officers simply ignore protocols that encourage and call for aggressive and callous behavior? Why not do away with those protocols?

I don't usually think about it, honestly. They should face the consequences for their decisions...that's implicit in my placing the blame on the individuals that chose to throw away their sense of morality.

If the protocols are there, there's a good chance they were needed for one situation or another. That means it is up to the individual officer to chose not to employ those protocols if they are excessively brutal for a given situation. I couldn't tell you more, since I don't have the protocols, have no motivation to study the protocols, and have no context for the implementation of the protocols. Unless you're referring to protocols that are obviously outdated.

Really, it all rests on the individual to take responsibility for his or her actions by accepting the consequences of his or her actions.

Those who are disgusted enough that don't see any merit in trying to get into the system to effect change should try to get in touch with Arrow 22. He can help you with your armchair activism.

 

[The Question]

I don't usually think about it, honestly. They should face the consequences for their decisions...that's implicit in my placing the blame on the individuals that chose to throw away their sense of morality.

If the protocols are there, there's a good chance they were needed for one situation or another. That means it is up to the individual officer to chose not to employ those protocols if they are excessively brutal for a given situation. I couldn't tell you more, since I don't have the protocols, have no motivation to study the protocols, and have no context for the implementation of the protocols. Unless you're referring to protocols that are obviously outdated.

Really, it all rests on the individual to take responsibility for his or her actions by accepting the consequences of his or her actions.

Those who are disgusted enough that don't see any merit in trying to get into the system to effect change should try to get in touch with Arrow 22. He can help you with your armchair activism.

But the problem is that people aren't facing consequences for their misconduct because the system on the whole either covers for them or simply doesn't care.

Why are you unwilling to engage with that fact?

 

[Victarion]

Well, they're dealing with unsanctioned consequences: the widespread unrest and anti-police sentiment. Some of these consequences are pretty ugly, as we've seen with the executions. Then there's the ones within the police force we're not hearing about...those that're as sick of the higher-ups' ******** as the rest of us. The sanctioned consequences come when the ones in power effect change that removes the morally bankrupt individuals' ability to hide from the consequences of their apathy. I still don't believe that the "system" is what's at fault here...again, blame the humans behind it all. They're the ones who call the shots at the end of the day.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Well, they're dealing with unsanctioned consequences: the widespread unrest and anti-police sentiment. Some of these consequences are pretty ugly, as we've seen with the executions. Then there's the ones within the police force we're not hearing about...those that're as sick of the higher-ups' ******** as the rest of us. The sanctioned consequences come when the ones in power effect change that removes the morally bankrupt individuals' ability to hide from the consequences of their apathy. I still don't believe that the "system" is what's at fault here...again, blame the humans behind it all. They're the ones who call the shots at the end of the day.

I think you're conflating two different things.

Systematic failings allow morally upright people to do bad things too. Look at Congress, everybody agrees spending is out of control and special pet projects/pork barrels are apart of yet. Yet, even the Senators and Representatives people consider not jerks take part in it. Cause they want their special projects to get through when they know it wouldn't otherwise.

The system doesn't just stand cause the "good people do nothing." It's because the good people have sometimes figured out how the system benefits them.

So you have people outside of the system's direct benefits ie. American citizens(to government) or minorities(to police) who don't like the system as is getting met with resistance, not just from the higher-ups being jerks, but from the better officials who prefer the system as is simply because it works in a weird way.

 

[Victarion]

^Nice post. I'd have to know what the special projects are...do they benefit and the individual's voters? If so, great! If its simply there to benefit the politicians, then I'd have to again lay the blame at the doorstep of the politicians. Ditto for the people who're obstructing changes to the system that others are calling for. They've decide to act in a way that throws out any sense of morality simply because they can. You have these individuals manipulating the system, in which case the system is neither good nor bad...its a tool that may be used however the user pleases.

Drawing it all together, the root of the problem is the individuals in power that decide to use the system to their advantage in a way that is inexcusable. Its these individuals that are the failing and need to be dealt with at the ballot box.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

Were these people caught on film strangling a man to death?

Were these people brought before a grand jury that decided not to indite them? Not convict them of a crime, simply indite them, even though grand juries almost always hand down indigtmrnts and almost always decide the way the prosecutor wants them to.

Are criminals who definitely committed crimes brought before a grand jury that decide not to indict them?

YES, happens all the time. In fact, a lot of the times the States Attorney/Prosecutor decides to not even present them to a grand jury and the Prosecutor makes the decision not to indict criminals.

1: So are you just going to ignore the fact that police who abuse their power often don't face consequences? That systemic problem doesn'tatter to you?

I posted this on page 2 of this thread, I'll repost it again...

Negative.

Cops get caught committing crimes, arrested, indicted, found guilty, fired, sentence to prison time... all the time. It's a constant fact of life, and in a lot of cases, police officers do face harsher penalties and get less breaks because the system tries to set an example of them.

How do I know this?

Because I'm a cop and I work in the criminal justice system (in some county in some state I won't mention)...

What do you know?

I'll tell you what you know... only what the media tells you. The media is not going to report on every cop who is being indicted or facing charges or canned from his/her job. Why? Because it's not interesting enough news to boost ratings, and the media (national, even local) won't report it.

But trust me, cops get caught and charged. You just don't hear about it.

Do crooked cops sometimes get away with things? Of course.

But do criminals sometimes get away with things too?

YES. YES.

and

YES.

I think you, again, are looking at a couple of cases where cops were not indicted and you now think cops get off all the time without consequences and the system is rigged in their favor. But that's just not true.

One of my buddies got indicted (for something minor, I felt, hell, a simple apology from the officer to the criminal would have sufficed), but the prosecutor wanted to make an example out of him... so now he's fired and facing a possible civil trial and the federal civil rights abuse charges (he's an African American officer, by the way)....

The Question...Do you work in law enforcement or the criminal justice system? Or do you just scan the internet for articles on bad cops and come to the conclusion cops get away with everything....

I work in the CJ system and I see cops getting in trouble all the time... there's another cop I used to work with who definitely did something ******ed and he's now suspended and most likely not getting his job back. But what he did was definitely stupid so I can't defend him. I've worked with 2 other officers who were fired as well. Did the news report it? No way. The news doesn't cover these things all the time.

 

[Asgard]

Lol, wow.

 

[Howlett]

Oh great, more riots...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/24/justice/missouri-officer-involved-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Police: Officer fatally shoots armed man in town near Ferguson, Missouri



An 18-year-old male held a gun "straight out" at a Berkeley, Missouri, police officer before that officer fired "what we think ... were three shots," St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said Thursday. The man -- who died after being shot by the officer --- is not believed to have fired any shots himself, according to Belmar.


Protesters gathered around an ethnically diverse group of dozens of police officers, who stood between them and the scene. People in the crowd screamed at police. Others spoke more calmly.
St. Louis Post-Dispatch photographer David Carson told CNN's Hala Gorani that some of the protesters damaged police cars. CNN showed images of one squad car with a large dent in its side.


Police and demonstrators briefly scuffled.
"At one point, an explosive device, like a large firecracker or firework, was thrown into the middle of the fight and exploded. That kind of scattered a lot of people," Carson said.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

http://www.policeone.com/ferguson/articles/8036303-Police-Mo-officer-fatally-shoots-man-who-pulled-gun

Orlando Brown, 36, of nearby St. Charles was among the protesters. He said he didn't have all the details about the shooting but said he wondered if it was a case of police aggression.

"I understand police officers have a job and have an obligation to go home to their families at the end of the night," he said. "But do you have to treat every situation with lethal force? ... It's not a racial issue, or black or white. It's wrong or right."

Wow, I just cannot understand the rationale or what is going on inside their head. A guy pulls a gun on an officer and points it at him, and the officer pulling out his gun and shooting first to ensure his survival before the suspect pulls his trigger is considered "police aggression" and protesters ask "do you have to treat every situation with lethal force?"

Thoughts and prayers with the officer who had this traumatic event occur to him. I'm sure his life flashed before his eyes when someone in his community who he is there to serve decided to pull a gun on him and threaten his life.

I hope and I'm sure that officer went home and hugged his family extra tight that night.

 

[Howlett]

Yeah, this is a case of stupid protesters protesting for something they don't know about or care about the details.

If pointing a gun at an officer(or anyone for that matter) isn't justifiable self defense, then nothing is.

 

[Schlosser85]

He said he didn't have all the details about the shooting but said he wondered if it was a case of police aggression.

"I don't know what happened, but I'm gonna protest something, damn it!"

 

[Immortalfire]

He's another example of how 99% of these protesters care nothing about facts.

 

[Schlosser85]

"Watch the news, kids, Daddy's gonna be on TV!"

 

[Howlett]

Oh good, his parents are delusional and fueling the fire too. I'm sorry for their loss, but I'm getting real tired of this BS excuse making for criminals and blaming officers.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...2-b5dd-66f5d36c6fba.html#.VJrY17ufZS4.twitter

"This doesn't make any sense for them to kill my son like this," Toni Martin-Green said early Wednesday from her home located near the University of Missouri-St. Louis campus. "I am trying to be calm."
She said initial video provided by police didn't offer enough information to answer her questions.



"He was not a violent person, to our knowledge," he added. "Around us there weren't any pistols. It's hard to believe that."

Police say the man shot had a criminal record, with charges including three assaults, armed robbery, armed criminal action and multiple uses of weapons since he was 17.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

Oh good, his parents are delusional and fueling the fire too. I'm sorry for their loss, but I'm getting real tired of this BS excuse making for criminals and blaming officers.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...2-b5dd-66f5d36c6fba.html#.VJrY17ufZS4.twitter

"This doesn't make any sense for them to kill my son like this," Toni Martin-Green said early Wednesday from her home located near the University of Missouri-St. Louis campus. "I am trying to be calm."
She said initial video provided by police didn't offer enough information to answer her questions.



"He was not a violent person, to our knowledge," he added. "Around us there weren't any pistols. It's hard to believe that."

Police say the man shot had a criminal record, with charges including three assaults, armed robbery, armed criminal action and multiple uses of weapons since he was 17.

Not surprising at all.

I'm glad that this article had quotes from the mother and then ended with the facts about his criminal record. I wish all news reports did that. Honestly, I'm tired of the news interviewing the thug's mother. It's so predictable and the news only does it to increase the emotional response the news story will receive. The mother always states her son is the greatest thing since slice bread... at least this article does the right thing and totally contradicts her by showing his record displays him as a violent person.... 3 assaults, armed robbery, multiple weapon offenses. I'm tired of hearing from the mom in these types of stories. Where is the story where the criminal's mom or dad is interviewed and they state "yes, our son is a criminal with violent tendencies, we've tried helping him, but he never accepted our help." ????

 

[Schlosser85]

I can understand parents instinctively want to defend their child and believe the best of them, and maybe even be in denial about what they're really like, but there comes a point when you have to face the truth and stop trying to blame a cop who did nothing but defend himself when your son pointed a gun at him.

And the people protesting as clear-cut a case of self-defense and justifiable use of lethal force as you could ask for are just making themselves look like clueless idiots who have no idea what they're even protesting, or else just racists who automatically blame the white cop no matter what happened.

 

[Schlosser85]

I mean, that quote from Orlando Brown says it all. He admits he doesn't have the details, but he goes on this speech against "police aggression".

We're not dealing with the best and brightest here.

 

[Victarion]

"I don't know what happened, but I'm gonna protest something, damn it!"

In this case, he's protesting common sense.

 

[Schlosser85]

This whole thing reminds me of a Facebook group I saw once that was parodying all the activist ones. Its title was "An Arbitrary Number of People Demanding That Some Sort of Action Be Taken".

 

[bullets]

The level of ignorance among these protestors is astounding. We're never going to get anywhere. People need to stop playing into the media's desire to create a race war. I read the big bold headline on yahoo this morning. They are hoping people don't read the article and jump to conclusions. Good for them. More will die.

 

[Immortalfire]

Oh good, his parents are delusional and fueling the fire too. I'm sorry for their loss, but I'm getting real tired of this BS excuse making for criminals and blaming officers.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...2-b5dd-66f5d36c6fba.html#.VJrY17ufZS4.twitter

"This doesn't make any sense for them to kill my son like this," Toni Martin-Green said early Wednesday from her home located near the University of Missouri-St. Louis campus. "I am trying to be calm."
She said initial video provided by police didn't offer enough information to answer her questions.



"He was not a violent person, to our knowledge," he added. "Around us there weren't any pistols. It's hard to believe that."

Police say the man shot had a criminal record, with charges including three assaults, armed robbery, armed criminal action and multiple uses of weapons since he was 17.

It doesn't sound that hard to believe.

 

[Schlosser85]

The level of ignorance among these protestors is astounding. We're never going to get anywhere. People need to stop playing into the media's desire to create a race war. I read the big bold headline on yahoo this morning. They are hoping people don't read the article and jump to conclusions. Good for them. More will die.

As much as I'm against media censorship, sometimes I wish some of these news outlets could be charged with inciting violence.