Riots in Missouri - Part 3

[Kar]

I'm not even for the body cameras anymore. I signed the petition for them but after seeing Eric Garner, Tamir Rice and John Crawford's murders on tape with no consequences for the cops, they can keep that ****. Body cams are just gonna allow us to see the police brutality in HD now.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Special courts for cops might be worth considering.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm not even for the body cameras anymore. I signed the petition for them but after seeing Eric Garner, Tamir Rice and John Crawford's murders on tape with no consequences for the cops, they can keep that ****. Body cams are just gonna allow us to see the police brutality in HD now.

Sometimes cameras help the victim get justice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/sean-groubert-fired-arrested_n_5879694.html

 

[The Question]

The cameras won't fix the problem, and there's an enormous problem in thinking that they will. But, they will also help to alleviate the problem somewhat while we work towards a more long-term solution.

 

[Kelly]

Special courts for cops might be worth considering.

They already exist, its called "Internal Affairs".

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The cameras won't fix the problem, and there's an enormous problem in thinking that they will. But, they will also help to alleviate the problem somewhat while we work towards a more long-term solution.

I've yet to hear a solution that realistic changes police behavior on a long-term basis.

In a place where police wore body cams, use of force went down 60%.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/what-happens-when-police-officers-wear-body-cameras-1408320244

 

[Kelly]

The body cams have proven themselves already to be of great help. As for the 3 cases mentioned above, I think the odds of the cameras making a positive difference is still too great to be thrown out.

 

[The Question]

They already exist, its called "Internal Affairs".

Special courts for cops that aren't run by other cops is I think what he meant.

 

[Schlosser85]

Special courts for cops might be worth considering.

I don't like this. They're not above the same laws as the rest of us, or shouldn't be, even if some of them think they are.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I think they should be held to higher standards, and face severer penalties. Right now we have the opposite.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I just don't see the system ever being tough on cops, not even bad cops.

The system and cops have a symbiotic relationship so cops get the perk of having little accountability for public grievances and the system remains well protected.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

I just don't see the system ever being tough on cops, not even bad cops.

The system and cops have a symbiotic relationship so cops get the perk of having little accountability for public grievances and the system remains well protected.

Negative.

Cops get caught committing crimes, arrested, indicted, found guilty, fired, sentence to prison time... all the time. It's a constant fact of life, and in a lot of cases, police officers do face harsher penalties and get less breaks because the system tries to set an example of them.

How do I know this?

Because I'm a cop and I work in the criminal justice system (in some county in some state I won't mention)...

What do you know?

I'll tell you what you know... only what the media tells you. The media is not going to report on every cop who is being indicted or facing charges or canned from his/her job. Why? Because it's not interesting enough news to boost ratings, and the media (national, not local) won't report it.

But trust me, cops get caught and charged. You just don't hear about it.

Do crooked cops sometimes get away with things? Of course.

But do criminals sometimes get away with things too?

YES. YES.

and

YES.

 

[Tempest]

Thank you for your service.

 

[Kelly]

Special courts for cops that aren't run by other cops is I think what he meant.

haha....ask most cops, they don't see IA as cops, or cops that have their backs.

 

[terry78]

I confess it's easy to go on the somewhat hipsterish "**** the police" tirade unless you've actually been one or know one. I got a cousin that's a cop and he's got stories, man. I don't agree with the **** that's been happening as of late, but I get both sides. It's actually gotten to the point now that it's no longer cool to want to become a cop.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Negative.

Cops get caught committing crimes, arrested, indicted, found guilty, fired, sentence to prison time... all the time. It's a constant fact of life, and in a lot of cases, police officers do face harsher penalties and get less breaks because the system tries to set an example of them.

How do I know this?

Because I'm a cop and I work in the criminal justice system (in some county in some state I won't mention)...

What do you know?

I'll tell you what you know... only what the media tells you. The media is not going to report on every cop who is being indicted or facing charges or canned from his/her job. Why? Because it's not interesting enough news to boost ratings, and the media (national, not local) won't report it.

But trust me, cops get caught and charged. You just don't hear about it.

Do crooked cops sometimes get away with things? Of course.

But do criminals sometimes get away with things too?

YES. YES.

and

YES.

Yeah, I guess only a cop can make a valid complaint how the system is biased in favor of the police. Though I'm not certain you would yield your position to some rogue cop who thought the system was biased in favor of cops.

But I'm going to avoid using media coverage (like Eric Garner or Rodney King) and go straight for statistics since the outcome of these high profile cases are magically decided by the media themselves.

Here's statistical data on the NYPD.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/downloads/pdf/2013 Statistical Appendix_Rev1.pdf

On table 24B it shows only 3% of complaints against police result in charges.

So either 97% of complaints against NY police are complete lies or there's a systematic problem.

 

[chamber-music]

I've got a number of friends who are cops and have friends who come from cop families. I've heard plenty of horrific and hilarious stories.

 

[Erzengel]

Yeah, I guess only a cop can make a valid complaint how the system is biased in favor of the police. Though I'm not certain you would yield your position to some rogue cop who thought the system was biased in favor of cops.

But I'm going to avoid using media coverage (like Eric Garner or Rodney King) and go straight for statistics since the outcome of these high profile cases are magically decided by the media themselves.

Here's statistical data on the NYPD.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/downloads/pdf/2013 Statistical Appendix_Rev1.pdf

On table 24B it shows only 3% of complaints against police result in charges.

So either 97% of complaints against NY police are complete lies or there's a systematic problem.

Or C, people who are complaining because they get issued tickets?

One of my closest friend's a cop and he's had complaints against him and it's because someone doesn't like that they were issued a citation or a ticket for something they did wrong.

 

[Tempest]

I'm missing the 3%. I see that in 2013, 6.3% resulted in charges, and that 8.7% of the charges were substantiated.

A large majority of the cases were found to be unsubstantiated, which I don't find strange at all. As Erzengel said, a lot of people complain because they're mad.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm missing the 3%. I see that in 2013, 6.3% resulted in charges, and that 8.7% of the charges were substantiated.

A large majority of the cases were found to be unsubstantiated, which I don't find strange at all. As Erzengel said, a lot of people complain because they're mad.

Even if you had a valid complaint, without audio/video evidence who do you think the investigator is going to side with, you or the cop?

Now ask yourself how many complaints are backed by video or audio.

 

[Tempest]

And I agree, the number should be higher. Putting cameras on police (that preferably can't be shut off at will) will help not only convict officers, but prevent these altercations from happening.

However, I'm greatly concerned that the current attitude people have is that they should be able to do whatever they want to officers, and should be expected to be excused for their behavior because of whatever the excuse of the day is.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

And I agree, the number should be higher. Putting cameras on police (that preferably can't be shut off at will) will help not only convict officers, but prevent these altercations from happening.

However, I'm greatly concerned that the current attitude people have is that they should be able to do whatever they want to officers, and should be expected to be excused for their behavior because of whatever the excuse of the day is.

Most people just want to go home every night and walk on eggshells when stopped by the police.

Sure some people catch an attitude with the police but it's not like those people scare the police away with their tails between their legs.

It's much more likely the cop will ruin the rowdy suspect's year with an arrest record.

 

[Tempest]

Most people just want to go home every night and walk on eggshells when stopped by the police.

Sure some people catch an attitude with the police but it's not like those people scare the police away with their tails between their legs.

It's much more likely the cop will ruin the rowdy suspect's year with an arrest record.

I'm sorry, who is responsible for what now?

Entitlement.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm sorry, who is responsible for what now?

Entitlement.

Who said anything about entitlement?

I'm saying most people walk on eggshells around cops and those who give the cops too much trouble are awarded with an arrest record.

Cops have plenty of power. They're not the helpless victims in most encounters.

 

[Howlett]

Who said anything about entitlement?

I'm saying most people walk on eggshells around cops and those who give the cops too much trouble are awarded with an arrest record.

Cops have plenty of power. They're not the helpless victims in most encounters.

You seem to be saying that someone harassing a cop(giving them trouble), doesn't DESERVE to be arrested for their crappy behavior?

I can only imagine how someone who "gives the cops too much trouble," acts towards normal people when there are likely to be no consequences at all for their behavior.