Riots in Missouri - Part 3

[Thundercrack85]

I think my issue with the way you all are throwing the word "thug" around is because most of you on here are using it as justification for their deaths. "He was a thug with a rap sheet" and blah blah blah as such. It just really sucks that the last and only video image of Mike Brown that day was the corner store robbery because now he's going to forever be looked at as a thug or criminal despite having no record. The kid has pics of him in graduation gowns and holding children and for all we know he is usually a cool guy but with that one image of him pushing the store owner aside he'll forever be labeled that. That's my issue with the way everyone is using the word.

EDIT: And basically what Docker had to say

Well, you judge a person by their actions. I mean, we've all done stuff we're not particularly proud of, but robbing a store isn't exactly a normal youthful indiscretion.

I do find it curious that Brown has no record. It's not like you just one day decide after a lifetime of being a "gentle giant" decide to rob a store. Then again, the owner of this store didn't file a police report, so who knows how often this happens.

 

[Docker2.0]

Well, you judge a person by their actions. I mean, we've all done stuff we're not particularly proud of, but robbing a store isn't exactly a normal youthful indiscretion.

I do find it curious that Brown has no record. It's not like you just one day decide after a lifetime of being a "gentle giant"*to rob a store. Then again, the owner of this store didn't file a police report, so who knows how often this happens.

Wait, what?! I thought Brown had a record and didn't the store owner called the police?

 

[RockSP]

Well, you judge a person by their actions. I mean, we've all done stuff we're not particularly proud of, but robbing a store isn't exactly a normal youthful indiscretion.

Yeah, right. Kids steal stuff from convenience stores all the time.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Yeah, right. Kids steal stuff from convenience stores all the time.

Well, the ones who end up in juvie, maybe. Do they also manhandle clerks?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Wait, what?! I thought Brown had a record and didn't the store owner called the police?

Oh. So he did. Interesting.

No, one of the customers in the store called the police.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

^Nice post. I'd have to know what the special projects are...do they benefit and the individual's voters? If so, great! If its simply there to benefit the politicians, then I'd have to again lay the blame at the doorstep of the politicians. Ditto for the people who're obstructing changes to the system that others are calling for. They've decide to act in a way that throws out any sense of morality simply because they can. You have these individuals manipulating the system, in which case the system is neither good nor bad...its a tool that may be used however the user pleases.

Drawing it all together, the root of the problem is the individuals in power that decide to use the system to their advantage in a way that is inexcusable. Its these individuals that are the failing and need to be dealt with at the ballot box.

Not really, the individuals are always changing. DeBlasio, Koch, Guilianni, Clinton, Obama, Gingrich, Paul, Cruz, etc. If the individual had power, then the system would waiver with large changes in policy or governing.

The system is self-sustaining.

It morphs unless everyone is on the same page about not letting it happen and why it happened. Slavery ended but the country wasn't really into actually giving full rights/desegregation with slaves if it meant fighting again with the governments in the South so it just morphed into Jim Crow. A quasi slavery where now you can take the white owner to court but your word doesn't mean as much.

 

[RockSP]

Well, the ones who end up in juvie, maybe.

You can't be serious.

Do they also manhandle clerks?

No, most probably don't.

 

[Docker2.0]

Oh. So he did. Interesting.

No, one of the customers in the store called the police.

I honestly don't know either way. I assumed he did because like you said, you don't just walk into a store and rob it out of the blue unless it's part of your regular routine. If you are right then my gawd! I've been on the wrong side of this the whole time. I always thought he was a knucklehead and got what he deserved because of the video but man I will have to rethink my ideology if that's not the case.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Well, you judge a person by their actions. I mean, we've all done stuff we're not particularly proud of, but robbing a store isn't exactly a normal youthful indiscretion.

What was Michael Brown's grades in school? Was he in any clubs? What schools was he applying for after high school?

It's all nice to say, judge by actions, but many aren't even looking for a full picture of the kid.


It's like the video makes anything about him that doesn't apply to the image of him robbing that store doesn't make sense. You can be a "gentle giant" and an jerk. The same way you can be a comic nerd and not a 40 year-old virgin in glasses.

 

[Doctor Evo]

Yeah, right. Kids steal stuff from convenience stores all the time.

I think we're confusing terms here. Robbery and theft carry two very different connotations, in my view. Am I mistaken?

What is the technical difference?

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I think we're confusing terms here. Robbery and theft carry two very different connotations, in my view. Am I mistaken?

What is the technical difference?

They're similar but one key difference I've found is that while theft is just plain stealing, robbery is stealing with the offender either using or threatening violence against the victim.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

1: They should always be on.

2: It doesn't explain why they left him on the ground to die for an hour and didn't allow him to receive medical attention for his wounds.

Dash cams inside police cruiser do not always have to be on. I don't know any police department with that policy. Dash cams in police cruisers are typically required to be on during traffic stops and pursuits and prisoner transports. Typically, dash cams are activated when an officer driving turns on his emergency light bar, so if the officer was just pulling up to a business and getting out of his cruiser to check on it, there's no reason why he would activate his light bar and thus his dash cam.

We don't know why he didn't activate his body cam. There could be a number of reasons. Perhaps it was full and needed old footage to be downloaded and reset, or a malfunction, or who knows. Doesn't matter. The CCTV at the business caught the whole thing on camera any ways.

What article did you read stated that the PD and FD let the suspect bleed out and die? So you're telling me there's a credible news source article out there that states the suspect had suffered a gunshot wound that produced such a slow-bleed that he sat there conscious and breathing and bleeding out for an hour?

Please produce this credible news article.

Thanks.

 

[Tempest]

What was Michael Brown's grades in school? Was he in any clubs? What schools was he applying for after high school?

It's all nice to say, judge by actions, but many aren't even looking for a full picture of the kid.


It's like the video makes anything about him that doesn't apply to the image of him robbing that store doesn't make sense. You can be a "gentle giant" and an jerk. The same way you can be a comic nerd and not a 40 year-old virgin in glasses.

Are you looking at the full picture? Did you watch the video of him stealing from that store?

Did you look at Eric Garner's criminal history?

Come on.

It's very sad that these men died, but I'm not going to pretend that at the time of their deaths, they were engaged in behavior that would qualify as 'good'.

 

[Ilikecomics123]

I think we're confusing terms here. Robbery and theft carry two very different connotations, in my view. Am I mistaken?

What is the technical difference?

Robbery is like a merging of assault and theft into one crime.

Robbery is theft with force or the threat of force.

If you walk into a store, take a cigarello, and walks out without payment, it's a theft.

If you walk into a store, take a cigarello, don't pay for it, and the store owner/clerk confronts you and you push him into a rack of other merchandise, it's now a robbery (strong arm... not an armed robbery since no weapon was used).

If you drop their cell phone on the ground and a suspect picks it up, and you say "hey, let me get my cellphone back" and the suspect pulls out a gun, or knife, and points it at you, and says "get back, it's mine now"... robbery (armed - no force used but there was the threat of force).

 

[Ilikecomics123]

I'd just like to point out something...

I heard from reliable sources that the Metropolitan Police Department (DC's police), responded to 6 confirmed shootings tonight, Christmas Eve.

Two involved officers shooting back at suspects who committed violent crimes. One of those the details are still developing but a handgun was taken from the suspect. The other the police are stating the suspect shot at them, they shot back, and a handgun was retrieved from the suspect.

The other four shootings involved people shooting at other people.

All this on Christmas Eve.

This is the type of madness that officers go into... they kiss their kids goodnight and tell them Santa will be there by morning and they'll be home to open presents with them...

... they go to work on Christmas Eve... and their city has 6 shootings.

Ridiculous.

We need to start blaming the criminals and not the cops.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Are you looking at the full picture? Did you watch the video of him stealing from that store?

Did you look at Eric Garner's criminal history?

Come on.

It's very sad that these men died, but I'm not going to pretend that at the time of their deaths, they were engaged in behavior that would qualify as 'good'.

What did Eric Garner ever do to warrant being strangled to death?

If the punishment doesn't fit the crime then there's something wrong with the law enforcement or justice system, not the suspect.

Obviously when you kill a person who didn't deserve to die there should be some kind of punishment. If not prison then at least you get fired.

But to kill someone who didn't deserve to die with zero consequences? What message does that send to the community?

 

[Howlett]

Are you looking at the full picture? Did you watch the video of him stealing from that store?

Did you look at Eric Garner's criminal history?

Come on.

It's very sad that these men died, but I'm not going to pretend that at the time of their deaths, they were engaged in behavior that would qualify as 'good'.

It's funny, well it's not funny, but it's ironic that the same people who get mad and call someone a racist for pointing out these guys' criminal backgrounds turn around and slander the police for being corrupt trigger happy racists and try to bring up their backgrounds(and I have yet to see one officer with any questionable history as opposed to the suspects who were shot).

It's insane and based on nothing but misplaced anger.

 

[-Arya-]

I saw the video with Eric Garner, and I'm completely puzzled as to why that choke was applied. The officer used excessive force. There was simply no need for it. Plain and simple.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'd just like to point out something...

I heard from reliable sources that the Metropolitan Police Department (DC's police), responded to 6 confirmed shootings tonight, Christmas Eve.

Two involved officers shooting back at suspects who committed violent crimes. One of those the details are still developing but a handgun was taken from the suspect. The other the police are stating the suspect shot at them, they shot back, and a handgun was retrieved from the suspect.

The other four shootings involved people shooting at other people.

All this on Christmas Eve.

This is the type of madness that officers go into... they kiss their kids goodnight and tell them Santa will be there by morning and they'll be home to open presents with them...

... they go to work on Christmas Eve... and their city has 6 shootings.

Ridiculous.

We need to start blaming the criminals and not the cops.

Criminals are not entrusted with the power and responsibility of a police officer.

Criminals are punished to the full extent of the law when they hurt people.

But what about the police officer who choked a man to death for selling cigarettes? Where's the responsibility? Where's the punishment?

 

[The Question]

What article did you read stated that the PD and FD let the suspect bleed out and die? So you're telling me there's a credible news source article out there that states the suspect had suffered a gunshot wound that produced such a slow-bleed that he sat there conscious and breathing and bleeding out for an hour?

Please produce this credible news article.

Thanks.

1:

http://rt.com/news/217243-black-man-ferguson-police/

2: What does him being conscious or not matter?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I saw the video with Eric Garner, and I'm completely puzzled as to why that choke was applied. The officer used excessive force. There was simply no need for it. Plain and simple.

The choke hold is also illegal.

So an illegal choke hold is applied, a man who didn't want to be arrested is killed, and the cop goes home and enjoys dinner with his family.

Can a non-cop or non-soldier get away with killing someone who didn't deserve to die?

Why or why not?

 

[The Question]

I'd just like to point out something...

I heard from reliable sources that the Metropolitan Police Department (DC's police), responded to 6 confirmed shootings tonight, Christmas Eve.

Two involved officers shooting back at suspects who committed violent crimes. One of those the details are still developing but a handgun was taken from the suspect. The other the police are stating the suspect shot at them, they shot back, and a handgun was retrieved from the suspect.

The other four shootings involved people shooting at other people.

All this on Christmas Eve.

This is the type of madness that officers go into... they kiss their kids goodnight and tell them Santa will be there by morning and they'll be home to open presents with them...

... they go to work on Christmas Eve... and their city has 6 shootings.

Ridiculous.

We need to start blaming the criminals and not the cops.

But what about when the cops are to blame?

Sure, their jobs are potentially dangerous. But abuses of power cannot be tolerated at all, not can instances where those who abuse their power are not held accountable by the system.

 

[Gr0oT]

I think part of the reason he choked was the position they put him in. Usually you need to put a person on their side, face down is probably the worse. That said you shouldn't resist arrest even if you feel you are being unjustly targeted. Especially if you're a giant and have a long criminal history. Most of these men make poor martyrs.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think part of the reason he choked was the position they put him in. Usually you need to put a person on their side, face down is probably the worse. That said you shouldn't resist arrest even if you feel you are being unjustly targeted. Especially if you're a giant and have a long criminal history. Most of these men make poor martyrs.

Well if there's justice for imperfect people then that means the rest of us perfect people are guaranteed our rights.

That's the whole point of rallying behind flawed people.

 

[PacificBoy]

1:

http://rt.com/news/217243-black-man-ferguson-police/

It's still "according to bystanders", still unsubstantiated. We need to wait for the forensic evidence to bear this out. It's right to protest the injustice, the failings of an institution in dire need of reform, but we can't go around calling for responsibility and accountability in Eric Garner's case (the right call IMO) while irresponsibly taking a claim as fact and major talking point.

Doing so only weakens the legitimacy of the protest. The dangerous spreading of a false narrative based on hearsay can already be seen in the same case with 'Jesus Christo' on Twitter claiming he was the best friend on the scene. The Huffington Post carelessly ran with it before verifying because they had an awesome newsbite.

That said, the Eric Garner story seems much more open-and-shut. An unwarranted, excessive, illegal chokehold was applied, and Daniel Pantaleo is still on the payroll as a police officer (correct me if I'm wrong)?