Riots in Missouri - Part 3

[Howlett]

I think MLK would disapprove of looting and rioting but also denounce many of the police tactics and abusive practices.

As far as black youth "pulling up their pants and learning to speak English" this is a conflict between culture and assimilation. Yeah some of the black youth culture is flat out stupid but complete assimilation is not really an option either.

These black youth need an identity separate from white suburbia. As with any subculture some traditions seem ignorant or silly but they must evolve without some outside influence co-opting it.

That defeats the point of having your own cultural identity and whites instructing blacks how to behave will only strengthen their resolve to keep rebellious costums ingrained within the subculture.

But it is a constant cycle. Blacks rebels against white institutions because of racism and whites justify their racist beliefs because of this rebellion.

I'm not sure the cycle will ever end. Both sides have their heels dug in pretty deep.

It's more like if white kids embraced serial killers, and no one called them out for it.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Quite frankly, responsibility has to be taken on both sides.

Police corruption and brutality should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

But at the same time, there comes a time when the lower class urban black community needs to man up and pull their kids' pants up, teach them to speak English, and stop blaming whitey or the cops for when their hoodlum son pulls a gun on a cop and big surprise, gets shot.

This goes both ways.

You can't blame others for all of eternity for the state of your neighborhood if you want to improve yourselves.

And what about policies that keep "those people" in those neighborhoods?

How many times have an upper middle-class neighborhood rejected lower income housing in their neighborhoods cause it would "lower their property value." A.k.A white flight then gentrification? Or how about letting more schools shuttle in lower income students instead of some upper-middle class families and government funding poorer schools with less money?

Why would this kids spend eight hours a day in a school with mold and no heat then think someone like Ilikecomics123 deserves their respect (he is being a good cop.)?

You talk about getting those black kids to speak English? How about giving them someone to look up to in pop culture that isn't glorified ghettoism?

The next time people are arguing about rebooting Peter Parker for the third time instead of putting a positive role model like Miles Morales on screen once and show him working with the police and doing the right thing and staying in school then we can reach more of those kids.

 

[Erzengel]

Yeah didn't they say that Seattle Seahawk QB Russel Wilson wasn't black enough?

 

[Kar]

Quite frankly, responsibility has to be taken on both sides.

Police corruption and brutality should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

But at the same time, there comes a time when the lower class urban black community needs to man up and pull their kids' pants up, teach them to speak English, and stop blaming whitey or the cops for when their hoodlum son pulls a gun on a cop and big surprise, gets shot.

This goes both ways.

You can't blame others for all of eternity for the state of your neighborhood if you want to improve yourselves.

Martin Luther King did not sit around on his ass saying welp, The Man keeps me down, so I'm gonna just sit here and shut up.

He also didn't go around blaming white people for every problem ever like his bastard children Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

He got people off their ass, united, and proactive without setting cars on fire or looting stores.

And frankly I think he'd be pretty sad at a lot of what he'd see today.

Can't tell if I'm reading a direct quote from Bill Cosby or not. This right here is an issue I'm also tired of reading. I will agree that its hard to feel sorry for someone who experienced a form of police brutality doing boneheaded moves, but again like the Julia Shields link I posted earlier, the problem is we're not seeing the same level of restraint. I'm not exactly saying "why don't we get to get away with pointing guns at cops like white people?" its more so "why do we get killed just for looking suspicious while there are people getting away with this?" This whole notion of us having to pull up our pants and speaking correct English is just ludicrous cause that will not stop a cop from harassing you or profiling you if he wants to. That's something that really needs to be left out of these discussions cause once again its placing victims accountable for their deaths with dumb unrelated ****.

And people just LOVE to bring up MLK and what he would think of everything today. It's so annoying.

 

[Kelly]

I see where you are coming from, but I think what Schlosser is saying is what you have in bold, is not being discussed within the black community to any great degree whatsoever, and as soon as it is brought up in the media racism is called on the person. Yes of course restraint needs to be shown on all sides, that is a given, but until some of the core issues are brought into the sunlight, all the restraint in the world from the police isn't going to help. What is in bold up there is not just something that is seen from a cops perspective. The perspective that "all authority" is out to get me is not a perspective built ONLY from the lack of restraint from police, yet that seems to be the ONLY thing that is allowed to be discussed out in the open. THAT is a problem. So, YES.....discuss restraint on all sides, YES, discuss police misconduct...YES, discuss why it seems that there are more black students being put into "disciplinary schools" than others....YES, DISCUSS ALL OF THOSE THINGS, but discuss ALL ASPECTS OF IT, not just the point of view that "everyone is out to get me, and THEY must change their attitude and conduct."

 

[SuperT]

Martin Luther King did not sit around on his ass saying welp, The Man keeps me down, so I'm gonna just sit here and shut up.

He also didn't go around blaming white people for every problem ever like his bastard children Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

He got people off their ass, united, and proactive without setting cars on fire or looting stores.

MLK would certainly disapprove of the looting and such but than again, he also had this perfect quote:

A riot is the language of the unheard.

 

[Schlosser85]

Can't tell if I'm reading a direct quote from Bill Cosby or not. This right here is an issue I'm also tired of reading. I will agree that its hard to feel sorry for someone who experienced a form of police brutality doing boneheaded moves, but again like the Julia Shields link I posted earlier, the problem is we're not seeing the same level of restraint. I'm not exactly saying "why don't we get to get away with pointing guns at cops like white people?" its more so "why do we get killed just for looking suspicious while there are people getting away with this?" This whole notion of us having to pull up our pants and speaking correct English is just ludicrous cause that will not stop a cop from harassing you or profiling you if he wants to. That's something that really needs to be left out of these discussions cause once again its placing victims accountable for their deaths with dumb unrelated ****.

And people just LOVE to bring up MLK and what he would think of everything today. It's so annoying.

Responsibility needs to be taken on BOTH sides, which as Kelly better articulated, was what I was trying to say in the first place, but if anyone mentions any problems within the black community, the racist card gets thrown around to censor that person while black leaders bury their heads in the sand, the so-called civil rights activists like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who are some of the worst things to ever happen to the black community just fan the flames of race division and teaching young blacks to blame everything on white people instead of being constructive and proactive in attempting to improve their own communities and neighborhoods, and black churches and religious figures spend their time either supporting Sharpton and Jackson or ranting about other scapegoats like gay marriage, as if it's a bigger threat to "family values" than the rate within the black community of single mothers who are teenagers themselves with growing numbers of children they can't pay for and being dependent on abusing the welfare system.

I know you don't want to hear any of this, probably especially coming from me, but the black community needs to deal with its own **** sooner or later.

And by no means are things like single mothers with passels of kids abusing welfare exclusive to the black community. Believe me, I worked for a year in a convenience store, and I saw it plenty from white people.

But problems don't cease to exist just because you don't want to hear about it.

 

[Kar]

I hear you. It is brought up within the black community though, but I honestly feel like its unnecessary. The people that do speak on it (for example *****es like Don Lemon) tackle the wrong issues and focus more so on appearance like baggy clothes and language than actual issues. All that other stuff is fashion. I can go from baggy, to fitting, to suit, to hood all in a day. I will cuss like a sailor/rapper then sound like Bryant Gumble next. Those things don't make or break who I am but there's this idea that these things do in fact break us and make us look less valuable when it honestly isn't even all that deep. I just got annoyed when I read "speak English".

Violence/gang violence within in the community and other issues should be touched on definitely, but all that other stuff? No, not relevant.

From within this thread and Twitter and other sites I've just seen people constantly say what victims shouldn't have been doing but I rarely see people say what the police that we're supposed to put trust in shouldn't have done and that bothers me because that makes whoever feels that way just as bad as the police and the people protecting them.

 

[SuperT]

I hear you. It is brought up within the black community though, but I honestly feel like its unnecessary. The people that do speak on it (for example *****es like Don Lemon) tackle the wrong issues and focus more so on appearance like baggy clothes and language than actual issues. All that other stuff is fashion. I can go from baggy, to fitting, to suit, to hood all in a day. I will cuss like a sailor/rapper then sound like Bryant Gumble next. Those things don't make or break who I am but there's this idea that these things do in fact break us and make us look less valuable when it honestly isn't even all that deep. I just got annoyed when I read "speak English".

Exactly. What we look like and wear has zero to do with anything and never truly has. MLK, Malcolm X and countless others from then until now were sharp dressers and guess what? They were still shot and killed, what we wear and how we talk don't matter.

People deserve respect just based on the simple fact that they are living, breathing human beings.

 

[terry78]

You can be a black dude that looks white collar as all ****, but if someone says you broke the law they won't even give you the benefit of the doubt more often than not.

 

[Kar]

Responsibility needs to be taken on BOTH sides, which as Kelly better articulated, was what I was trying to say in the first place, but if anyone mentions any problems within the black community, the racist card gets thrown around to censor that person while black leaders bury their heads in the sand, the so-called civil rights activists like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who are some of the worst things to ever happen to the black community just fan the flames of race division and teaching young blacks to blame everything on white people instead of being constructive and proactive in attempting to improve their own communities and neighborhoods, and black churches and religious figures spend their time either supporting Sharpton and Jackson or ranting about other scapegoats like gay marriage, as if it's a bigger threat to "family values" than the rate within the black community of single mothers who are teenagers themselves with growing numbers of children they can't pay for and being dependent on abusing the welfare system.

I know you don't want to hear any of this, probably especially coming from me, but the black community needs to deal with its own **** sooner or later.

And by no means are things like single mothers with passels of kids abusing welfare exclusive to the black community. Believe me, I worked for a year in a convenience store, and I saw it plenty from white people.

But problems don't cease to exist just because you don't want to hear about it.

Honestly I've never been the biggest Sharpton supporter but I can't deny a man who is using his voice in the right way somewhat. People have the idea that Al and Jessie just sit around telling the community to hate all white people and that's not true at all.

There's a lot that needs to be touched on within our own communities but not all communities, if that makes any sense. I hear white people throw out all these amazing ideas of how blacks can "turn things around" as if its that easy. All I ask is if these are sure fire plans, why not organize a group of people to just swoop on in and help everyone? Cause it doesn't work that way unfortunately.

 

[Kar]

Exactly. What we look like and wear has zero to do with anything and never truly has. MLK, Malcolm X and countless others from then until now were sharp dressers and guess what? They were still shot and killed, what we wear and how we talk don't matter.

Shot in suits. This is why I get so annoyed with the whole "what would MLK think?" He'd still think the same thing he thought back then and still get assassinated.

 

[RockSP]

Ultimately not everyone can have a balanced view of the police. Some will always support the police and others will always remain critical.

It's a necessary conflict that must exist to help our society find deeper truths and ultimately progress. We don't want to live in a society where no one scrutinized the police or everyone distrusted the police.

Anyone who ALWAYS supports the police is a psychopath. There's a ton of video evidence in the "abuse of power" thread on this forum alone to show that there are plenty of dirty cops out there. I honestly don't know what it will take for these "cops/the government/the system are infallible" types to wake up...

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

What bothers me is the zero sum attitude. You're either with them or against them. There's no compromise.

Asking questions, wanting officers to be held accountable for their actions, outrage over that horrible video of the chokehold...all of that means you hate the police, apparently. You're either pro-police or anti-police (a ****ing ******** argument, if I've ever heard any), and there's nothing in between. There's no room for dialogue because if you say something that sounds anywhere near being critical, you're now anti-police.

Where can both sides even start to come together when that's the atmosphere it's taking place?

 

[Kar]

Anyone who ALWAYS supports the police is a psychopath. There's a ton of video evidence in the "abuse of power" thread on this forum alone to show that there are plenty of dirty cops out there. I honestly don't know what it will take for these "cops/the government/the system are infallible" types to wake up...

They won't until it happens to them or someone close to them.

 

[Kelly]

I think a lot of people need to take a look in the mirror. Stop pointing the finger at everyone else and remember there are 3 fingers pointed back at themselves.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

While there are some cases of cop abuse, people can quickly gloss over the events of a particular case. We should be forming opinions on a case to case basis but some people tend to group them all together. Trayvon is not Garner or Brown, or the latest headline. Trayvon case wasn't even about cops. It was a neighborhood watch guy who took it upon himself to act as a cop.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I don't know. I can't imagine that if Zimmerman had shot dead a 17 year old unarmed white kid in a gated community that he would go home the same night.

I'm not even saying that Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin in cold blood, but the reaction from police would be quite different.

 

[chaseter]

It wouldn't have made the news I know that.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Local news, certainly.

 

[SuperT]

Probably not but I'd bet everything I owned that the outcome and public opinion would have been vastly different.

 

[Thundercrack85]

[YT]Ybvy_KOCtHI[/YT]

 

[Howlett]

Let the meaningless protests continue.

http://news.yahoo.com/man-tries-run-down-police-shoot-kill-him-000453476.html

UPPER DARBY, Pa. (AP) — A man who had posted an online video threatening to kill police and FBI agents tried to use his car to run down officers seeking to arrest him on Tuesday so, fearing for their lives, they shot and killed him, authorities said.
Police did not immediately identify the man, who was killed in Upper Darby, in suburban Philadelphia, as officers ordered him out of the car and he appeared ready to accelerate at them as they manned a blockade.
Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood said the officers feared the man would kill them and they "did what they had to do." He said five officers fired at the man and no officers were injured.
Police had secured an arrest warrant for the man after he threatened to kill police and FBI agents in the online video, Chitwood said. The man's death comes a little more than a week after a man who made similar threats shot two New York Police Department officers dead in their patrol car and then killed himself in a subway station.
Police said they began following the man after he left a home in nearby Clifton Heights. They said when officers stopped him at an intersection and ordered him out of the car, he reversed and slammed into a police vehicle and then prepared to run over other officers.
Officers opened fire, killing the man, Chitwood said. The man did not fire at police, and Chitwood said he did not know if the man had a weapon.
In the New York case, Officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu were ambushed on a Brooklyn street as they sat in their marked car on Dec. 20. Their attacker, Ismaaiyl Brinsley, had referenced in online posts the high-profile killings by white police officers of unarmed black men, specifically Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and Eric Garner on Staten Island. Soon after the officers' shooting Brinsley, who was black, killed himself.
Decisions by grand juries not to indict the officers involved in the killings of Brown and Garner have sparked protests around the nation, with demonstrators lying down in the streets as though they're dead. Many protesters have chanted "Hands up! Don't shoot!" a reference to their contention Brown's hands were raised when he was shot dead by police, and "I can't breathe," which Garner was heard saying on a video recording of his encounter with a policeman who put his arm around his neck.
On Sunday, two men opened fire on a police car patrolling a tough part of Los Angeles, but the two officers inside were not injured and one was able to shoot back, authorities said. One suspect was later arrested, and the other was on the loose. Police haven't determined a motive for the shooting in South Los Angeles, an area plagued by gang violence, but said there were no indications it was linked to other attacks on police.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Let the meaningless protests continue.

http://news.yahoo.com/man-tries-run-down-police-shoot-kill-him-000453476.html

UPPER DARBY, Pa. (AP) — A man who had posted an online video threatening to kill police and FBI agents tried to use his car to run down officers seeking to arrest him on Tuesday so, fearing for their lives, they shot and killed him, authorities said.
Police did not immediately identify the man, who was killed in Upper Darby, in suburban Philadelphia, as officers ordered him out of the car and he appeared ready to accelerate at them as they manned a blockade.
Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood said the officers feared the man would kill them and they "did what they had to do." He said five officers fired at the man and no officers were injured.
Police had secured an arrest warrant for the man after he threatened to kill police and FBI agents in the online video, Chitwood said. The man's death comes a little more than a week after a man who made similar threats shot two New York Police Department officers dead in their patrol car and then killed himself in a subway station.
Police said they began following the man after he left a home in nearby Clifton Heights. They said when officers stopped him at an intersection and ordered him out of the car, he reversed and slammed into a police vehicle and then prepared to run over other officers.
Officers opened fire, killing the man, Chitwood said. The man did not fire at police, and Chitwood said he did not know if the man had a weapon.
In the New York case, Officers Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu were ambushed on a Brooklyn street as they sat in their marked car on Dec. 20. Their attacker, Ismaaiyl Brinsley, had referenced in online posts the high-profile killings by white police officers of unarmed black men, specifically Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and Eric Garner on Staten Island. Soon after the officers' shooting Brinsley, who was black, killed himself.
Decisions by grand juries not to indict the officers involved in the killings of Brown and Garner have sparked protests around the nation, with demonstrators lying down in the streets as though they're dead. Many protesters have chanted "Hands up! Don't shoot!" a reference to their contention Brown's hands were raised when he was shot dead by police, and "I can't breathe," which Garner was heard saying on a video recording of his encounter with a policeman who put his arm around his neck.
On Sunday, two men opened fire on a police car patrolling a tough part of Los Angeles, but the two officers inside were not injured and one was able to shoot back, authorities said. One suspect was later arrested, and the other was on the loose. Police haven't determined a motive for the shooting in South Los Angeles, an area plagued by gang violence, but said there were no indications it was linked to other attacks on police.

Since he was armed with a deadly weapon (car), I doubt there will be much protest linked to this shooting.

People are protesting unarmed people being killed.

 

[chaseter]

Like that time that one MO teen tried to grab the officer's gun while resisting arrest?