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The Rise of Skywalker Rise of Skywalker Leaks and Spoilers thread

Bringing back Palpatine is what kills the movie to me. There's no justification for it.

So the message of the sequels is basically the last generation basically messes it up for the next one.

Agreed.

In ROTJ, we are left with the notion that Luke can resurrect the Jedi Order.

In TROS, the Jedi Order are left in no better shape than were at the end of ROTJ. Also, it doesn't even look like Rey plans on continuing on the legacy.

Hell, they don't even give a credible reason on why Rey wanted to learn the ways of the force from the start.
 
How is bringing Palpatine back killing this movie? In all honesty he was part of The original saga, The prequel saga. I find it kind of fitting he is in The sequel saga.

of course it is weird that he survived that fall. But looking at The screen he does not seem very alive to me. At least not a life worth living. Plus darth maul was cut in freaking half and returned.
And I really like how it leaves some things to my own imagination.

This does not mean that Anakin isnt The Chosen one anymore. He did bring balance to The Force.
 
Bringing back Palpatine is what kills the movie to me. There's no justification for it.
Palpatine was brought back because they wanted to tie everything back to first six films and make it be a conclusion to the entire saga. It makes sense, if you want to end the story of the Skywalkers that you bring back the main villain who essentially started it all to be the one that you end the saga with. It helps create a connection to the original trilogy, prequel trilogy, and the sequel trilogy. All the conflicts that we see transpire on every trilogy in the saga was the byproduct of one mastermind, and only when that mastermind is vanquished for good is when the saga is truly over.

Problem is it just feels like a desperate last-minute retcon to make up for the fact Snoke was killed. It’s to my understanding that J.J had the idea to bring back ol’ Sheev since the start but frankly I’d rather they have gone in a new direction. I wouldn’t have minded if Kylo had become the main antagonist but I feel both Abrams and Kennedy wanted a more sinister presence than Kylo who naturally was more suited to a Vader-like redemption.

Another problem is that and it makes the world smaller and boils down all the problems of the Galaxy to one guy(again).

It would’ve been better, imo, if Kylo had grown into a more fearsome foe between the end of TLJ and the next episode and he was portrayed as a lost cause that was beyond salvation. Him killing Snoke would solidify his turn to the dark side and he would train in order to possess powers that surpassed even Snoke and the Emperor. Last Jedi seemed to me to be setting up Ben as the final villain of the trilogy and it seemed to be the plan until it was decided to bring back the Emperor for one last hurrah.
 
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I'm having the worst luck with some of my favorite characters and their endings this year. First Jaime Lannister now this. :funny:
 
The Palpatine reveal never sat right with me from Celebration. Everyone's screaming "Yay, Palpatine!" And I'm like, what the hell, why? He's alive? Why?

Nostalgia.

It's literally the very (and only) foundations that this new trilogy is built on; capitalizing on nostalgia.

And it seems like they bury all of that, once and for all, by the end of this film.

Honestly, I could have a easier time buying that this was the saga of the Skywalker family if Rey had been officially/traditionally adopted into the Skywalker family. Hell, they could have easily established a father/daughter relationship between her and Luke without her being related to him by blood.
 
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How is bringing Palpatine back killing this movie? In all honesty he was part of The original saga, The prequel saga. I find it kind of fitting he is in The sequel saga.

of course it is weird that he survived that fall. But looking at The screen he does not seem very alive to me. At least not a life worth living. Plus darth maul was cut in freaking half and returned.
And I really like how it leaves some things to my own imagination.

This does not mean that Anakin isnt The Chosen one anymore. He did bring balance to The Force.

Because it ruins and undoes everything in the original trilogy.
 
Palpatine was brought back because they wanted to tie everything back to first six films and make it be a conclusion to the entire saga. It makes sense, if you want to end the story of the Skywalkers that you bring back the main villain who essentially started it all to be the one that you end the saga with. It helps create a connection to the original trilogy, prequel trilogy, and the sequel trilogy. All the conflicts that we see transpire on every trilogy in the saga was the byproduct of one mastermind, and only when that mastermind is vanquished for good is when the saga is truly over.

Problem is it just feels like a desperate last-minute retcon to make up for the fact Snoke was killed. It’s to my understanding that J.J had the idea to bring back ol’ Sheev since the start but frankly I’d rather they have gone in a new direction. I wouldn’t have minded if Kylo had become the main antagonist but I feel both Abrams and Kennedy wanted a more sinister presence than Kylo who naturally was more suited to a Vader-like redemption.

Another problem is that and it makes the world smaller and boils down all the problems of the Galaxy to one guy(again).

It would’ve been better, imo, if Kylo had grown into a more fearsome foe between the end of TLJ and the next episode and he was portrayed as a lost cause that was beyond salvation. Him killing Snoke would solidify his turn to the dark side and he would train in order to possess powers that surpassed even Snoke and the Emperor. Last Jedi seemed to me to be setting up Ben as the final villain of the trilogy and it seemed to be the plan until it was decided to bring back the Emperor for one last hurrah.

Except the main character of this trilogy isn't even a "Skywalker."
 
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I was right about one thing. They put a whole trilogy's worth of material into one movie here. And it suffers as a result.

Leave it to Chris Terrio to overstuff a film like this. He did it in Batman v Superman and Justice League. And he did it here.

Terrio does not know how to pace or write these big tentpole films.

Valid, though Abrams did co-write this film with Terrio, so no reason they don't both deserve a share of the blame here. Plus, considering how much was trimmed out of Justice League by WB, we don't even know the end result of the original product.
 
Valid, though Abrams did co-write this film with Terrio, so no reason they don't both deserve a share of the blame here. Plus, considering how much was trimmed out of Justice League by WB, we don't even know the end result of the original product.

I'm willing to spread blame around. It wasn't just Zack Snyder's fault with DC Universe. It was many parties. Including Kevin Tsujihara and Geoff Johns and Chris Terrio.

I kind of feel like Abrams and Terrio really didn't know what to do here and became desperate.
 
I gotta wonder if they would’ve been better off just following Lucas’s original outlines. Granted, the backlash would probably be worse but I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts Lucas’s version of this wouldn’t feel like a soulless retread as this sounds like it’s going to be.
Except the main character of this trilogy isn't even a "Skywalker."
True, but who’s the villain who started the Skywalker saga as we know it? The one who brought upon all this conflict? Sheev. He’s responsible for all the events in the original six films and greatly impacted the Skywalker bloodline. His legacy looms large over the fates of people that’s part of that family tree so I think it makes sense.
 
I gotta wonder if they would’ve been better off just following Lucas’s original outlines. Granted, the backlash would probably be worse but I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts Lucas’s version of this wouldn’t feel like a soulless retread as sounds it’s like it’s going to be.
True, but who’s the villain who started the Skywalker saga as we know it? The one who brought upon all this conflict? Sheev. He’s responsible for all the events in all six films and greatly impacted the Skywalker bloodline. His legacy looms large over the fates of people that’s part of that family tree so I think it makes sense.

So what dude? There's literally no rule or anything written there that just because Palpatine was responsible for previous events he still needed to be responsible and the villain here. It's a strange argument I don't understand. There was no guiding principal that said Palpatine had to be the bad guy here.

In the 1990s when we got EU novels, the new villains were the likes of Grand Admiral Thrawn and C'Baoth. So right there, two new villains. Yeah they did a Palpatine clone later. But I mean from the outset.

But do you really think it would've killed the sequel trilogy for fans and just narrative had they used completely new bad guys?
 
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the plot points about the Emperor's return and his connection to Rey's lineage should have been weaved throughout the whole trilogy, not just crammed into the final act. all of this should have been building up to the final confrontation with Palpatine in XI, not just feel like "Surprise!! I'm back! Oh, and I'm your grandfather and I want you to carry on my legacy."

in fact, Rey struggling with her dark lineage throughout the 1st two films would have made her a more interesting character, imo. It should have been teased more explicitly in TFA, then confirmed in TLJ, then dealt with in TROS.
 
In Episode VII all we get is that Snoke seduced Ben to the dark side. Ben worships Darth Vader but he's tempted by the Light Side. And Rey was called out by Luke's lightsaber and she knows her family isn't coming back deep down.

In Episode VIII, it's Rey and Ben's minds were bound together or something. I don't know. Still don't get it. That's whatever.
 
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The setup at the end of Last Jedi is basically that Kylo Ren is the big bad. He's the final boss. JJ Abrams did not want to stick to that.
 
Starting to wonder now on Trevorrow a little more. Specifically, I still believe he was fired for that awful Book of Henry, but I do think there was some truth to the rumors that he couldn’t follow up TLJ, maybe because Carrie’s death, maybe for other reasons. If it’s looking like TRoS is that much of a hack job, it may well have been impossible to really follow that in a satisfying way.
 
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So what dude? There's literally no rule or anything written there that just because Palpatine was responsible for previous events he still needed to be responsible and the villain here. It's a strange argument I don't understand. There was no guiding principal that said Palpatine had to be the bad guy here.

In the 1990s when we got EU novels, the new villains were the likes of Grand Admiral Thrawn and C'Baoth. So right there, two new villains. Yeah they a Palpatine clone later.

But do you really think it would've killed the sequel trilogy for fans and just narrative had they used completely new bad guys?
You’re 100% right they didn’t need to but all I’m saying is that I can see why they went in that direction. Though I’m in full agreement that they didn’t need to bring Palpatine back and even I would prefer a new villain, or at least for Kylo to pick up the slack and become the main antagonist in this series but it is what it is.
 
Starting to wonder now on Trevorrow a little more. Specifically, I still believe he was fired for that awful Book of Henry, but I do think there was some truth to the rumors that he couldn’t follow up TLJ, maybe because Carrie’s death, maybe for other reasons. If it’s looking like TRoS is that much of a hack job, it may well have been impossible to really follow that in a satisfying way.

Well this is the reason I wouldn't have allowed Luke to die in Last Jedi. artistic integrity or not. To me the natural ending is Luke getting out of his funk and taking up the lightsaber again and helping Rey. Not saying to never kill him but maybe hold it off for on more movie.

Basically, Luke gets to start over with Rey and gets a clean slate. And Rey will be the one to carry on his legacy and become the hero for the next generation that he was for the old one.

IMHO it's like My Hero Academia. What happens when Superman himself has to retire? The symbol for peace. The symbol for truth and justice? He has to groom and mentor his replacement. In MHA that's Deku. In the sequel trilogy, ideally it's Rey. The writers simply failed Rey.
 
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they should have stuck with one director/creative team for the entire trilogy. or else, have someone serve as the overseer/supervisor role to make sure the story feels like a cohesive unit across the three films.
 
Starting to wonder now on Trevorrow a little more. Specifically, I still believe he was fired for that awful Book of Henry, but I do think there was some truth to the rumors that he couldn’t follow up TLJ, maybe because Carrie’s death, maybe for other reasons. If it’s looking like TRoS is that much of a hack job, it may well have been impossible to really follow that in a satisfying way.
If rumors are to be believed, didn’t Colin not want Luke killed in Last Jedi because he planned to use him(alive) in his film?
 
Well this is the reason I wouldn't have allowed Luke to die in Last Jedi. artistic integrity or not. To me the natural ending is Luke getting out of his funk and taking up the lightsaber again and helping Rey. Not saying to never kill him but maybe hold it off for on more movie.

Basically, Luke gets to start over with Rey and gets a clean slate. And Rey will be the one to carry on his legacy and become the hero for the next generation that he was for the old one.

IMHO it's like My Hero Academia. What happens when Superman himself has to retire? The symbol for peace. The symbol for truth and justice? He has to groom and mentor his replacement. In MHA that's Deku. In the sequel trilogy, ideally it's Rey. The writers simply failed Rey.
no, see, you are thinking logical with reasonable expectations about a natural progression of story and characters.

but because that's logical and expected, it must be subverted. Because, SUBVERSION!!!
 
what did they undo? Except Anakin / Vader not being the one who kills off palpatine ? He is still The chosen one who brought balance in The force.

LOL Except undoing the thing that makes him the chosen one to bring balance.
 
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You’re 100% right they didn’t need to but all I’m saying is that I can see why they went in that direction. Though I’m in full agreement that they didn’t need to bring Palpatine back and even I would prefer a new villain, or at least for Kylo to pick up the slack and become the main antagonist in this series but it is what it is.

Understood, thank you.
 

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