Rogue One Rogue One: RT Watch Thread

I'd love if I like Rogue One better, and I did like TFA a lot (I love it in fact, because it's SW, like I love the prequels despite them not being good) and I still think new SW can do amazing things. The opportunity is still there, it's just not much is giving me hope that it can in the foreseeable future apart from Johnson.

Lucas doesn't like how Disney is turning the SW movies into movies for the fans. And I totally agree. They're giving us what we already love without thinking what made SW great in the first place. When that original film came out, there was unlimited possibilities for the sequels. Then ESB came out and they went in that direction which was brilliant and it became a staple, but we've seemed to be too hung up on that and not try to find the next new thing. I just want them to treat these movies like there's never been a second SW movie before and see the total uncharted territory. But if we're just gonna get the same timeline dealing with the same characters in and out then it's been a damn waste.

I want to see a movie that takes place hundreds or thousands of years later. New characters, new worlds, new storytelling ideas. There's 36 other stories out there. Not just the hero's journey.

I agree with a lot of that. That's the hope I have for the Anthology films, that they can do other things. Because Star Wars is a universe, if you get away from the Skywalker Saga and the "balance of the Force" prophecy, you can do anything you want. Detective Noir? Sure. Western? Absolutely. You want to do a version of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight as a sci-fi flick? Go for it.

An Obi-Wan movie set between Eps. III and IV? Sure. Maybe do it as a western, something like Unforgiven, make it a character piece.

But the further away we get from what we know, the more they can cut loose. We don't need a Han Solo movie, we didn't need Rogue One, but it makes good business sense. Hopefully they grow beyond that in time.
 
I think Lucas feels that they are making movies more for the fans than for the director's vision.

What he doesn't seem to realize, is that these are the film makers that grew up with Star Wars, and ARE the fans. So the two view points are not indistinguishable.
 
TFA had more heart and soul in that hug between Rey and Finn than the entirety of the PT.

Poe and Finn also had more romantic chemistry than Anakin and Padme.

(Just rewatched AOTC, and holy ****, is Anakin a creepy perv. The character assassination of Padme really started in AOTC)
 
Poe and Finn also had more romantic chemistry than Anakin and Padme.

(Just rewatched AOTC, and holy ****, is Anakin a creepy perv. The character assassination of Padme really started in AOTC)

That would require her to have character in the first place.
 
I'd love if I like Rogue One better, and I did like TFA a lot (I love it in fact, because it's SW, like I love the prequels despite them not being good) and I still think new SW can do amazing things. The opportunity is still there, it's just not much is giving me hope that it can in the foreseeable future apart from Johnson.

Lucas doesn't like how Disney is turning the SW movies into movies for the fans. And I totally agree. They're giving us what we already love without thinking what made SW great in the first place. When that original film came out, there was unlimited possibilities for the sequels. Then ESB came out and they went in that direction which was brilliant and it became a staple, but we've seemed to be too hung up on that and not try to find the next new thing. I just want them to treat these movies like there's never been a second SW movie before and see the total uncharted territory. But if we're just gonna get the same timeline dealing with the same characters in and out then it's been a damn waste.

I want to see a movie that takes place hundreds or thousands of years later. New characters, new worlds, new storytelling ideas. There's 36 other stories out there. Not just the hero's journey.

Lucas pandered to the fans as much in the PT. Even more so with AOTC trying to win some of them back. I think he puts a little more self importance of his "auteur-ship" then is really there. The man is the foundation of the franchise/blockbuster, but he keeps trying to convince everyone that he's really that director still making avant-garde films. That he is still saying he's going to get back to (He's been saying that since 1973).

You can take these films in many different directions, though Rogue One seems to have fallen in some places it seems to show that yes you can do some interesting things with the series. Which I'm sure they will continue to do.

But for most it still does not take away from what TFA was, a superb heartfelt film that pays ode to the OT while passing the baton slowly moving into the new horizon.

And while one can, I suppose, blame an absence of freshness for its lack of power, this too hardly seems crucial. After all, it's precisely because they want more of the same that many viewers will come to "Empire" in the first place, greeting the appearance of all their old friends with delight

EDIT: Forgot to put that that quote is actually a review from The Wall Street Journal in May of 1980 regarding The Empire Strikes Back.
 
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I think Lucas feels that they are making movies more for the fans than for the director's vision.

What he doesn't seem to realize, is that these are the film makers that grew up with Star Wars, and ARE the fans. So the two view points are not indistinguishable.
Yep, exactly. I do find it super weird that you aren't allowed to give the fans what they want though. As if that is a bad thing. Lucas getting spiteful in later years doesn't mean Disney and the new creative have to be.

Reading Rogue One, I am getting four things. That visually it is a well made film, the last act is great, the characters are likable (though underdone) and that it will please the fans.

How is any of that bad things?
 
Yep, exactly. I do find it super weird that you aren't allowed to give the fans what they want though. As if that is a bad thing. Lucas getting spiteful in later years doesn't mean Disney and the new creative have to be.

Reading Rogue One, I am getting four things. That visually it is a well made film, the last act is great, the characters are likable (though underdone) and that it will please the fans.

How is any of that bad things?

Sounds pretty horrendous to me :o
 
Poe and Finn also had more romantic chemistry than Anakin and Padme.

(Just rewatched AOTC, and holy ****, is Anakin a creepy perv. The character assassination of Padme really started in AOTC)

That would require her to have character in the first place.

I have long held to the belief that Anakin is SUPPOSED to be a creepy perv, but Lucas didn't do enough to make it feel intentional, and the edit of AOTC makes Padme's decision to be with him completely indefensible. Between the novelization and the deleted scenes, there's actually a ghost of a reason why she decided to pursue a relationship with him, but it's not in the edit at all, which is a a horrible choice. He should have cut the Sound of Music sequence out and put some of the stuff with the Naberrie family back in.
 
Yep, exactly. I do find it super weird that you aren't allowed to give the fans what they want though. As if that is a bad thing. Lucas getting spiteful in later years doesn't mean Disney and the new creative have to be.

Reading Rogue One, I am getting four things. That visually it is a well made film, the last act is great, the characters are likable (though underdone) and that it will please the fans.

How is any of that bad things?

Agreed, the reviews have me pretty excited.
 
I think I need to return all our tickets. :csad:

han-solo-death.gif
 
I still haven't quite put my finger on the importance of box office to fans of a film..is it a competitive thing?

Anyways,

I've read quite a few bad reviews from news papers. Lots of them complaining of a dry plot, motionless characters and a weak story. All while being to heavily reliant on the War Wars brand. However,I've seen "crazy third act", "fun", "fans will love" etc. As it stands, it appears the film may not be a technically "good" or "great" film, however, a film a for fans that they will enjoy. This in addition to getting a different tone out of when compared to the rest of the saga.

If a Star Wars movie doesn't HAVE the Star Wars brand, the quirkiness and film style exclusive to Star Wars than something is missing in my opinion. Some reviews complain about it being too reliant on being a Star Wars film yet I personally believe this is a somewhat necessary quality in a Star Wars movie.

If I have fun watching it, sweat, and feel the need to replay scenes in my mind after the movie, then it's good.
 
I still haven't quite put my finger on the importance of box office to fans of a film..is it a competitive thing?

Anyways,

I've read quite a few bad reviews from news papers. Lots of them complaining of a dry plot, motionless characters and a weak story. All while being to heavily reliant on the War Wars brand. However,I've seen "crazy third act", "fun", "fans will love" etc. As it stands, it appears the film may not be a technically "good" or "great" film, however, a film a for fans that they will enjoy. This in addition to getting a different tone out of when compared to the rest of the saga.

If a Star Wars movie doesn't HAVE the Star Wars brand, the quirkiness and film style exclusive to Star Wars than something is missing in my opinion. Some reviews complain about it being too reliant on being a Star Wars film yet I personally believe this is a somewhat necessary quality in a Star Wars movie.

If I have fun watching it, sweat, and feel the need to replay scenes in my mind after the movie, then it's good.
Bad claymation. :argh:

:woot:

And I completely agree about a Star Wars films needing certain qualities. What is the point of a Star Wars film that doesn't feel like Star Wars?
 
Lucas pandered to the fans as much in the PT. Even more so with AOTC trying to win some of them back. I think he puts a little more self importance of his "auteur-ship" then is really there. The man is the foundation of the franchise/blockbuster, but he keeps trying to convince everyone that he's really that director still making avant-garde films. That he is still saying he's going to get back to (He's been saying that since 1973).

Sure, but I don't see what that has to do with this argument. In these terms, I'm talking about finding something new. How that worked is another discussion, but my point is, Lucas was always trying to find the next new thing and pushed boundaries. He created a platform for filmmakers to see what not to do. There wouldn't be the success of any of these movies if Lucas didn't fail. He was in total uncharted territory back in the 90's with the creation of these ideas. The PT were a platform for him to try new crazy things. Same with the original trilogy. To varied results, but my point is overall, they were fearless. Disney is going forward sure, but constantly looking over their shoulder and asking, "Now you're sure this is right?" In doing so, it's coming up with results that's partly there, but not completely. My problem is criticizing what's not there because there's clearly part of a major component that's not being filled yet and not enough people are talking about it.

But for most it still does not take away from what TFA was, a superb heartfelt film that pays ode to the OT while passing the baton slowly moving into the new horizon.

It works for TFA, because it was appropriate but you can still pass the baton but still go crazy with it (by going crazy includes having a great story first and foremost). My problem is TFA not only held back, it knew it wanted to be held back. I got the sense of that all over. Now I'm projecting but people can correct me: For what exactly? To ease us back into SW? There's no rule for it at all. What? The audience and fans can't suddenly handle a high quality and totally fresh SW film? Is it too much for them? All Disney needed to do was not be the prequels and it would automatically be better and restore faith. My problem is, that's all their doing and then a bit more. It comes off that getting SW on track and making it be accepted by everyone was their first priority. Not just to make a great film.
 
I still haven't quite put my finger on the importance of box office to fans of a film..is it a competitive thing?

Anyways,

I've read quite a few bad reviews from news papers. Lots of them complaining of a dry plot, motionless characters and a weak story. All while being to heavily reliant on the War Wars brand. However,I've seen "crazy third act", "fun", "fans will love" etc. As it stands, it appears the film may not be a technically "good" or "great" film, however, a film a for fans that they will enjoy. This in addition to getting a different tone out of when compared to the rest of the saga.

If a Star Wars movie doesn't HAVE the Star Wars brand, the quirkiness and film style exclusive to Star Wars than something is missing in my opinion. Some reviews complain about it being too reliant on being a Star Wars film yet I personally believe this is a somewhat necessary quality in a Star Wars movie. It sounds like something that people will take whatever's given to them.

If I have fun watching it, sweat, and feel the need to replay scenes in my mind after the movie, then it's good.

This is maddening. Everything they're criticizing are the most important things to a movie! Those other things are superficial. Let's just have a fun SW movie, as long as it feels like SW, then that's fine. Let's not question things and have higher standards...

What makes SW SW is so subjective and broad. It can mean anything. That doesn't get into the nuts and bolts of what makes a great movie. It sounds whatever's given to us means we'll take it.
 
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This is maddening. Everything they're criticizing are the most important things to a movie! Those other things are superficial. Let's just have a fun SW movie, as long as it feels like SW, then that's fine. Let's not question things and have higher standards...

What makes SW SW is so subjective and broad. It can mean anything. That doesn't get into the nuts and bolts of what makes a great movie. It sounds whatever's given to us means we'll take it.
If it is subjective, why are you getting angry with someone having an opinion on what they want from Star Wars?
 
If it is subjective, why are you getting angry with someone having an opinion on what they want from Star Wars?

It means that it can go anywhere and there's no standards. It becomes an excuse. If that's guiding the view of the film then there's something wrong.
 
It means that it can go anywhere and there's no standards. It becomes an excuse. If that's guiding the view of the film then there's something wrong.
It's wrong according to your subjective view, or are you king of this mountain? The only excuse I see here is the one you are looking for to complain about new Star Wars.

Also going anywhere, means they can go anywhere, including 30 years post-RotJ. I am pretty sure the vast majority wanted to see what happened to Luke, Han and Leia. To see their kids. And that includes the filmmakers.
 
I guess it will stay in the 80's.

I guess I am happy with that :)
 
It's wrong according to your subjective view, or are you king of this mountain?

Also going anywhere, means they can go anywhere. And I am pretty sure the vast majority wanted to see what happened to Luke, Han and Leia. To see their kids. And that includes the filmmakers.

You are missing my point entirely while twisting my words. I'm saying by someone saying SW can be anything, you're dodging criticism of valid points to be made out of a flawed movie.
 
You are missing my point entirely while twisting my words. I'm saying by someone saying SW can be anything, you're dodging criticism of valid points to be made out of a flawed movie.
Discussing flaws in a movie is one thing. You don't do that. You discuss the state of the franchise like they are doing it wrong, while they continually please fans, make a lot of money, and apparently have made the two best Star Wars movies since Luke, Leia and the droids watched the Rebel Fleet float through space. TFA is a damn good movie you go out of your way to complain about because it wasn't what you wanted out of Star Wars. Not that the movie was badly made, but not what you wanted. Which is your right of course, you still treat it like the vast majority is insane. And you complain about how others enjoy Star Wars.

Star Wars hasn't lost its ambition. It regained it, and in the process is delivering fine films.
 
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