The Last Jedi Rotten tomatoes score?

[MadVillainy]

Evidently, yes they did. Because this had 63,000 views in 12 hrs. Also was getting high traffic during points in time when people couldn't have possibly seen the movie, as theaters largely do not open until like 10am at earliest. Normally closer to like 11 or 12, and yet was getting mountains of reviews during period the movie would not have been over in EST, and would not have started in other time zones. Plus, you don't actually had to have seen the movie to give the movie a bad rating on RT or IMDB. You simply just click a button.

FOr sure, but I'm not seeing any clear evidence of this. 63,000 and there's no indication that they were all negative bots or trolls. How many of them were positive die hards giving it positive reviews without seeing it.

The other thing that brings me pause, in 2016 we had 2 of the most toxic film community experiences with the reactions to BvS and GB16. If this is so easy and simple why didn't they raise BvS's user score to be positive to fit their narrative of critics hate it, fans love it. Why does GB16 have a 52%which to me is high. At least considering how many people cried about it, it should be much lower.
How come no one has "gamed" the RT system this hard until now?

Last thing I'll say about it is, it's not good to just keep saying everything that happens to films we like is a conspiracy with little to no evidence. Maybe a lot of people just didn't like TLJ or at least didn't give it a 3.5. It seems to be a divisive movie from what I've seen and heard on here, out and about, and on social media. I'm sure there is a bit of something going on and it's not really at 50 whatever but, I'm not just gonna say it's some troll when there doesn't seem much to go on other than something this one guy said

 

[Big Lob]

It's funny, the RT stuff actually worked in creating some controversy around the movie... But by revealing his master plan, its gone from his chosen narrative to "Some EU whacko did this".

It's like if Ozymandias ran around bragging about his giant squid in New York a couple of days after it happened. Only sadder and dumber.

Isn't that kind of the 4chan/troll culture, though? Eventually they have to brag because it makes them feel important.

 

[Spider-Fan]

FOr sure, but I'm not seeing any clear evidence of this. 63,000 and there's no indication that they were all negative bots or trolls. How many of them were positive die hards giving it positive reviews without seeing it.

The other thing that brings me pause, in 2016 we had 2 of the most toxic film community experiences with the reactions to BvS and GB16. If this is so easy and simple why didn't they raise BvS's user score to be positive to fit their narrative of critics hate it, fans love it. Why does GB16 have a 52%which to me is high. At least considering how many people cried about it, it should be much lower.
How come no one has "gamed" the RT system this hard until now?

Last thing I'll say about it is, it's not good to just keep saying everything that happens to films we like is a conspiracy with little to no evidence. Maybe a lot of people just didn't like TLJ or at least didn't give it a 3.5. It seems to be a divisive movie from what I've seen and heard on here, out and about, and on social media. I'm sure there is a bit of something going on and it's not really at 50 whatever but, I'm not just gonna say it's some troll when there doesn't seem much to go on other than something this one guy said

BvS has other metric supporting people not liking it. As does Ghostbusters (just checked its IMDB, and it has a 5.3 which on IMDB is pretty bad). If the RT user rating is so low, why is the IMDB much higher (Last Jedi sits at a 7.9 IMDB at the moment)? Why is the Cinema score much higher? When you play a simple game of "One of these things is not like the other" it shows which one probably was manipulated, and even has people admitting they did it. Seems clear cut to me.

As for why they did this for Star Wars and not some other movies, Star Wars has far more obsessed fans than many other fan bases do.

 

[Dimahoo]

On metacritic, the user score is 4.9.

So, does that mean someone created 100000 accounts to troll the movie?


There are people who disliked and hated the movie. Deal with it. If you loved it, that's what matters. Don't dismiss people who dislike something.

Hell, even on reddit, facebook and google overall, I've read many negative comments about it. So, is it all rigged and meant to destroy this movie's reputation? Come on.

 

[Spider-Fan]

On metacritic, the user score is 4.9.

So, does that mean someone created 100000 accounts to troll the movie?


There are people who disliked and hated the movie. Deal with it. If you loved it, that's what matters. Don't dismiss people who dislike something.

Hell, even on reddit, facebook and google overall, I've read many negative comments about it. So, is it all rigged and meant to destry this movie's reputation? Come on.

I am not dismissing people's opinions who hated the movie. But I will dismiss skewed metrics. Also, I don't give 2 craps about any of the rating metrics. But, if these metrics are going to be your go to defense to make a point, I am going to point out the flaws in that theory.

 

[ron1705]

On metacritic, the user score is 4.9.

So, does that mean someone created 100000 accounts to troll the movie?

There are definitely people pathetic enough of to F5 the hell out of a site and lower grades. Don't underestimate the pitifulness of some of them. Especially when they align it with political causes ('oh no, this movie has women/people of colour with significant roles in it, such PC culture'), people have become so toxic that they will definitely patrol sites like that to make it seem like they're a bigger group than they are. It's almost incomprehensible that people do this, but it's a sad reality nowadays.

Not taking away from people who have their reasons to dislike the film, obviously. Just saying.

 

[Dimahoo]

I am not dismissing people's opinions who hated the movie. But I will dismiss skewed metrics. Also, I don't give 2 craps about any of the rating metrics. But, if these metrics are going to be your go to defense to make a point, I am going to point out the flaws in that theory.

Well, then I guess you shouldn't consider any reactions from imdb, metacritic and other places.

If you claim people are downvoting a movie they hate, that means any movie can have inflated scores by fanboys and fanatics who loved it.

Are you sure you want to play that game?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, then I guess you shouldn't consider any reactions from imdb, metacritic and other places.

If you claim people are downvoting a movie they hate, that means any movie can have inflated scores by fanboys and fanatics who loved it.

Are you sure you want to play that game?

Sigh. Yes I do. IMDB and RT both are unreliable for ratings. Any place you can vote the same movie 1000 times to rank up or down is meaningless. But, people on here continue to want to give them meaning to make sweeping statements, like the GA hated this movie and things like that. Sadly, the only metric that verifies if people saw a movie before using the data is Cinemascore. Which is high. But, at the same time you're polling people on the high of seeing the movie. So that can also be useless 3 months after the fact. My only point here is if you're trying to use the RT score to make some type of grand scale point, then you cannot ignore data that conflicts with your view at the same time. Then you're just picking and choosing what reflects your own personal opinion, not any form of reality.

As for above comments from others on me dealing with opinions, I am confident in my own opinions of this movie. I have never met most people on this site knowingly in real life, and frankly I do not need people I never met to like this movie. If I like it, that is enough for me. I like discussing the movie and debating things with people. It helps me express or think of the movie in ways I may not have had without that discourse. But, I don't lay in bed at night thinking about this film's RT score or crap like that. None of that noise matters to me. Further, if people are going to tell me to deal with contradictory opinions and information, the shoe can easily be put on the other foot as well.

 

[Dimahoo]

Sigh. Yes I do. IMDB and RT both are unreliable for ratings. Any place you can vote the same movie 1000 times to rank up or down is meaningless. But, people on here continue to want to give them meaning to make sweeping statements, like the GA hated this movie and things like that. Sadly, the only metric that verifies if people saw a movie before using the data is Cinemascore. Which is high. But, at the same time you're polling people on the high of seeing the movie. So that can also be useless 3 months after the fact. My only point here is if you're trying to use the RT score to make some type of grand scale point, then you cannot ignore data that conflicts with your view at the same time. Then you're just picking and choosing what reflects your own personal opinion, not any form of reality.

As for above comments from others on me dealing with opinions, I am confident in my own opinions of this movie. I have never met most people on this site knowingly in real life, and frankly I do not need people I never met to like this movie. If I like it, that is enough for me. I like discussing the movie and debating things with people. It helps me express or think of the movie in ways I may not have had without that discourse. But, I don't lay in bed at night thinking about this film's RT score or crap like that. None of that noise matters to me. Further, if people are going to tell me to deal with contradictory opinions and information, the shoe can easily be put on the other foot as well.

They're unreliable for ratings, unless it suits your feelings. Because previously you posted how imdb shows people disliked Ghostbusters 2016.

I don't think general audiences hated The Last Jedi. I just think there are several people who disliked the movie, just like several people loved it.

CinemaScore doesn't mean anything and the Star Wars Prequels got an A- score, which doesn't help your argument at all adn the prequels are very disliked by the fanbase and the critics. So, how did they get A-on CinemaScore? Does that mean fanboys inflated the grades?

None of these movies had such difference between critics and user scores like The Last Jedi has.

So, every movie that has high user scores can't be trusted because tons of fanboys give high ratings. Isn't that right?

 

[Spider-Fan]

They're unreliable for ratings, unless it suits your feelings. Because previously you posted how imdb shows people disliked Ghostbusters 2016.

Reason I posted it is because Ghostbusters is different from TLJ in this instance because instead of 2 rating systems showing different results, Ghostbusters is supporting the other result. Also, I am not the one who first injected Ghostbusters into the conversation. Someone else did, and I pointed out where their analysis of that data is different from the data we have for TLJ.

CinemaScore doesn't mean anything and the Star Wars Prequels got an A- score, which doesn't help your argument at all adn the prequels are very disliked by the fanbase and the critics. So, how did they get A-on CinemaScore? Does that mean fanboys inflated the grades?

See previous point about people seeing the movie just now are more inclined to like it than maybe 3 months or years down the line. When the prequels first came out, people praised them. They only became cool to hate years later. Personally, I never liked them, but I do remember arguing with people on whether they were good or not when they first came out. The consenus they have now shifted greatly.

None of these movies had such difference between critics and user scores like The Last Jedi has.

So, every movie that has high user scores can't be trusted because tons of fanboys give high ratings. Isn't that right?

I never said they were reliable. Other people were trying to say that RT score is reliable. I would say online internet polls where you can vote as many times as you like and don't require actually having to have seen the movie are not reliable. That applies to both IMDB and RT. But, again, if you're using them to debate a point, then I am going to use them to show the flaw in your logic. In this case, there is even admitted tampering, yet people still want to give validity to this score, which to me is laughable.

 

[Abudefduf]

If you claim people are downvoting a movie they hate, that means any movie can have inflated scores by fanboys and fanatics who loved it.

That happens all the time. It's not because they're "just that good" that the majority of movies made by Nolan is on the IMDB #250 list, and that's only one example.

 

[Sithborg]

Well, then I guess you shouldn't consider any reactions from imdb, metacritic and other places.

If you claim people are downvoting a movie they hate, that means any movie can have inflated scores by fanboys and fanatics who loved it.

Are you sure you want to play that game?

Yes. Open internet polls are unreliable.

 

[Dimahoo]

Reason I posted it is because Ghostbusters is different from TLJ in this instance because instead of 2 rating systems showing different results, Ghostbusters is supporting the other result. Also, I am not the one who first injected Ghostbusters into the conversation. Someone else did, and I pointed out where their analysis of that data is different from the data we have for TLJ.



See previous point about people seeing the movie just now are more inclined to like it than maybe 3 months or years down the line. When the prequels first came out, people praised them. They only became cool to hate years later. Personally, I never liked them, but I do remember arguing with people on whether they were good or not when they first came out. The consenus they have now shifted greatly.



I never said they were reliable. Other people were trying to say that RT score is reliable. I would say online internet polls where you can vote as many times as you like and don't require actually having to have seen the movie to be are not reliable. That applies to both IMDB and RT. But, again, if you're using them to debate a point, then I am going to use them to show the flaw in your logic. In this case, there is even admitted tampering, yet people still want to give validity to this score, which to me is laughable.

So, if we follow your logic we have to ignore everything related to users and just focus on what we think about something.

By the way, I don't care about user rating or user scores. I just think it's interesting how some people use them to show something is or isn't good/bad.

Oh, and there were tons of people downvoting Ghostbusters, even before the movie's release.

All in all, the fact is: many people loved The Last Jedi and many hated it. No CinemaScore can hide that. It is what it is. I didn't like the movie, but I'm fine if people liked it. Hell, I'm considering even watchig it again for the parts I liked.

 

[Dimahoo]

Yes. Open internet polls are unreliable.

That's what I wanted to read. I agree.

 

[Spider-Fan]

So, if we follow your logic we have to ignore everything related to users and just focus on what we think about something.

By the way, I don't care about user rating or user scores. I just think it's interesting how some people use them to show something is or isn't good/bad.

Oh, and there were tons of people downvoting Ghostbusters, even before the movie's release.

All in all, the fact is: many people loved The Last Jedi and many hated it. No CinemaScore can hide that. It is what it is. I didn't like the movie, but I'm fine if people liked it. Hell, I'm considering even watchig it again for the parts I liked.

Correct. The only universal truth really you can trust is your own. After all, you experience life your way and from your perspective. It's the most honest.

 

[danoyse]

Not surprising, after a while it looked less like an honest reaction and more like deliberate sabotage, especially when other audience scores like Cinemascore were very high.

re: Luke and Kylo:

Spoiler

Whatever Luke saw in Kylo, it scared the living sh** out of him, only something that horrifying would have made him even think of killing his nephew. I'm sure it was not a mild decision he took lightly, and it might have been as much to spare Kylo from suffering as anything else because Luke knew what the Dark Side did to people. My guess is that what he saw was connected to the evil living on the island, and that we haven't seen the last of that evil. Or Luke.

Yep.

Spoiler

It was the opposite of what he saw in Darth Vader. Where he was able to see light in Darth Vader, he saw nothing but darkness in Kylo Ren. No "spark" as the movie was found of saying. It's shocking to see Luke try to take out his own nephew, but watching it the second time, and seeing how confident Luke was to take him on later, Luke was right about him. The same way he'd been right about Vader.

And omg, the Legends twits...

 

[batman1]

I think it's obvious that the ratings don't match up. All the talk about Disney/Marvel controlling the ratings system in some way now seems to be true. Disney obviously tried to control the ratings. But the fans are speaking out.

 

[ron1705]

I think it's obvious that the ratings don't match up. All the talk about Disney/Marvel controlling the ratings system in some way now seems to be true. Disney obviously tried to control the ratings. But the fans are speaking out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

[Sithborg]

I think it's obvious that the ratings don't match up. All the talk about Disney/Marvel controlling the ratings system in some way now seems to be true. Disney obviously tried to control the ratings. But the fans are speaking out.

Because the crazed fans using the same tactic they have used before is so much more unbelievable to the studios having control of critics.

 

[Grootster]

C'mon please stop.

This is the same nonsense as the die hard fans of the DCEU use.
Why is it so hard to think that some people just don't like a movie?

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[Mjölnir]

Yep.

Spoiler

It was the opposite of what he saw in Darth Vader. Where he was able to see light in Darth Vader, he saw nothing but darkness in Kylo Ren. No "spark" as the movie was found of saying. It's shocking to see Luke try to take out his own nephew, but watching it the second time, and seeing how confident Luke was to take him on later, Luke was right about him. The same way he'd been right about Vader.

And omg, the Legends twits...

And that just completely fails on a writing level.

Spoiler

There's no way to believe that Luke only saw darkness in Ben when Ben is the least dark dark side user we've ever seen. He's constantly feeling pulled towards the light, to the point of having outspoken monologues to himself about it. But the guy that saw light in the genocidal Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader, whom had truly and fully embraced the dark side and committed countless horrible deeds, can't detect the largest light any dark sider has had, before he even made the choice to turn to the dark side to begin with (as Rey clarified for the viewers)?

That's downright laughable to me. That particular point is worse script writing than Lucas in the prequels.

 

[Spider-Fan]

And that just completely fails on a writing level.

Spoiler

There's no way to believe that Luke only saw darkness in Ben when Ben is the least dark dark side user we've ever seen. He's constantly feeling pulled towards the light, to the point of having outspoken monologues to himself about it. But the guy that saw light in the genocidal Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader, whom had truly and fully embraced the dark side and committed countless horrible deeds, can't detect the largest light any dark sider has had, before he even made the choice to turn to the dark side to begin with (as Rey clarified for the viewers)?

That's downright laughable to me. That particular point is worse script writing than Lucas in the prequels.

And yet

Spoiler

every time Ben has had a chance to go to the light like Vader did, he only gets more evil. He had a chance to go with Han, stabbed him in the heart. Had a chance to go with Rey after killing Snoke, becomes the lord of the Sith.

Luke was right. Like Bruce Wayne said, it is not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you.

 

[danoyse]

And yet

Spoiler

every time Ben has had a chance to go to the light like Vader did, he only gets more evil. He had a chance to go with Han, stabbed him in the heart. Had a chance to go with Rey after killing Snoke, becomes the lord of the Sith.

Luke was right. Like Bruce Wayne said, it is not who you are underneath. It's what you do that defines you.

Or to paraphrase Dumbledore...it's not our abilities who define who we are, it is our choices.

Ben made his choice. Luke was right about him all along.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And yet

Spoiler

every time Ben has had a chance to go to the light like Vader did, he only gets more evil. He had a chance to go with Han, stabbed him in the heart. Had a chance to go with Rey after killing Snoke, becomes the lord of the Sith.

Luke was right. Like Bruce Wayne said, it is not who you are underneath, it's what you do that defines you.

Kylo is not a Sith. But other then that, I agree. t:

 

[Spider-Fan]

Kylo is not a Sith. But other then that, I agree. t:

You get my point!!!

t: