Rumor Becomes Fact: 'ms' Acquires 'lionhead Studios'

[WhatsHisFace]

it was more well bugger.. not it's a really really bad thing, I just hope that Lionhead will not be forced or encouraged to forget their PC games... Black and White for an example. Other than that I don't give a ****.

It says that Lionhead is going to move forward making games for "Xbox and Windows" formats. So just don't get crappy Apples or Linux "PCs".

 

[Hudson]

It says that Lionhead is going to move forward making games for "Xbox and Windows" formats. So just don't get crappy Apples or Linux "PCs".

Alrighty then
I heard F.E.A.R was coming to the consoles by the way.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Alrighty then
I heard F.E.A.R was coming to the consoles by the way.

I heard it too. Right after I plopped down $3000 for a gaming rig. Oh well, FEAR might be a great port, or a crap port, so we'll see. I'm waiting for games to hit low prices nowadays. Still haven't picked up Black and White 2 because it's ten dollars too high.

 

[Hudson]

I heard it too. Right after I plopped down $3000 for a gaming rig. Oh well, FEAR might be a great port, or a crap port, so we'll see. I'm waiting for games to hit low prices nowadays. Still haven't picked up Black and White 2 because it's ten dollars too high.

wait for christmas... maybe, they'll probably bundle the maingame and the expansion together

 

[GothicPowerMix1]

What System wilL Fear be coming out for ?

 

[Zenien]

Fear? PS3 360.

Black and White games weren't games they were technology demos for AI, and the second scored and sold poorly because it is a bad game. Fable sold well because of hype and goggles, when it reality it was a bigger bait and switch then any game this generation turned out to be. It's litterally one of the most boring games out there.

Let's hope they start making good games instead of being a dev who has good ideas but crappy execution over 50 percent of the time.

and yes, my reaction would be the same if Sony got them.

And also yes, Guerilla has like 1 more chance with Sony (Killzone PS3) before they will officilly become a joke.

 

[GothicPowerMix1]

Always wanted to play FEAR. My PC can not handle it

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Black and White games weren't games they were technology demos for AI

That's rediculous. I had more fun with Black and White than any RTS since RollerCoaster Tycoon.

and the second scored and sold poorly because it is a bad game.

Gamespot gave it an 8.2, and I played the demo and loved it. It apparently sold well enough to warrant an expansion pack, since it's getting one.

Fable sold well because of hype and goggles,

Fable got an 8.6 from Gamespot, which is a very good score. It sold well because of excellent marketting and because it was a very solid game.

when it reality it was a bigger bait and switch then any game this generation turned out to be.

Metal Gear Solid 2.

It's litterally one of the most boring games out there.

I disagree. I got a lot of excitement out of Fable. The beginning of the game starts out with a very good tutorial, develops into a great action adventure, and then there's a bit of RPG thrown in when you're ready to leave the Guild. Once the main quest really gets going, it's nearly impossible to put down at points, mainly towards the last three or four hours. I was glued to my chair.

Let's hope they start making good games instead of being a dev who has good ideas but crappy execution over 50 percent of the time.

They do make good games, they just haven't been able to find technology amazing enough to back up their amazing ideas. I find Peter Molyneux to be more imaginative than Will Wright, as is evidenced by Populous/Dungeon Keeper vs. Sim City/Simsville (unreleased sadly, but not ambitious at all) with Black and White being far more open than anything Wright ever did until Spore. That's why their games have historically needed to be scaled back (Fable lost many features that were working, Black and White lost a few creature ideas).

Even The Movies, a PC release, was clearly made with the PS2 in mind, as the graphics are horrible.

and yes, my reaction would be the same if Sony got them.

Doubtful. You hold praise for Guerrilla, who actually sucks and doesn't employ a "gaming god".

And also yes, Guerilla has like 1 more chance with Sony (Killzone PS3) before they will officilly become a joke.

Killzone WAS their second chance. Their first was Shellshock, which got evern worse reviews than Killzone. Killzone 2 is nothing to look forward to.

 

[Horrorfan]

WELL IT WOULD, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO READ FIRST.


BUT YEAH, IF IT WEREN'T FOR SUCH RUMORS, I'D HAVE GIVEN UP ON IT LONG AGO. FOR AWHILE, THAT WAS THE ONLY GAME THAT MATTERED TO ME.

Well I don't usually put a lot of stock in rumours. I HOPE that BC, The Movies, F.E.A.R and Quake Wars come to 360, but we will be waiting at least untill E3 to find out. I heard they are definitly making a sequel to F.E.A.R for the 360 so it would make sense, and I loved quake 4 so I would like to see that. Movies just looked awesome, as did BC.


Also if Fable can get someone like me into RPGs, it did something right. And Shellshock sucked ass (even though I quite like killzone).

 

[Zenien]

Gamespot gave it an 8.2, and I played the demo and loved it. It apparently sold well enough to warrant an expansion pack, since it's getting one.

It sold poorly, it's cited as one of the reasons Lionhead layed off a lot of their workers a few months back. The Expansion pack buisiness is low risk with a high profit margin.

As trivial fun as the AI was, the game itself was so obviously incomplete and half broken in certain respect (like the AI of anything that wasn't a god).

Fable got an 8.6 from Gamespot, which is a very good score. It sold well because of excellent marketting and because it was a very solid game.

No, it's an unfinished game that sold well because it had massive amounts of hype behind it. Did it in anyway live up to its promises, and I'm not talking about cut features, the answer is no. The world design is pathetic, the people who you are suppose to care about are transparently just props for the good/evil system, which had all the realworld depth of a kiddy pool, and being good or evil had no ultimate baring on your story, which was ******ed since they were saying that being either good or evil would effect anything. It was an unfinished poorly implemented Zelda clone without any dungeons, a crappy adventure, boring characters, and a simple little good/evil system, while it was the biggest false advertising in the history of video games.

Metal Gear Solid 2.

Worse than MGS2, yes.

I disagree. I got a lot of excitement out of Fable. The beginning of the game starts out with a very good tutorial, develops into a great action adventure, and then there's a bit of RPG thrown in when you're ready to leave the Guild. Once the main quest really gets going, it's nearly impossible to put down at points, mainly towards the last three or four hours. I was glued to my chair.

To me it was boring from start to finish and almost insulting. But we're all allowed to have our own opinions on things.

They do make good games, they just haven't been able to find technology amazing enough to back up their amazing ideas. I find Peter Molyneux to be more imaginative than Will Wright, as is evidenced by Populous/Dungeon Keeper vs. Sim City/Simsville (unreleased sadly, but not ambitious at all) with Black and White being far more open than anything Wright ever did until Spore. That's why their games have historically needed to be scaled back (Fable lost many features that were working, Black and White lost a few creature ideas).

Developers should make a good game within the hardware limitations, Guerilla and Lionhead, obviously, are not such developers.

Yes, because Lionheads next ambition is to recreate real life in a game, and that's certainly an idea that a 400 dollar next gen console could handle without any sacrifices, except not even the next gen consoles could get that working, because that's an idea so unrealistic that you'd need hundred of people and decades of time to make it work. He's flying to close to the sun again, and his fanboys will have the "OMG TECHNOLOGY" excuse again. Will technology ever catch up to this man? No. And that's his shortcoming as a designer.

Even The Movies, a PC release, was clearly made with the PS2 in mind, as the graphics are horrible.

The movies is not a CPU requiring blackhole.

Doubtful. You hold praise for Guerrilla, who actually sucks and doesn't employ a "gaming god".

You mean the modern day equivalent to Icarus.

Killzone WAS their second chance. Their first was Shellshock, which got evern worse reviews than Killzone. Killzone 2 is nothing to look forward to.

If you guys are going to play the "OMG IT WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW MAYBE LIONHEAD WON'T MAKE UNDERCOOKED GAMES ANYMORE! MICROSOFT MONIES LOLOLOLOLLLLLL!!!" I guess I can do the same with Guerilla even though I'm not holding my breath about it.

 

[Zenien]

I would sooner acquire crabs, but Microsoft has decided to acquire Lionhead - adding their uniqueness to its own. We have created a strange comic about it. Since Lionhead only really makes games for Microsoft platforms, this is sort of like paying someone to accept money.

I really wonder what branch of moon mathematics supports a purchase like this. It hardly looks strategic, anymore - it looks like collection. It is as though there is a bare mantle somewhere in Microsoft which must be populated with the shiny objects of the world. Lionhead develops "promising" games, but it takes too long to do it and the results rarely ascend the sheer face of their early promises. I'm glad there is a Lionhead, floating out there disembodied, trying things out, with the industry cache to maintain the experiment. I just don't know why you would buy it.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

It sold poorly, it's cited as one of the reasons Lionhead layed off a lot of their workers a few months back. The Expansion pack buisiness is low risk with a high profit margin.

As trivial fun as the AI was, the game itself was so obviously incomplete and half broken in certain respect (like the AI of anything that wasn't a god).

High profit margin? The market is no bigger than the people who bought it the first time around, so why would EA sink another few months of development money into something that can't possibly sell well? Maybe it's because EA's just really stupid, but usually games that fail get cut off then and there, no expansions, sometimes not even patches (Tribes: Vengeance).

No, it's an unfinished game that sold well because it had massive amounts of hype behind it.

If hype sold games, Advent Rising wouldn't have flopped like a dead fish. I'm sorry Zenien, but the game got both great reviews and great sales for a reason.

Did it in anyway live up to its promises, and I'm not talking about cut features, the answer is no.

And in which way aside from "Not having cut features" did it fail to live up to it's promises?

The world design is pathetic, the people who you are suppose to care about are transparently just props for the good/evil system, which had all the realworld depth of a kiddy pool, and being good or evil had no ultimate baring on your story, which was ******ed since they were saying that being either good or evil would effect anything.

Actually, the people you're supposed to care about are all main characters at the end of the game. The good/evil system effected how people in towns reacted to you, and though that didn't effect the story of the game, it did effect the game experience more than KotOR's did, and it brought the world to life in a much more believable way than I've seen in any other good/evil game.

It was an unfinished poorly implemented Zelda clone without any dungeons, a crappy adventure, boring characters, and a simple little good/evil system, while it was the biggest false advertising in the history of video games.

It's not a Zelda clone at all. I don't remember pushing blocks around, using one-purpose items to fight Zelda-style bosses (though the Hydra was fairly Zelda-style I suppose) or jumping to the next locked door to a puzzle room. No, I remember leveling my character statistics, buying new weapons and armor, getting married, killing many people, fighting rival heroes, stealing from houses, buying an entire town, et cetera. Things that have not and will not be in a single Zelda game. I don't know what you saw Fable advertised as, but going from the print and TV ads I'd say the advertising was fairly spot-on.

Worse than MGS2, yes.

Oh really? I don't recall Fable giving you ten minutes of what was shown endlessly on TV and then for the rest of the game you're a whiny loser surrounded by equally annoying supporting characters.

To me it was boring from start to finish and almost insulting. But we're all allowed to have our own opinions on things.

It's just wierd that you find Fable to have such a shallow story but then get a kick out of a Megaman plot.

Developers should make a good game within the hardware limitations, Guerilla and Lionhead, obviously, are not such developers.

Lionhead does make good games. Great even. They just don't always turn out exactly as Molyneux had hoped, because of hardware limitations.

Yes, because Lionheads next ambition is to recreate real life in a game, and that's certainly an idea that a 400 dollar next gen console could handle without any sacrifices, except not even the next gen consoles could get that working, because that's an idea so unrealistic that you'd need hundred of people and decades of time to make it work. He's flying to close to the sun again, and his fanboys will have the "OMG TECHNOLOGY" excuse again. Will technology ever catch up to this man? No. And that's his shortcoming as a designer.

No, he said to give people the chance to live their life over. Not create real life. What he said could be the blueprint for a very linear game, just offering the same choices we were along the way. However, you take that as if he's going to rebuild earth and sell it for $50.

The movies is not a CPU requiring powerhouse

.
Because it was built with the PS2's limitations in mind.

You mean the modern day equivalent to Icarus.

No, I mean Game God, as the entire game industry refers to him as.

If you guys are going to play the "OMG IT WILL BE DIFFERENT NOW MAYBE LIONHEAD WON'T MAKE UNDERCOOKED CRAP ANYMORE! MICROSOFT MONIES LOLOLOLOLLLLLL!!!" I guess I can do the same with Guerilla even though I'm not holding my breath about it.

Once again, Lionhead doesn't make crap. They just plan to make the best games ever and miss the mark because of reality. You can't blame them.

 

[Phaser]

Fable may be have been overhyped, but judging solely on it's own merits, it was a pretty good game nevertheless.

 

[Zenien]

High profit margin? The market is no bigger than the people who bought it the first time around, so why would EA sink another few months of development money into something that can't possibly sell well? Maybe it's because EA's just really stupid, but usually games that fail get cut off then and there, no expansions, sometimes not even patches (Tribes: Vengeance).

You tell me:

Disappointing sales for The Movies and Black & White 2 may have led to Lionhead Studios restructuring, a move that could cost the respected British studio some 100 employees.

http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/news/52468.shtml

If hype sold games, Advent Rising wouldn't have flopped like a dead fish. I'm sorry Zenien, but the game got both great reviews and great sales for a reason.

And what reasons would that be. MGS2 is a multimillion seller by the way.

Actually, the people you're supposed to care about are all main characters at the end of the game.

A really good trick is to make you care about everything in the game world by the end of the game, at best you should not find the game world and people to be annoying.

I don't know what you saw Fable advertised as, but going from the print and TV ads I'd say the advertising was fairly spot-on.

I do not need to bring up quotes on what the game was advertised as by your gaming god.

Oh really? I don't recall Fable giving you ten minutes of what was shown endlessly on TV and then for the rest of the game you're a whiny loser surrounded by equally annoying supporting characters.

The only annoying character was really Rose, and that's because of how long winded it was. Cut out the superfolous dialogue of MGS2 and it's a lot better, though.

It's just wierd that you find Fable to have such a shallow story but then get a kick out of a Megaman plot.

Fable has poorly executed story, bland characters (yes even the main ones) and annoying villagers. MegaMan isn't nearly as pretentious and it suceeds at the precious little it does set out to do.

No, he said to give people the chance to live their life over. Not create real life. What he said could be the blueprint for a very linear game, just offering the same choices we were along the way. However, you take that as if he's going to rebuild earth and sell it for $50.

Yes that's why he's said that he wants Demitri to recreate real life.

Once again, Lionhead doesn't make crap. They just plan to make the best games ever and miss the mark because of reality. You can't blame them.

Yes, obviously, they can be blamed for not being in reality in the first place until they have to issue a public apology for false advertising.

Black and White 2 didn't get 'great' reviews: 75.8 rounded. confused

 

[WhatsHisFace]

You tell me:
http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/news/52468.shtml

I wish they gave out the actual numbers so we wouldn't have to go by gamepro's (or anyone else's) word, but if the word on the street is that Black and White 2 performed poorly, then I'm a bit saddened. Especially since one of the leads of Warcraft was working on this game.

And what reasons would that be. MGS2 is a multimillion seller by the way.

That game was reviewed in a flurry of hype. Later on down the line when Substance came out, it recieved far lower reviews, even though it was the same game, but better. It was a multimillion seller because it's in a popular series. If a game came out exactly like it (Spy Fiction), it would have sold much worse.

A really good trick is to make you care about everything in the game world by the end of the game, at best you should not find the game world and people to be annoying.

Annoying by what standard? Pretty much any Nintendo character is more annoying than even Scarlet Rose, and if I may say so, even Shenmue's characters.

I do not need to bring up quotes on what the game was advertised as by your gaming god.

I think you're confusing "Advertisement" with "Hype". The game had been very hyped up, we've been through that already. However, the actual advertisement was not "false" in any way.

The only annoying character was really Rose, and that's because of how long winded it was. Cut out the superfolous dialogue of MGS2 and it's a lot better, though.

Yeah, let's start molding the game now. Like if you shovel hack the fences in Fable you can run around in the surrounding fields. Not exactly fair.

Fable has poorly executed story, bland characters (yes even the main ones) and annoying villagers. MegaMan isn't nearly as pretentious and it suceeds at the precious little it does set out to do.

Like Metal Gear Solid 2 had a great story? A game about Russians hijacking giant robots off a Naval Ship to prove themselves "Mother Russia" and then arbitrarily cut over to an emotional soldier who ate dynamite as a kid and has to run around butt-naked in order to take on his Doc-Ock father on top of a giant submarine that crashed into New York City?

And speaking of characters, Fable's characters were fairly believable in the context of the game. In Metal Gear Solid 2, we have a Russian Cowboy whose arm has a mind of it's own, a Vampire (!), a bullet-proof beyonce who ends up not being so bullet proof, but then is... a general who becomes a stupid AI when the writers realise there's no way to end the game with him still there... I mean really. I know double standards exist, but this is extreme.

Yes that's why he's said that he wants Demitri to recreate real life.

Well then I don't know what's worse. Him saying that's his goal, or you expecting it to happen.

Yes, obviously, they can be blamed for not being in reality in the first place until they have to issue a public apology for false advertising.

Black and White 2 didn't get 'great' reviews: 75.8 rounded. confused

They were reality, actually. A good portion of the promised features were shown off in playable builds in the years leading up to the game's release. Unfortunately, as time went on and the limitations of the Xbox hardware were becoming tighter and tighter, the team made a mad scramble, cutting out incomplete and/or buggy features and just unnecessary things to clear the overhead.

Peter Molyneux did publicly apologize, which at least shows his integrity as well as his awareness of accountability to the fans. In his apology, he did say he'd be keeping future projects much more secret to avoid this kind of fiasco again, so if he holds true to it, half of your problems with this whole Lionhead buyout will go down the drain, I expect.

Again, it's not false advertisement, because the "hype statements" were never actually advertised. If you really think you have a case, I'm sure you can chat it up with Microsoft's lawyers.

 

[Phaser]

Even though the story of MGS2 veered off into the the territory of nonsensical fairly often, I must admit that some of the twists and plot points were nothing short of pure genius - such as the whole "Snake is dead" angle (a bit predictable, but executed excellently), the Stillman/Fatman sidestory, the revelation of Arsenal gear, Snake "double-crossing" Raiden before boarding Arsenal gear and finding out in the end that Solidus was in fact a true patriot, especially when he reaches out for the Gearge Washington statue just before his last breath.

Regardless of what you may think about it's gameplay, story or even the overall title as a whole, in my opinion MGS2 is the crown jewel of real-time cinematics in games complete with Harry Gregson Williams' absolutely phenomenal score (his best work ever alongwith Spy Game), featuring scenes (and music) that even MGS3 couldn't top.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

Even though the story of MGS2 veered off into the the territory of nonsensical fairly often, I must admit that some of the twists and plot points were nothing short of pure genius - such as the whole "Snake is dead" angle (a bit predictable, but executed excellently), the Stillman/Fatman sidestory, the revelation of Arsenal gear, Snake "double-crossing" Raiden before boarding Arsenal gear and finding out in the end that Solidus was in fact a true patriot, especially when he reaches out for the Gearge Washington statue just before his last breath.

I will agree that there are moments in the story that are insanely effective, but they are like gold rings in a hog's snout. They're beautiful, but in the wrong place. Solidus reaching out to Washington was flat out beatiful, and then the next shot is Solid Snake and Raiden standing in New York talking about sex.

Regardless of what you may think about it's gameplay, story or even the overall title as a whole, in my opinion MGS2 is the crown jewel of real-time cinematics in games complete with Harry Gregson Williams' absolutely phenomenal score (his best work ever alongwith Spy Game), featuring scenes (and music) that even MGS3 couldn't top.

Yes, it has absolutely great presentation. It's still one of the best looking PS2 games out there and the cinematics were wonderfully made and very well directed. It's just that the rest of the game did not come too close to living up to the highpoints that were not gameplay.

And yes, the score is probably one of the best videogame songs ever written. I have my MP3 of it.

 

[Phaser]

I will agree that there are moments in the story that are insanely effective, but they are like gold rings in a hog's snout. They're beautiful, but in the wrong place.

Yes, it has absolutely great presentation. It's still one of the best looking PS2 games out there and the cinematics were wonderfully made and very well directed. It's just that the rest of the game did not come too close to living up to the highpoints that were not gameplay.

I don't quite agree with that. When it comes to cinematics and presentation, I think the good outweighs the bad in MGS2. Precisely because what's good is so damn good.

Solidus reaching out to Washington was flat out beatiful, and then the next shot is Solid Snake and Raiden standing in New York talking about sex.

Yeah, a number of things felt a little too contrived and unnecessary. Did Kojima really have to elaborate on the fact that Vamp was a bisexual? Did he really have to throw the whole incestual relationships in Otacon's screwed-up family? Double crosses over double crosses? Rose whining on the codec? And worst mistake of all - Raiden?!

And yes, the score is probably one of the best videogame songs ever written. I have my MP3 of it.

There were certain pieces of the game's score that aren't even on both volumes of the soundtrack - why is it that some of the best stuff always gets left out on OSTs, be they games or movies?! :

 

[Horrorfan]

It's just wierd that you find Fable to have such a shallow story but then get a kick out of a Megaman plot.


.

And the MGS games, which would have a more cohereant and enjoyable plot if it wasn't written by a lobotomised monkey.

Fable rocked. End of.

And Penny Arcade have been funny since when?

 

[Matt]

mainly towards the last three or four hours. I was glued to my chair.

Last three or four hours? The game was three or four hours long. (sorry, was just too easy not to take)

 

[Matt]

And worst mistake of all - Raiden?!

Gotta jump in here...because I do whenever someone trash talks Raiden. He really isn't that bad. Give him a hair cut and a little more experience and he will be a damn good character. MGS2 simply would not have worked from the view of Raiden. For MGS2 to work you have to see the game, and Snake through someone elses eyes. Raiden served the purpose he was meant to serve.

 

[Matt]

And just for the record, if Fable were a PS2 exclusive, WHF would have a field day with it.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I hate Lionhead. I mean, I waited maybe 2 years to buy an xbox. Didn't really care for it. Until I saw and heard about BC. THAT game was THE game. It looked and had so much potential. Sure, I wanted Half life 2, but either I was upgrading my computer, or brought an xbox.

I went on and brought and xbox (cost me a lot around that time) for BC. The game was delayed. Delayed again. And again. Finally to be cancelled.

And i'm going to hate them even more if they release it on the 360. They would be saying to me "you brought one system to play our game, and we screwed you. And now you must buy ANOTHER system for us. Own."

Grrr, stupid and evil Lionhead.

 

[WhatsHisFace]

And just for the record, if Fable were a PS2 exclusive, WHF would have a field day with it.

Like how I had a field day with God of War, Devil May Cry, Shadow of the Colossus and Ryu Ga Gotoku? Sure, Matt.

 

[Zenien]

It says that Lionhead is going to move forward making games for "Xbox and Windows" formats. So just don't get crappy Apples or Linux "PCs".

Boot Camp for macs and Ubuntu for anything else, problem solved.