Sandman Most Pointless Villian in SM3?

[Crowforge]

All the actors seem to hate it(unless they're just angling for more monies).
I don't think there are dead ends, there's still some of the venom symbiont left and Carnage could be used to fill in the new backstory on that, the lizard could happen.
I'd love to see Electro and Black Cat.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

All the actors seem to hate it(unless they're just angling for more monies).
I don't think there are dead ends, there's still some of the venom symbiont left and Carnage could be used to fill in the new backstory on that, the lizard could happen.
I'd love to see Electro and Black Cat.

Only one to slightly show dissinterest this time is tobey... Kirsten hasn't said one negative thing about it this time (unlike spidey 2).. and she said she'd come back if the stories good, and tobey and sam come back as well.

but im quite positive the holy trio of tobey,kirsten, and Sam will find it quite hard to refuse a pay increase, which would be very obvious they'd get.

 

[christpunchers]

sandman was nothing more than a glorified cameo. they only put him in for the action and in the process of trying to justify his place in this movie they have him be responsible for uncle ben's death. other than his first appearance when hes forming out of the pit everything else was done pretty badly. yeah you see him use some sand abilities but he never came through a keyhole or floated with his legs turned into sand, nothing even close to the awesomeness of the t1000 (or whoever he was) from T2. I mean wasnt expecting the moon but i think they could have given us a LOT more if they left out the badly written symbiote story and venom and maybe only introduce eddie brock and focus on just harry and sandman.

 

[xxGreenGoblinxx]

If you think Sandman was the most pointless villian, you A: either need to see the movie again or B: are a Dumb-ass

Sandman was the heart of the overall theme of this movie, which was Forgivness. With out him the whole movie wouldnt work Sandman was in the movie to test Peters anger and to show him that everybody can be forgiven, even though some are unable to do so, if anything Venom was the pointless villian he couldnt forgive thus he may have died.

 

[Alex]

The Sandman character helped bring out the worst in Peter and helped him see the error of his ways.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

god, whats with the flood of newbies?

 

[xxGreenGoblinxx]

Now dont get me wrong I loved Venom in the movie and thought he should have been in the movie, but the movie could of worked just fine without him, Im glad he was in there and I hope Venom is in the 4th film, but if were gonna throw out labels like "most pointless villian" Venom recives the award.

 

[christpunchers]

Lol who knows. kids coming to defend spidey's honor maybe?

im sure sandman in raimi's original vision was a much bigger character. but his story was barely scratched in the movie. we only saw his daughter once, and despite knowing how great THC's acting ability is, in this movie he only had ONE emotion and ONE face (pretty much). I dunno maybe in the final fight they needed to make him bigger but not godzilla like and roaring like a godzilla. it made him less emotionally convincing as a man with just bad luck (the audience pretty much laughed at sandman in the final scenes). and duh, everyone realizes why sandman was put into the movie, for the forgiveness theme but the execution of the theme was horrible.

 

[Hellrider]

Sandman was pretty pointless. And the just tainted the origin story... There was absolutely no friggin point at all. And wats up with him at the end crying and leaving...Totally pointless.

 

[xxGreenGoblinxx]

Ah Fanboys, gotta love em, gotta hate em.

But really when you actually get the theme of forgivness in the film, you'll see why Sandmans part in the film was so necessary.

 

[christpunchers]

i think it is you who "dont get it". we understand sandman's role in the theme perfectly but his screentime was minimal thus the impact that he had was very subtle. he was nothing more than a plot device with cool action sequences.

 

[November Rain]

BUT- and the movie makes this CLEAR- Peter had to already be o enraged and obsessed BEFORE the symbiote could take him over. His rage called to the symbiote. Do you think the night of the symbiote's attack was the first time Peter slept since the creature attached itself to his bike? No. It was only after Peter was at the breaking point that it attacked. And- it NEVER distorted his perception. It only effected Peter's inhibitions.

If that is the case, then i feel it is somewhat a downfall of the alien lifeform seen on the big screen.

But if Peter went there knowing how to defeat Venom his strategy would've been different. As soon as he realized what the symbiote's weakness was he found a way to exploit it. It would've happened even sooner if Peter knew beforehand.

The key here really would be to have sandman be the only villain perceived at the construction site and then have venom pop up unexpectedly (and thus making the point that he doesn't set off one's spidersense). This would alleviate the problem

Peter didn't need to prep before the battle. I'm saying that knowing what the symbiote's weakness was, he'd have, rather than trying to slug it out with Venom, started ringing his bell, literally. Sandman he could've dodged while continuing to soften Venom up.

But the beauty of this type of set up is just like the beauty of a typical doc ock set up.

Parker can knock out ock with one punch typically, eveyone knows that. The beauty is giving pete that one opportunity to do it and that is where the tension is built up.

Now with when the shock value of venom has calmed itself down and pete then realises he requires sound to take him out, the tension can come from sandman not giving him the opportunity to do so by always counter attacking spidey and keeping him away from any form of pipe.

 

[jakinj]

Now dont get me wrong I loved Venom in the movie and thought he should have been in the movie, but the movie could of worked just fine without him, Im glad he was in there and I hope Venom is in the 4th film, but if were gonna throw out labels like "most pointless villian" Venom recives the award.

I agree. Sandman was far more prominent than Venom was in the movie. At one point when Venom did his goofy grin I was thinking, "ok he looks like a muppet."

 

[The Shape]

Not only was Sandman a pointless villian that barely added anything to the story, Thomas Haden Church SUCKED. I thought he would be so good in this role, but he lacked any real emotion.

Aside from the fact that he looked like a doll in every scene (human form, at least), his voice had the same tone, besides grunting. Over and over again...that same damn emotionless tone. "My daughter...my daughter...my daughter." Even at the end, in what should have been an emotional scene when he was crying, it was the same face/voice with tears rolling down his face.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I thought Church did a good job with what he was given.


I just hated the way Sandman drifted away into the sky, killed Uncle Ben, and only made his arm into a sand mallet. Those 3 things took away from him as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Frodo]

IMO, Raimi should have given Brock Sandman's back story . Here's what I would have done:

Brock could have been the one with the sick daughter and the ex wife who hates him . He could still be a loser but a loser who's loves his kid . Maybe he's the type of guy who let his wife and his daugther down . He always cuts corners, makes excuses, and blames others for his problems. Money wise he's a dead beat dad but he thinks the world of Penny. That's why he works for gossip rags and makes up stories , for the money.

The line ,"I'm not a bad guy , I've just made bad choices" fits perfectly . Now his daughter really needs the money for her illness . Now There's more of a motivation Brocks for framing Spiderman . He actually needs the money for the story and pictures.

Dark Peter finds out and exposes Brock , thus getting him fired . Now he feels his daughter has been given a death sentance . He tells his ex at the hospital he can't pay the money and she's tells him to leave. He see's his daughter in the bed and is crushed . Now he goes to the church , and blames Peter Parker for not having the money killing his daughter . Brock asks to trade his own life for hers . Then as he's at his lowest he hears Peter taking off the symboite .

Didn't Brock have an ex-wife and kid in the comics anyway?

 

[CrashNburn]

I thought Church did a good job with what he was given.


I just hated the way Sandman drifted away into the sky, killed Uncle Ben, and only made his arm into a sand mallet. Those 3 things took away from him as far as I'm concerned.

i agree. church did great but i felt he was barely in the movie. it was awesome cgi to bring sandman to live. his ending sucked!

 

[Raniburger]

I actually thought that the scene where Sandman first appears was very creative and well crafted. The problem is, following that - all he really did was turn his fist into a mallet, turn into a sand cloud and/or turn into a giant monster.

Somebody mentioned in an earlier post that they would have liked to have seen him in a sort of cloud mode from the waist down - and when I read that I agreed, and then started to think about some of the other things they could have done with him.

It would have been cool to see him (regular size) fighting Spidey, taking punches (like in the security truck) and then melting down to the floor before coming up behind Spidey to attack again. Close quarter fighting (when shot well) is much more appealing to me then having Spidey shoot web balls at some giant monster.

He could have also used his abilities in a more stealthy fashion, by perhaps sneaking up on Spidey as a small sand trail on the ground reminiscent of the now famous scene in T2. Actually, that scene could have played out upside down, with sand particles dropping down from the ceiling to build Sandman up into human form from the feet up.

I just feel that there some visual opportunities for some good action scenes that were wasted. What other suggestions do you guys have for things that he could have done (or have done to him)?

 

[drmick]

I'm also of the opinion that Sandman would have been the best character to remove (Which is essentially what they did to cut the running time!).

Unfortunately he was has been with the film since its inception (allegedly a favourite of both Maguire and Raimi, although I'm not sure why). Thus he could never be removed without major re-organisation of the production.

In terms of forgiveness as a theme, I don't see how Brock, Harry, MJ or even GWen could not have filled a similar purpose.

The giant Sandman scenes were also strangely lacking, and the giant version should only have been used once.

 

[Kaizer104]

Sandman is a much more important villain in SM3 than what the movie alone shows. Seriously, SM3 is a movie that you have to look at multiple times or with an abstract thought process to understand completely. The novel explains quite a few things which DOES show how Sandman relates to the story.

But basing it just on the movie, without Sandman, it doesn't show the gradual decline in Peter's behavior as the symbiote influences his inner desires further. As Spider-Man/Peter Parker wears the suit, he gradually becomes more addicted to it, more ruthless about how he does things. I don't think he really wanted to "kill" Sandman but the symbiote did sort of let him accept that he did what he did. The Spiderman mask may be covering his expression, but I think that behind the mask, he might've been a bit shocked at what he just did. If it just had Peter beating up New Goblin/Harry until trying to finish him, it would just make it look like the symbiote makes him automatically turn evil. If I remember correctly, doesn't Brock state that the Symbiote cannot make you do what you don't want to do?

Sandman is what helps people realize the decline and rise in Peter's behavior. Though he's missing his more important plot scenes, he stays pretty similar to himself throughout the story. Peter shows how wearing the black suit makes him gradually more ruthless towards people. He doesn't do what he does in the red and blue while wearing the black. When he's back in his normal colors, we can see the definite change in attitude that occurs. While Osborn showed Peter forgiveness, Sandman showed Peter how to GIVE it.

 

[Spideyfan01]

I thought Sandman was supposed to be the main villian, but he was barley in the movie! And, WTF was up with the giant sand creature?!

 

[The Shape]

Apparently they cut out several scenes of Marko with his daughter and wife, and his interaction with a Dr. Wallace. But even with those scenes, I feel that the character would have been lame.

The effects were spectacular. The one scene where he forms himself for the first time is awesome. However, he seemed so one-dimensional in the film. He always had the same expression on his face, always had his daughters locket in his hand (strangely in almost every shot he was in), and was always talking about his daughter.

 

[drmick]

Finally saw it a second time today.

For some reason giant Sandman reminded me of the giant Gingerbread man from Shrek 2, not only in appearance, but especially in vocals too! "Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!"

Am I the first person to have mentioned this on the web???

 

[ProfeZZor X]

What should have happened for this story was to have Harry try to regain his dignity and respect (again), by funding some new project from the discovery of the symbiote. Something goes wrong with the experiment, Spidey saves the day, symbiote attaches itself to Peter in the process, and all is well for a while. Peter encounters the "New Goblin", while at the same time, the symbiote influences Peter with more agression towards Harry. MJ goes through her troubles, while "dark Peter" gets in trouble at work through Brock. Peter "pimp slaps" MJ, feels remorse, and immediately tears off the suit at the nearby church. Brock sees Peter in church shedding the suit, and voila... Venom.

Later on, Peter meets his match with Venom in battle, and Harry finally redeems himself to Peter by helping erradicate Venom by sacraficing himself. All of that could have been done without the Sandman element.

Even so, it seemed like old "Sandy" became dumber as he increased in size. Hence the groans and moans instead of words. He kind of reminded me of the mud monster he and Hydroman became at one point, when Sandman was at full size. Still, I thought it was a cop out that with all that power of being animated sand, he didn't take advantage of it.... All because he just wanted to cure his daughter.

 

[SpideyZERO]

I just discovered that Sandman, a being made of sand, can actually cry. Apparently being washed away in the sewer evolved him somehow