Sean Mckeever is dooing the Teen titans

[Darthphere]

how that issue where he tried to sneak into the police station to steal evidence only to get caught in the act and then sneak out wearing a police uniform. that was dumb as hell. why didn't he just dress up like an officer in the first place? he was trained by a master of disguise. plus, what does it say for all the training that he got from batman in regards to stealth if he gets caught by a fat cop munching on donuts and watching tv alone in the evidence room?

also, that little fight between him and shiva where he actually managed to knock her down. i didn't buy it.

there's probably more but that's all i can remember off the top of my head.

Hmm, wouldn't that be the same argument as Batman can beat a whole army of White Martians but some random street thug always gives him some trouble, even getting some hits in? I mean really, c'mon.

 

[sinewave]

As far as I recall, the only editorially mandated thing in Sins Past was that Peter couldn't be the father. Even if Peter were the father, however, Sins Past would've still sucked beyond reckoning. Just slightly less.

Leaguer coverd the Beechen/Batgirl issue nicely. I don't care who decided Batgirl should be evil. Beechen's the one who decided Batgirl would be evil because of daddy issues with Bruce and Cain, which is pretty much the worst idea ever. Beechen's the one who decided that Robin's fighting-without-style 'technique' would be effective against the world's greatest hand-to-hand fighter, 'cause throwing sloppy, random punches has just gotta work against anyone. Beechen's the one who, after retconning his dumb-ass original story away, still failed to comprehend anything at all about Batgirl's character by having her declare that she would kill Deathstroke over and over again. Beechen ****ed Batgirl up every which way, and it's sad that people feel the need to defend him based on his mediocre other work. If Countdown could still make sense without Beechen's issues, I'd steal every copy of them from my shop and burn them.

good points. i forgot about those.

 

[sinewave]

Hmm, wouldn't that be the same argument as Batman can beat a whole army of White Martians but some random street thug always gives him some trouble, even getting some hits in? I mean really, c'mon.

call it nitpicking if you want, but that kind of lack of attention to detail grates on me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Those kinds of details annoy me, too. I hate how inconsistent Batman and most other characters are from comic to comic. But I've accepted it as an unavoidable symptom of the comics medium.

That was Johns story from the get go. He made Cassandra that way, remember that Beechen only scripted those last two issues, he was working off of Johns story, and Johns made her say the same thing when he was writing the issue all by his lonesome. See, that's why the Beechen hate is so irrational.

EDIT: I do however agree that he is a mediocre writer, but nowhere near as bad as you guys want him to be. I get that you guys are passionate about Cassandra Cain as she has her little niche internet following, but really, it's time to move on. If I hated every writer because they ****ed up a favorite character of mine, I probably wouldn't even be typing this right now as I would have given up comics a long time ago.

Clearly it's not time to move on because I still spew vitriol at the mere mention of Beechen's name. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be cleaning some vitriol off my monitor for the next few minutes.

 

[Darthphere]

call it nitpicking if you want, but that kind of lack of attention to detail grates on me.

So, you admit to nitpicking.

Clearly it's not time to move on because I still spew vitriol at the mere mention of Beechen's name. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be cleaning some vitriol off my monitor for the next few minutes.

Like I said, Beechen is medicore but he writes the best Robin around, as in the character not the title. His plots are usually lame, predictable and overall uninteresting, but he gets Tim right on the money IMHO and his whole romantic jungle fever relationship is a lot more interesting than anything he does in costume on the title. I honestly think all Beechen needs is a co-writer or something.

You may continue the spewing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Tim's soured on me as a whole thanks to the wannabe-Dick routine they've put him into now. I am so far from interested in reading anything about him bonding with Daddy Bruce or chafing under their new relationship or living in Wayne Manor or being constantly compared to Dick (and for that matter Jason) because he went through the exact same things, etc. Tim used to be one of my favorite characters because he brought so many fresh and interesting new spins on the established Robin model, but now it seems like DC's stopped struggling and just allowed him to become Dick Jr.

 

[sinewave]

So, you admit to nitpicking.

nice try.

i didn't say i consider it nitpicking, i said you can call it that if you want, but i see it as taking umbrage with sloppy writing.

Like I said, Beechen is medicore but he writes the best Robin around, as in the character not the title. His plots are usually lame, predictable and overall uninteresting, but he gets Tim right on the money IMHO and his whole romantic jungle fever relationship is a lot more interesting than anything he does in costume on the title. I honestly think all Beechen needs is a co-writer or something.

You may continue the spewing.

awww, come on. you know the only reason you like him is 'cause he created killa nilla.

i don't see what's so special about his characterization of tim. it's not bad, but nothing jumps out at me as being better than previous writers on this book.

 

[Darthphere]

Tim's soured on me as a whole thanks to the wannabe-Dick routine they've put him into now. I am so far from interested in reading anything about him bonding with Daddy Bruce or chafing under their new relationship or living in Wayne Manor or being constantly compared to Dick (and for that matter Jason) because he went through the exact same things, etc. Tim used to be one of my favorite characters because he brought so many fresh and interesting new spins on the established Robin model, but now it seems like DC's stopped struggling and just allowed him to become Dick Jr.

You gotta roll with the series of punches like Hal, Corp. Welcome to the new DCU where everything old is new again. I mean, I seriously agree with you when I say that DC is going to make Babs Batgirl again, it's only a matter of time.

awww, come on. you know the only reason you like him is 'cause he created killa nilla.

i don't see what's so special about his characterization of tim. it's not bad, but nothing jumps out at me as being better than previous writers on this book.

Killa Nilla is the best thing to come out of OYL, Corp even says so.

And I'm talking about OYL, Johns wrote him all emo trying to clone Conner again, Morrison had him get his ass kicked by that little ******, and Dini hasn't really used him a lot. So there you go.

 

[sinewave]

Killa Nilla is the best thing to come out of OYL, Corp even says so.

And I'm talking about OYL, Johns wrote him all emo trying to clone Conner again, Morrison had him get his ass kicked by that little ******, and Dini hasn't really used him a lot. So there you go.

oh yeah, as far as OYL he's probably the best of that bunch, but that's not saying much. i'm looking forward to seeing how mckeever handles him. one thing i'd like to see is tim acting like an adult. i'm sick of writiers and artists continuing to treat him like he's still 15.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Killa Nilla is indeed the best thing to come out of the OYL disaster zone. Checkmate follows closely behind.

Didn't Dini have Tim solve a mystery by himself and kick the Joker's ass? Or am I remembering that through rose-colored lenses?

 

[Darthphere]

Killa Nilla is indeed the best thing to come out of the OYL disaster zone. Checkmate follows closely behind.

Didn't Dini have Tim solve a mystery by himself and kick the Joker's ass? Or am I remembering that through rose-colored lenses?

Yeah, that was the X-Mas issue, but other than that, really nothing, he was featured prominently in those ******* issues, but that wasn't Dini.

 

[sinewave]

Yeah, that was the X-Mas issue, but other than that, really nothing, he was featured prominently in those ******* issues, but that wasn't Dini.

that ******* story sucked. tim can dodge bullets but not a money shot? lame.

 

[The Leaguer]

It's kind of depressing that the comic book industry has beaten down Phere to the point that he's so accepting of bad storylines.

 

[Darthphere]

It's kind of depressing that the comic book industry has beaten down Phere to the point that he's so accepting of bad storylines.

It's so true, on a whole I'm kind of disillusioned with the big two right now, as they clearly have no idea what they're doing anymore. I mean, retro is not cool, seriously. People that wear members only jackets should be shot on sight.

I mean, you have books like X-Factor and Checkmate that stay on the side of awesome, but now Checkmate is being forced into this crossover with The Outsiders and X-Factor is playing a role in that upcomign X-Event.

 

[sinewave]

It's so true, on a whole I'm kind of disillusioned with the big two right now, as they clearly have no idea what they're doing anymore. I mean, retro is not cool, seriously. People that wear members only jackets should be shot on sight.

I mean, you have books like X-Factor and Checkmate that stay on the side of awesome, but now Checkmate is being forced into this crossover with The Outsiders and X-Factor is playing a role in that upcomign X-Event.

settle down, roger. retro is almost always cooler than contemporary. just look to james robinson's starman for proof. that whole series was a love letter to retro style.

 

[Darthphere]

settle down, roger. retro is almost always cooler than contemporary. just look to james robinson's starman for proof. that whole series was a love letter to retro style.

Yeah, that's one example on how to do it right. Reverting all your characters to the way they were in the sixties is doing it wrong, which is what DC is doing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The funny thing is that JSA used to be just the right kind of retro. Now even it's got its crappy parts because Johns :heart: the Silver Age and Kingdom Come so much.

 

[sinewave]

Yeah, that's one example on how to do it right. Reverting all your characters to the way they were in the sixties is doing it wrong, which is what DC is doing.

yeah, i wonder how much pull alex ross has with DC lately. it seems to be following his whims.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's pretty obvious that Johns, Meltzer, and Waid all love the Silver Age and want to re-incorporate it, too. Singling Ross out isn't really fair.

 

[yenaled]

I dunno, Waid has for many years been able to move on with new ideas and not just fall onto old Silver Age things.

 

[Darthphere]

I dunno, Waid has for many years been able to move on with new ideas and not just fall onto old Silver Age things.

True, he is the guy that wrote Birthright aka let's make Superman's origin all Smallville like.

 

[sinewave]

It's pretty obvious that Johns, Meltzer, and Waid all love the Silver Age and want to re-incorporate it, too. Singling Ross out isn't really fair.

those other guys dip into the silver age occasionally, but not as bad as ross.

 

[Anubis]

Ross doesn't even really dip into the silver age. He's strickly Super Friends.

 

[sinewave]

Ross doesn't even really dip into the silver age. He's strickly Super Friends.

not in "liberty and justice" he's not. "justice" is pretty heavy on the superfriends, but that's the only one i can think of that incorporated them into the story.

 

[Anubis]

Yes in Liberty and Justice.