DC bringing back "The Titans"

[Varient]

It wasn't really Jay, at least. They had a JSA story where they revisited that moment and we learn that Jay's been haunted by it ever since, though.

My issue is that they used the same gimmick to get rid of my favorote speedster,... Max Mercury.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't even remember how Max died. Didn't he just disappear into the Speed Force, and it was assumed that he would pop up sometime later, just like he hopped through time before?

 

[Varient]

I don't even remember how Max died. Didn't he just disappear into the Speed Force, and it was assumed that he would pop up sometime later, just like he hopped through time before?

He became possessed by this thing and was thrown into time while still possessed.

Sigh.

You'd think that Wally and Jay and esp Impulse would've CARED enough to go looking for him.

V.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There was probably some editorial mandate to pare down the Flash family. That seems to be the main reason for characters mysteriously disappearing.

 

[yenaled]

There was a mandate, hence why Johnny and Jesse Quick disappeared.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Figures. Why the **** does DC hate building families around their core characters? That was one of my main draws back when I started getting into DC: none of their heroes were truly alone. The Flash had Jay, Johnny Quick, Jesse Quick, Impulse, and Max Mercury to rely on, Wonder Woman had Wonder Girl and Donna, Green Lantern had Hal as the Spectre, John Stewart, Jade, and Alan Scott--even Batman had Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Oracle, and other associates that weren't as close. And there was nothing wrong with it.

 

[Varient]

There was probably some editorial mandate to pare down the Flash family. That seems to be the main reason for characters mysteriously disappearing.

There was a mandate, hence why Johnny and Jesse Quick disappeared.

Sigh.

So who decided such stupidity?

Harsh words I know,.. but they had a chance to have a true super-speed community, similar to the Bat family, the Super family and kinda the Wonder fam.

EDIT: MEH Corp beat me to it,...

 

[yenaled]

Figures. Why the **** does DC hate building families around their core characters? That was one of my main draws back when I started getting into DC: none of their heroes were truly alone. The Flash had Jay, Johnny Quick, Jesse Quick, Impulse, and Max Mercury to rely on, Wonder Woman had Wonder Girl and Donna, Green Lantern had Hal as the Spectre, John Stewart, Jade, and Alan Scott--even Batman had Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Oracle, and other associates that weren't as close. And there was nothing wrong with it.

Well it was the same all over the DCU with Green Lantern; Alan to Sentinel, John to cripple, Guy to Warrior and Hal to Parallax. Then Aquaboy became Tempest and Wonder Girl became a Darkstar.

At the time DC were very concerned about the big 7 being very unique. It makes sense in an editors mind "we want these characters to stand out in the universe" especially with giving the JLA back to them - but it doesn't make much sense from a creative/writing standpoint.

And yeah I agree, what has always stood out for me in the DCU is family, relationships and legacy in the characters.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't mind stuff like Donna becoming a Darkstar or Alan changing his name to Sentinel. Those are just cosmetic changes. But just randomly offing characters because some suit decided there were one too many speedsters in the universe pisses me off.

 

[RockSP]

what has always stood out for me in the DCU is family, relationships and legacy in the characters.

Even that can be taken too far.

And a note to the powers that be: just because someone is in your "family", it doesn't mean they have to have the exact same powerset.

 

[Varient]

(smile)

"Or that they are in the same power range"

I was always annoyed that the teens could keep up with their older, larger, stronger, versions.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But... they can't. Wonder Girl (the current one) and Superboy were pretty clearly portrayed as being a tier below their respective mentors, and even Tim Drake ain't got nothin' on Batman.

 

[Green Lantern]

But... they can't. Wonder Girl (the current one) and Superboy were pretty clearly portrayed as being a tier below their respective mentors, and even Tim Drake ain't got nothin' on Batman.

Except MAYBE in the detective game. And thats a MAYBE.

 

[Varient]

But... they can't. Wonder Girl (the current one) and Superboy were pretty clearly portrayed as being a tier below their respective mentors, and even Tim Drake ain't got nothin' on Batman.

Except MAYBE in the detective game. And thats a MAYBE.

Maybe I said it wrong.

I remember stories where Barry and Wally were in a hurry,... Kid flash could keep up.

Green Arrow and Speedy would fire arrows at the same speeds with the same level of accuracy.

Wonder girl,.. (Donna) had all the powers and could do the bullets and bracelets

Robin was able to wade in with Batman into a sea of thugs and comeout on top,.. the current Robin in his own book has been doing stuff Batman would have trouble surviving,....

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I never had a problem with Barry and Wally. GA and Speedy is a different story. I always thought Roy wasn't quite as good as Ollie, but he made up for it by being far more versed in a bunch of other weapons when he got to the Arsenal stage. Wonder Girl always struck me as a bit less powerful than Wonder Woman, but my exposure to Donna as Wonder Girl is very limited, so I could be wrong on that. Dick was always a very physical character, so his keeping up with Bruce is no big deal to me. Tim seems to get his ass kicked a lot, as it should be, since he's more of a brain than a fighter anyway.

Except MAYBE in the detective game. And thats a MAYBE.

He still needs some conditioning. I fully believe Tim is even smarter than Bruce; but he's still a teenager and he hasn't had quite the rigorous training or experience Bruce has.

 

[CBG]

Figures. Why the **** does DC hate building families around their core characters? That was one of my main draws back when I started getting into DC: none of their heroes were truly alone. The Flash had Jay, Johnny Quick, Jesse Quick, Impulse, and Max Mercury to rely on, Wonder Woman had Wonder Girl and Donna, Green Lantern had Hal as the Spectre, John Stewart, Jade, and Alan Scott--even Batman had Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Oracle, and other associates that weren't as close. And there was nothing wrong with it.

Well, at least DC has Marvel beat in the 'legacy department'.

Then again, I don't think Marvel ever tried to use that niche.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Nah, Marvel's made it pretty clear that the people in their costumes are going to be the same for the long haul. I would be absolutely stunned if Steve Rogers doesn't come back at some point.

Granted, I'm starting to feel that way with DC's characters at this point, too. Thank you very much, Mr. Allen.

 

[RockSP]

There's been several Caps, Buckies, Goliaths, Cap Marvs, etc.

Marvel does the legacy thing too.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Usually it's only temporary or it's because the character has moved on to a new name, though. Marvel didn't really have anything like Barry dying and Wally really and truly becoming the Flash in his own right. The closest they came to that before Bucky is the Human Torch, what with Johnny Storm taking the name and making it his own after Hammond was out of the picture, but even then, there was virtually no connection between the two characters besides powers. It wasn't a sidekick fulfilling the promise and actually taking up the mantle, it was some dude who happened to gain similar powers and decided to call himself the same thing.

But, again, it looks like DC isn't even sticking to their guns on the legacy front anymore.

 

[The Eagle Host]

Everyone cares about Flash and Green Lantern and Wonder Woman. No one gives a s*** about Bucky or Goliath or Captain Marvel.

 

[CBG]

Their latest try is with Phyla-Vell as Quasar.

But so far, I rather have Wendell back.

 

[Green Lantern]

Maybe I said it wrong.

I remember stories where Barry and Wally were in a hurry,... Kid flash could keep up.

Green Arrow and Speedy would fire arrows at the same speeds with the same level of accuracy.

Wonder girl,.. (Donna) had all the powers and could do the bullets and bracelets

Robin was able to wade in with Batman into a sea of thugs and comeout on top,.. the current Robin in his own book has been doing stuff Batman would have trouble surviving,....

Eh, I never had a problem with Barry and Wally. GA and Speedy is a different story. I always thought Roy wasn't quite as good as Ollie, but he made up for it by being far more versed in a bunch of other weapons when he got to the Arsenal stage. Wonder Girl always struck me as a bit less powerful than Wonder Woman, but my exposure to Donna as Wonder Girl is very limited, so I could be wrong on that. Dick was always a very physical character, so his keeping up with Bruce is no big deal to me. Tim seems to get his ass kicked a lot, as it should be, since he's more of a brain than a fighter anyway.

He still needs some conditioning. I fully believe Tim is even smarter than Bruce; but he's still a teenager and he hasn't had quite the rigorous training or experience Bruce has.

1. Kid Flash to Flash, both of them draw from the same source for their speed, if anything Wally in his teens should have been faster with less weight resistance.

2. Speedy to Green Arrow, Roy has always been an amazing sharpshooter, even before Ollie took him on as a mentor. Age doesn't have much to do with how well someone can aim... The day he met Ollie, Roy shot an individual feather off of a hawk's tail.

3. Wonder Girl to Wonder Woman, Diana's an Amazon... Donna's a goddess. You do the math.

 

[Varient]

1. Kid Flash to Flash, both of them draw from the same source for their speed, if anything Wally in his teens should have been faster with less weight resistance.

2. Speedy to Green Arrow, Roy has always been an amazing sharpshooter, even before Ollie took him on as a mentor. Age doesn't have much to do with how well someone can aim... The day he met Ollie, Roy shot an individual feather off of a hawk's tail.

3. Wonder Girl to Wonder Woman, Diana's an Amazon... Donna's a goddess. You do the math.

No heat,...:
1. But at one point Wally stated that he doubted Barry was still Human,... Bary Ignored the laws of Physics that Wally had to obey and had been "disintegrated" more than once only to maintaing control of his molucules and reintergrate.
Having all that,... even with a mainline to the speed force,.. Wally should not have been able to stay in step with someone who could pick and choose what laws to obey.

2. Can't argue skill other than to say that GA was supposed to have been doing it longer,.. Yet we never saw roy slacking until he did drugs.

3. Diana is a golem with the combined powers of Gods,.. and was the Goddess of Truth at one point - so Donna still shouldn't be on her level.

V.

 

[Green Lantern]

No heat,...:
1. But at one point Wally stated that he doubted Barry was still Human,... Bary Ignored the laws of Physics that Wally had to obey and had been "disintegrated" more than once only to maintaing control of his molucules and reintergrate.
Having all that,... even with a mainline to the speed force,.. Wally should not have been able to stay in step with someone who could pick and choose what laws to obey.

2. Can't argue skill other than to say that GA was supposed to have been doing it longer,.. Yet we never saw roy slacking until he did drugs.

3. Diana is a golem with the combined powers of Gods,.. and was the Goddess of Truth at one point - so Donna still shouldn't be on her level.

V.

How do you get that GA had been doing it longer? Roy had been doing it since he was about 6... so 7 years by the time GA found him. GA had been active for a year so... 2 years of good experience.

 

[Manic]

I got the impression from Green Arrow: Year One that Ollie did archery recreationally, and didn't get really serious or incredibly good until he had to use archery to survive living on that island. Roy was kinda raised into archery by the people who adopted him on the Rez. For all we know, Ollie and Roy could've had the exact same number of years in archery experience. I'm not quite sure, of course, since I have no clue how old Ollie is supposed to be.

Diana was given her powers by the Olympian gods, and Donna got hers from the Titan gods (who were the parents of the Olympians). Potentially, they could have the exact same power level, or either one could be more powerful (even Donna). It's easily balanced by the fact that Donna has rudimentary training from the Titans, while Diana has practically been fighting since her birth.