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House of the Dragon Season 1 Episode 4 "King of the Narrow Sea"

Discussion in 'Game of Thrones' started by Kane52630, Sep 5, 2022.

  1. squeekness The mighty squeek!

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    I actually had the idea that Criston had real feelings for the Princess so I easily shipped them. I thought his early protests were more about his lowly station than an actual unwillingness.
     
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  2. Weather Witch Likes Sand

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    That's an interesting take to be honest. Thank you for sharing! Though even if it's just because of his station, there is the fact that he had doubts, right? He told her to stop, clearly was uncomfortable, and tried to leave. Even if he does clearly have feelings for her, doesn't that still put her in the wrong?

    It honestly reminds me a bit of a trope I despise where, when this happens to female characters, it's said that "it became consensual by the end." His no was pretty clear, even if he did go through with it. No still means no, right?

    Honestly, I think this entire episode proves what the perspective of a female director can do. These are the most nuanced sex scenes in this franchise by a mile. With a real focus on power dynamics and intent. It was a masterfully executed episode.
     
    #52 Weather Witch, Sep 13, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
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  3. CaptainWagner I'm A Worrier, It's What I Do (P) (he/him)

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    There's absolutely a problematic power imbalance there, but I definitely read his hesitation as being reluctant to throw away his honor & vows (on penalty of death) to sleep with her. Once he set aside his cloak, he seemed pretty into it.

    But yeah, the sex scenes in this episode were in a whole different ballgame from anything the franchise has done before. The director choice was a game-changer and I can't wait to see what else she'll be bringing to the table this season. (Four episodes directed by women this season - same number as in the entire eight season run of GOT)
     
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  4. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    I’m with you on both, but I’m not surprised what people cheer for as GoT morality is a fair bit more twisted than real life and people have got used to seeing this for 8 seasons already. GoT was absolutely stacked with great characters but 95% of them were absolute *******s!
     
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  5. #root Registered

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    Man, this episode had me feeling really bad for Alicent :(.
    This continues to be my biggest issue. Second episode was 6 months after the first. 3 years passed between 2 and 3. And this episode Daemon mentioned Rhaenyra having matured in the last 4 years (by which I assume he was talking about the last time he saw her in episode 2). So time is flying by in-between episodes but it seems like nothing happens offscreen. Rhaenyra and Viserys start off each episode wherever they ended the last. Rhaenyra has been giving Alicent the cold shoulder for the last however many years and just this episode started to make amends.

    It’s not a huuuge issue, I understand that they’ve got a lot to cover and a lot of time is passing sometimes even between scenes. I just wish they were doing a better job at conveying the passage of time.
     
    #55 #root, Sep 14, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
  6. misjuevos WUUHAAAAAAAAA!

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    I see what you are saying. I think they are giving enough context to establish the passage of time though. They say how long it has been and you can see it by the subtle differences amongst the people in the various scenes. Viserys and to a lesser extent Otto show aging throughout the multiple episodes. Some not so subtle like Alicent's child is 2 and she is well into another pregnancy, or Viserys fingers. They could do like other shows and just put a "blank years" later graphic on the screen but I think they just went with an artistic choice. I can see your point though. We are getting actor changes for a couple people so that will be a really big indicator, I think in the next episode not sure.
     
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  7. CaptainWagner I'm A Worrier, It's What I Do (P) (he/him)

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    Yeah, Episode 5 is supposed to be the last episode with Young Rhaenyra and Young Alicent. Then there's one time-jump left because they've cast different age actors for the next generation of kids like Aegon.
     
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  8. Dr. From parts unknown

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    All good points. Though… Alcock’s Rhaenyra is (perhaps?) more problematic in terms of denoting the passage of time. Now maybe they have “aged” her up with changes to hairstyle, wardrobe, etc. But if so, it’s been very subtle — such that there aren’t obvious differences (at least to me) between ep. 1 (when she’s fourteen-ish) and ep. 4 (when she’s in her late teens and sexually active). I dunno. Maybe they should have brought Emma D’Arcy in earlier…? :shrug: Except… Alcock has been quite wonderful in the role.
     
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  9. Weather Witch Likes Sand

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    I'm still kinda struggling with how to interpret the later parts of this scene, but I've also seen a lot of vitriol around the discussion online, so I'm really happy with how calm it is here. The fact that it's so incredibly layered, and that it's generating these kinds of discussions, just proves how good this episode was though!

    Yes! Clare Kilner did an amazing job, not just with those scenes, but with the whole episode. The sneaking out of the Red Keep and onto the street's of King's Landing scene was absolutely electric! I can't stop gushing over it. She apparently also directed episodes 5 & 9 so that's very promising!

    Haha true, Game of Thrones morality is definitely quite something. All the different marriage proposals in the last few episodes have kinda set the tone. This episode also helped me truly embrace that absolutely all of these characters have varying shades of grey. It's less rooting for them, but following them on their respective journeys.

    I admittedly followed along a bit with some of the vitriol aimed at Alicent and Otto during the first two episodes. Last week kinda turned that around, but this week in particular I really felt for Alicent as well. She's had it so incredibly rough.
     
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  10. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    Also all those ridiculous marriage proposals probably put Rhaenyra in a rebellious mindframe to reject that system and then with the Jasmine experience of being out in the city undercover dressed as a boy and seeing how people really live and view the succession compounding that. Add going to a pleasure house to see a show like that and the rebellious Daemon would have seemed a much more attractive proposition than the kind of fools she'd been entertaining (just a shame it's her uncle but that's GoT lol). Daemon knew all this too and purposely manipulated her, but Rhaenyra then recovered the situation well when she was back in full control. Very interested to see what this all leads to next.
     
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  11. misjuevos WUUHAAAAAAAAA!

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    I agree Rhaenyra probably should have been a younger actress with her mom in the first episode, then changed to the current one after maybe episode 3.
    In the book she is 6 when Viserys becomes king. The show jumps 9 years into Viserys rule after Jaehaerys picks him. So Rhaenyra would be about 15, then a few years later would be about the same age looks wise for Milly to play her from 15 to 18. The only thing is the show doesn't have Rhaenyra as a 6 year old during the choosing by Jaehaerys. At least I didn't see her. I think she is meant to be the baby that her mom is pregnant with during the choosing.
     
    #61 misjuevos, Sep 14, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2022
  12. Sithborg Gundam Utena

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    Honestly, there is stuff I enjoy in this show. But the show is going to quickly lose 2 of the parts I really enjoy, and that is Alcock's Rhaenyra and Carey's Allicent. The highlight of the episode was seeing them friendly again. And having looked at spoilers, I'm just not eager for the upcoming Game of Thrones bull****, especially when we lose two actors I really enjoy.
     
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  13. Roose Bolton Son of Katas

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    Personally I’m really looking forward to Emma D’arcy’s Rhaenyra.
     
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  14. Weather Witch Likes Sand

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    Likewise! Milly Alcock and Emily Carey have done an absolutely amazing job obviously, but they were cast as the younger versions later on. Can't wait to see what D'Arcy and Cooke bring to the characters.
     
  15. Drizzle Registered

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    Yeah, I certainly wasn't expecting Alcock and Carey to stick around for as long as they have. I was thinking the time jump was going to happen after the first two or three episodes tops.
     
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  16. CaptainWagner I'm A Worrier, It's What I Do (P) (he/him)

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    Curious as to who the other two actors are?

    I'm guessing one is Paddy? It's going to suck losing him, he's been a revelation as Viserys. I hope they keep him around to direct a few episodes, because he's very gifted behind the camera as well.
     
  17. Sithborg Gundam Utena

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    I was talking about Carey and Millcock.
     
  18. Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    Same here, thought I'd read that somewhere. Anyway, very glad to see that they got more than that.
     

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