Ms. Marvel Season 1, Episode 5 "Time and Again" (Spoiler Thread)

[Iceman]

Great flashback stuff this episode, that was all really interesting. And the relationship between Kamala and her mum and grandma is lovely.

 

[Another_Fool]

Ok. This sucks but I don't think this episode worked for me. There are elements I like such as the Aisha subplot, touching on the political landscape prior to the Partition etc. And frankly I think there are things on paper or taken in isolation that are very beautiful like Kamala being the one who helped Sana all along. I would've loved all these if the show worked as a whole. Instead the errors of the show are robbing the emotional potential of the stuff that is working.

There's clearly a lot of things that the showrunners/Marvel wanted to accomplish with this series and unfortunately it's resulted in a rushed storyline for the villains, forced character shifts that either don't make sense or feel incredibly underdeveloped, and I feel like it's limping into the finale rather than powering into it.

I almost would've preferred that there was no villain/Clandestine element to this series so it could focus on it's strength which is the family. The stuff with Muneeba and Kamala this episode really could've been a triumph, and while it's still nice, Muneeba's relationship with Kamala feels a little forced because the episode also is dealing with other dangling issues.

I'm hopeful that the finale still can be good/fun for me, but it's a bummer that it's been such a bumpy road the past 3 episodes.

 

[Sithborg]

Upon reflection, I am not a huge fan of the change of Kamala's mother finding out about her powers this way. Granted, we only have six episodes (sigh), so the opportunity for Kamala to superhero while her mother secretly knows is small. And it continues the trend of taking conversations and situations from the comics, and twisting them into being almost unrecognizable. I genuinely like this show, but the past two episodes, while pretty good, have stripped the show of its main appeal to me, mainly Kamala and her friends.

Which speaking of, cool for Marvel to totally sideline the queer character of Kamala's supporting cast. That's so Marvel.

 

[psylockolussus]

Ugh. This was the penultimate episode and it was like the slowest/shortest episode so far... like okay. And the signature costume being saved for the finale...

 

[TheVileOne]

Ok. This sucks but I don't think this episode worked for me. There are elements I like such as the Aisha subplot, touching on the political landscape prior to the Partition etc. And frankly I think there are things on paper or taken in isolation that are very beautiful like Kamala being the one who helped Sana all along. I would've loved all these if the show worked as a whole. Instead the errors of the show are robbing the emotional potential of the stuff that is working.

There's clearly a lot of things that the showrunners/Marvel wanted to accomplish with this series and unfortunately it's resulted in a rushed storyline for the villains, forced character shifts that either don't make sense or feel incredibly underdeveloped, and I feel like it's limping into the finale rather than powering into it.

I think there are things about this show that work really well on their own, but they haven't come together in like a cohesive plot where Kamala establishes her superhero life and career. Like Iman Vellani's performance, her family and close friends, her school life, her family history are effectively done and performed. But very little has actually happened.

I almost would've preferred that there was no villain/Clandestine element to this series so it could focus on it's strength which is the family. The stuff with Muneeba and Kamala this episode really could've been a triumph, and while it's still nice, Muneeba's relationship with Kamala feels a little forced because the episode also is dealing with other dangling issues.

I'm hopeful that the finale still can be good/fun for me, but it's a bummer that it's been such a bumpy road the past 3 episodes.

I would've worked in the Wrecking Crew somehow. Maybe they have a higher level boss like Silvermane or Hammerhead who are operating in Jersey. Maybe they are causing trouble in Kamala's neighborhood and looking to stake their claim on the business so to speak. Maybe Kamala is getting mistaken or roped into the Wrecking Crew's activities by Damage Control. So it gets to a point where Damage Control gets forced to stand down and stop targeting Kamala so she can save everyone's asses from Wrecking Crew.

Also it doesn't have to be Wrecking Crew, just an example of using some mid-tier and notable Marvel rogues to liven these shows up and make them a little more exciting than doing nonsense like Tracksuit Mafia and Larpers.

I feel like what this show is missing is a good story editor to like get all these things to mesh and work as a satisfying TV season.

In Marvel Netflix's case, 13 episodes was too long. Here, six episodes isn't nearly enough.

 

[psylockolussus]

Which goes back to my #1 problem with Disney+ mcu shows, I still haven't seen anything (aside from what if?) that needed to be a siX to nine episode Xeries.

A. We are five episodes in, not much has been revealed or happened for it to be impossible not to be a 2 hour feature film. You would think Marvel Studios would take advantage of a longer runtime and eXplore more things, but they dont. They always save things for the neXt episode or the finale which affects the viewing eXperience.

b. I don't eXpect the finale to be a massive Xeries finale (based from the season finale of the previous Mcu shows). You get the costume, maybe a tease to The Marvels but the penultimate episode didn't feel like it was heading to a big finale. The antagonists here are just not good. And aside from Kamala's parents I haven't seen much from the other regular cast members.

C. SiX episodes are short, and yet we still get filler/slow moments in every episode. Now why is that? Simply because the story didn't need to be siX episodes long. By the end of it, it just feels lacking. A six episode Marvel Xeries should feel jam packed, not a 2 hour movie stretched for 4 hrs.

 

[Kane52630]

I Xisagree.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's weird cause it doesn't feel like we are building towards specific finale here. Which isn't great for a penultimate episode.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

I like a lot of stuff from this show, but the pacing and balancing of storylines is all over the place. I think they really needed to either do more episodes or have a simpler more focused plot for the episodes they have.

Also, the closed timeloop bootstrap paradox thing in this episode goes against the established MCU timetravel mechanics doesn't it?

I have a question, isn't/wasn't Damage Control supposed to be a clean-up operation? Why are they doing this enhanced/superhuman investigation/police work now?

Except in Homecoming, Damage Control was set up as a joint operation to "oversee the collection and storage of alien and other exotic materials."

That seems like a job SHIELD and/or SWORD would be more suited for.

What we know is this:
- Damage Control used to be a SHIELD subsidiary that cleaned up after SHIELD missions
- In 2012 it was taken from SHIELD and made an executive branch of the US government in a joint venture with Stark Industries where it started collecting and storing alien and other powerful tech.
- In No Way Home they had become a law enforcement agency that apprehends "enhanced individuals" like Spider-Man.

Presumably the US Government is no longer working with SHIELD after the Winter Soldier/Hydra incident and SHIELD going underground.

It seems that they made the DODC the main party responsible for enforcing the law for "enhanced individuals", enforcing the Sokovia Accords, etc.

Meanwhile SWORD seems focused on non-human threats that wouldn't be apprehended as US citizens such as "sentient weapons" and threats from space or other dimensions. You're not going to deal with a chitauri soldier or a sentient robot the same way as you would a (potentially teenage) human with superpowers. They wouldn't have the same rights.

But the DODC and SWORD may still step on each others' turf for reasons explained by SPO2 Dalisay:

In real life with have the bureaucratic organism attempt to grow and mission creep. Trying to snatch away responsibilities from other agencies is a thing. Like the F.B.I. trying to lock the A.T.F. out of the Atlanta Olympic bombing investigations or a Sheriff taking over independent transit, school, park, etc. police. It is not much of a stretch for me seeing Damage Control going further and trying to grow rather than the FBI having an ex SHIELD agent working their special cases

Now, Kamala only left with Kamran to fight. And Kamran has been built up thus far as being sympathetic to Kamala. He likes Kamala and doesn't want her hurt. He doesn't want collateral damage or to hurt others. But I guess he still has misguided loyalty to her mother and will probably blame Kamala for what happened to Najma?

Either way still anti-climactic. They haven't spent enough time on Kamran as the final person Kamala has to face.

I think the main enemy will be Damage Control actually. Kamran might get mad at her for letting his mom die and they might fight a bit over that or he may come to resent her by the end, but I think a confrontation with Damage Control makes way more sense as the final battle given that Kamran has really only been friendly and helpful this season, while Damage Control has been a consistent threat.

A big problem with these shows is a lack of cool super-powered villains to challenge and hinder the heroes.

Some of these shows could've really used some Wrecking Crew type mini-bosses.

I feel like it wouldn't have been hard to give the Clandestine more interesting powers.
They could base the characters on the actual comic Clan Destine members.
Or they could base some on Lineage his sons and recruits from the Ms. Marvel and Inhuman comics.
Or they could just give them all basic light powers like Kamala and Kamran.
There's really a lot of stuff they could've done with them to make them more interesting and both the Clan Destine and Lineage and related characters have powers that are either light based (which would work well with the Noor dimension element) or powers and storylines that could fit in really well thematically with the ancestry/intergenerational connections/family lineage stuff.

 

[TheVileOne]

Then why was SWORD sent to deal with Westview/Wanda?

 

[Spider-Fan]

Neither the Clan Destine nor Damage Control have been given a ton of time in this show. So now we are at the finale with 2 under developed threats with no clear idea who even the main villain was of this series this whole time. That isn't good.

The family stuff keeps the show from being my least favorite live action series. But it is on the lower end cause the show has I think the worst use of villains in MCU history

 

[Albright]

Wow that was bland…so finale next week?
What’s the big threat? Kamram and Bruno being held captive at the N.I.C.E HQ?
It’s a really F&WS situation for me - really enjoyed the mid episodes 3 & 4 and didn’t like 5 & 6

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Then why was SWORD sent to deal with Westview/Wanda?

Because
1. The Hex was an "anomaly". It was not initially clear what caused the Hex or that a person was responsible for it.
2. Hayward had a personal stake in continuing the operation because he wanted to get Wanda to reactivate Vision for his Project Cataract.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Then why was SWORD sent to deal with Westview/Wanda?

Real world or TV worlds are not perfect. Almost ever week on Law & Order Criminal Intent and The Closer/Major Crimes the question was always why them and not regular homicide.

However if I have the plot point correct Agent Woo came into an unknown situation and asked for help. And if not post Blip then by the time they identified Wanda as the source they knew Wanda was at a level way beyond a super soldier.

 

[Dark Raven]

This was a boring episode. For the most part it was like watching some Asian family drama or soap which I really don't care for. In fact this whole show has been too much like that. And why is the penultimate episode often the flashback episode?

 

[TheVileOne]

It's weird cause it doesn't feel like we are building towards specific finale here. Which isn't great for a penultimate episode.

In many ways this episode felt more like a finale than a penultimate episode.

 

[ComicChick]

i actually enjoyed the flashback a lot and I do find the villains subpar but I would have been okay with seeing Kamala grow more. She’s 16-ish, and I liked seeing her fumbling early on with her powers or them not working “right” like she planned. It makes sense, she’s young, inexperienced and we learned early on that she can lose focus easily.
The only real effect we have gotten to see was her scraped knee and I actually expected more of that. I don’t know how much training her and Bruno had before the time with the Red Daggers but did she really improve that much that fast? She’s doing things I didn’t expect this early ok. Not saying it in a negative, just stating. She can’t have been in Pakistan too long as it’s the middle of the school year I think? If the school year is over, they sure ended it with no preamble or mention.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I thought this episode was the first real miss and I'm generally a sucker for the partition stuff/history lesson (even in the comics, I enjoyed it). The stuff with Kamala's mom at the end was great. It just felt like there was a very long time spent with people we really haven't seen before that didn't add a ton of backstory to at least flesh out the ClanDestine and give them a greater motivation.

 

[Kane52630]

I feel like it wanted to be a bottle episode from start to finish and because Marvel told them you're getting 6 episodes, they kinda mesh it together. This show really deserves 9 or 10 episodes.

 

[Zyraquis]

It doesn’t quite work for me, when it should strike the emotional chord but it kind of but not much.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Web-Head]

This show started off so strong for me with the first few episodes, episode four had its moments and then we get to this one

I'm not sure if it would have messed with the pacing of it all, but adding these flashbacks into the mix in both episodes four and five might've been best instead of strictly focusing on almost the entirety of this episode on it.