Secret Invasion Season 1, Episode 6 - Home SPOILER Discussion Thread

[legendkillin]

I thought the Harvest was just Earth heroes Avengers battles and Captain Marvel I guess F4 too since the invisibility...how the hell did they involve GOTG abilities? Did Fury really have that much say in Endgame after being back from The Snap to have Skrulls just take DNA from everyone there? That was the only time Groot & Mantis were on Earth. I don't think they were constantly tracking GOTG in space.

 

[legendkillin]

The only shocking twist in this entire show was that decision that the president made. I was legit shocked by that, like wow wtf.

An none of it will play out in the movies, it would mean more if Val was involved in his decision making and showed up. If they had Val in a pod when we have seen her this whole time that would have been bigger. I think.

 

[legendkillin]

Rhodey being a skrull since Civil War will piss off a lot of fans since he wasn't there when Tony died. But i think it's a ballsy move, in a good way. One of the main critiques I and others have for the MCU is it playing things too safe. Honestly like the source material

Rhodey not being there adds some extra tragedy without things being in grimdark mode. And for a story that should have big implications like Secret Invasion, Rhodey being a skrull for that long is at least something

Rhodey almost dying and being paralyzed a bit would get cheapen some, I remember looking forward to him showing up and on the road to recovery. If it was just a Skrull acting that whole time it loses impact.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

The only shocking twist in this entire show was that decision that the president made. I was legit shocked by that, like wow wtf.

Well it does set the stage for nations and vigilantes to switch their target from "aliens" to mutants when the time comes. Funny thing is that the alien hybrid mutant Inhumans would have fit that narrative

I thought the Harvest was just Earth heroes Avengers battles and Captain Marvel I guess F4 too since the invisibility...how the hell did they involve GOTG abilities? Did Fury really have that much say in Endgame after being back from The Snap to have Skrulls just take DNA from everyone there? That was the only time Groot & Mantis were on Earth. I don't think they were constantly tracking GOTG in space.

I would just head cannon that it was the SOP with Fury's team first going in as S.H.I.E.L.D. then as D.O.D.C. to harvest after any encounter to pick up unknown, alien and enemy DNA. assuming that they had full medical team access to Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

[DyeLorean]

Rhodey being a skrull since Civil War will piss off a lot of fans since he wasn't there when Tony died. But i think it's a ballsy move, in a good way. One of the main critiques I and others have for the MCU is it playing things too safe. Honestly like the source material

Rhodey not being there adds some extra tragedy without things being in grimdark mode. And for a story that should have big implications like Secret Invasion, Rhodey being a skrull for that long is at least something

I wouldn't be upset if they had thought about it since Civil War and had given little hints about it, but they clearly retconned it. I don't think Don Cheadle knew he was playing a skrull, specially during his final goodbye with Tony. That's clearly Rhodey.

 

[MadVillainy]

Rhodey almost dying and being paralyzed a bit would get cheapen some, I remember looking forward to him showing up and on the road to recovery. If it was just a Skrull acting that whole time it loses impact.

I think I misunderstand.

Is he not still paralyzed? The real Rhodey?

And we never really saw Rhodey come to grips with his injury (one of my complaints about post Civil War. We got some bits at the end of CW and a line in IW, but that's it) so I don't think him being a Skrull since the end of CW would affect much. If I'm understanding you correctly

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Overall, I enjoyed the series, and that was a surprise for me. The only sci-if trope I dislike more than time travel is shapeshifters, because both are usually covers for sloppy or lazy writing. Want to have a character act differently but don’t want to do the character development work required? Just have them replaced by a changeling or time travel variant, then you can do whatever you want and (bonus!) it won’t matter because you can just kill them off and bring then original back.

On top of that, I’m not a fan of the spy/thriller genre in general. No interest in Mission Impossible or Bond flicks, bailed on Andor after the first episode, MCU film I’m least interested in rewatching is Winter Soldier, you get the picture. So if you were designing a series that I should hate, you couldn’t come up with something more on the nose than Secret Invasion.

And yet…I enjoyed it. Maybe because since it was just 6 episodes, and it moved pretty quickly. There are way too many streaming shows that seem to take 3-4 episodes to get going because they’re padding it out. So I never felt like I was slogging through something. The shapeshifting was used relatively sparingly and more like a super power versus a plot device, which I liked. Performances were good, no real surprise since we have several A-list acting types involved and the FX were well done, especially for a TV show. And I thought the finale delivered, even if it was fairly conventional stuff.

So yeah. I wouldn’t put it in my top 3 Marvel Disney+ outings but I’m blown away by the amount of hate this series has gotten online (not calling out anyone here, just in general). IMHO it doesn’t deserve it.

 

[MadVillainy]

I wouldn't be upset if they had thought about it since Civil War and had given little hints about it, but they clearly retconned it. I don't think Don Cheadle knew he was playing a skrull, specially during his final goodbye with Tony. That's clearly Rhodey.

That is a good point

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Tbh, that presidential order is hella on brand. What's shocking is that Marvel allowed it to screen lol. It was such a dark vindictive twist, but totally believable.

 

[Venom 1988]

Rhodey almost dying and being paralyzed a bit would get cheapen some, I remember looking forward to him showing up and on the road to recovery. If it was just a Skrull acting that whole time it loses impact.

I think I misunderstand.

Is he not still paralyzed? The real Rhodey?

And we never really saw Rhodey come to grips with his injury (one of my complaints about post Civil War. We got some bits at the end of CW and a line in IW, but that's it) so I don't think him being a Skrull since the end of CW would affect much. If I'm understanding you correctly

The real Rhodey is still paralyzed. He had to get carried out by 2 other people in the Skrull compound. So the earliest he could have been replaced would have been in the hospital after the airport fight in Civil War.

 

[MadVillainy]

The real Rhodey is still paralyzed. He had to get carried out by 2 other people in the Skrull compound.

Right so then I think I'm misunderstanding legenkillin's point.

 

[Venom 1988]

Right so then I think I'm misunderstanding legenkillin's point.

I must be too, cause I read it the same way lol.

 

[Iceman]

As others have said this would likely have worked better as a larger event spread across more time and films/shows with plans laid out in advance with skrull characters knowingly planted into the existing MCU storyline. Clues would be there on rewatch rather than how it is now where we know that the character wasn't really a skrull at that time even if they want to retcon that in now.

 

[BoredGuy]

I'm thinking Rhodey was taken during the 5 years of the blip, at the earliest

There's no way Gravik worked on this weakass plan for 9 years

 

[Spider-Fan]

Again, I disagree that it would have been better as a multi movie or phase event. The gimmick isn't complicated and amounts to a bunch of characters having shocking heel turns where they turn out to be Skrulls. It's basically pro wrestling where someone gets betrayed every show. That's gonna get old across movies quickly. Plus, then you have to find points where all these guys and gals got replaced, which can cause messy retcons and such. I think audiences would have rejected this storyline if it went on for any extended period of time. Heck, some are angry Rhodey may have been a Skrull in Endgame. Imagine if like, Captain America was a skrull and they made it so he was since like....Infinity War. I think this concept sounds better than it is

 

[Venom 1988]

Again, I disagree that it would have been better as a multi movie or phase event. The gimmick isn't complicated and amounts to a bunch of characters having shocking heel turns where they turn out to be Skrulls. It's basically pro wrestling where someone gets betrayed every show. That's gonna get old across movies quickly. Plus, then you have to find points where all these guys and gals got replaced, which can cause messy retcons and such. I think audiences would have rejected this storyline if it went on for any extended period of time. Heck, some are angry Rhodey may have been a Skrull in Endgame. Imagine if like, Captain America was a skrull and they made it so he was since like....Infinity War. I think this concept sounds better than it is

Yea I guarantee that if this was done as a big budget movie with more heros in it. They would have made someone like Cap or Stark a Skrull.

I'm thinking Rhodey was taken during the 5 years of the blip, at the earliest

There's no way Gravik worked on this weakass plan for 9 years

Not Gravik, but I do believe the greater Skrull community was though. Given the dialogue with the council in episode 2, I have a feeling they were planning their own version of a takeover, one that was slower and trying to slowly integrate into society. Gravik then got fed up, came up with the Super Skrull plan and decided to do a hostile takeover and become a dictator to the other Skrulls.

 

[BoredGuy]

Again, I disagree that it would have been better as a multi movie or phase event. The gimmick isn't complicated and amounts to a bunch of characters having shocking heel turns where they turn out to be Skrulls. It's basically pro wrestling where someone gets betrayed every show. That's gonna get old across movies quickly. Plus, then you have to find points where all these guys and gals got replaced, which can cause messy retcons and such. I think audiences would have rejected this storyline if it went on for any extended period of time. Heck, some are angry Rhodey may have been a Skrull in Endgame. Imagine if like, Captain America was a skrull and they made it so he was since like....Infinity War. I think this concept sounds better than it is

Well, I think the story of Secret Invasion had to either be done big, or not be done at all. Trying to limit this story and its implications to a little show with a half dozen side characters undersells it and makes its impact non-existent.

My GF is very angry about the Rhodey reveal for instance. But had that been a major mic drop moment in a movie, I think it would've gone over much better. This show has so many implications for the wider universe, and not many people will have watched it to know about it. All I could say to my gf was "Don't worry, none of this will probably ever be mentioned again." Mayyyybe Armor Wars makes some joke about "haven't been myself lately" and moves on.

I'd honestly rather they limited the multiverse story to Loki, and had Secret Invasion be the next big Saga. Multiverse crap does nothing for me, whereas if handled right, the intrigue of the Skrulls could've been cool. If it had been plotted out well for the future back during Phase 3, they could've come up with cool reveals that didn't mess with important character moments from the past. There still would've been some retcons, yes, but if handled properly I think they would have been jaw-dropping "holy s**t" moments. Thinking back to the comic, when Wolverine died months before the event, and his body reverted to a Skrull, that was a major WTF moment that added mystery and hype for the event to come.

Instead, we get one character revealed to have been a Skrull, and then Marvels and everything else will probably just ignore the massive war the US just launched on an alien race and the fact that Emilia Clarke is now far and away the most powerful character in the Universe

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, I think the story of Secret Invasion had to either be done big, or not be done at all. Trying to limit this story and its implications to a little show with a half dozen side characters undersells it and makes its impact non-existent.

My GF is very angry about the Rhodey reveal for instance. But had that been a major mic drop moment in a movie, I think it would've gone over much better. This show has so many implications for the wider universe, and not many people will have watched it to know about it. All I could say to my gf was "Don't worry, none of this will probably ever be mentioned again." Mayyyybe Armor Wars makes some joke about "haven't been myself lately" and moves on.

I'd honestly rather they limited the multiverse story to Loki, and had Secret Invasion be the next big Saga. Multiverse crap does nothing for me, whereas if handled right, the intrigue of the Skrulls could've been cool. If it had been plotted out well for the future back during Phase 3, they could've come up with cool reveals that didn't mess with important character moments from the past. There still would've been some retcons, yes, but if handled properly I think they would have been jaw-dropping "holy s**t" moments. Thinking back to the comic, when Wolverine died months before the event, and his body reverted to a Skrull, that was a major WTF moment that added mystery and hype for the event to come.

Instead, we get one character revealed to have been a Skrull, and then Marvels and everything else will probably just ignore the massive war the US just launched on an alien race and the fact that Emilia Clarke is now far and away the most powerful character in the Universe

But the mic drop moment, especially in a Saga, is gonna get old. It's just gonna be a bunch of betrayals and scenes like "Clint, give me the McGuffin" and then he does and then like Natasha goes "psyche, I am evil!!!!" and rinse repeat for a bunch of projects. Like I said, it's your tag team partner betraying you during a match at every PPV. Which is fine for pro wrestling or a soap opera, but a franchise like this, people will just stop caring. I get that comic was popular with fans at the time, but I think for a general audience, you will lose viewers very quickly with 100 similar betrayals that make you feel like the past 15 years of events not being as they seemed was a waste of time

 

[BoredGuy]

But the mic drop moment, especially in a Saga, is gonna get old. It's just gonna be a bunch of betrayals and scenes like "Clint, give me the McGuffin" and then he does and then like Natasha goes "psyche, I am evil!!!!" and rinse repeat for a bunch of projects. Like I said, it's your tag team partner betraying you during a match at every PPV. Which is fine for pro wrestling or a soap opera, but a franchise like this, people will just stop caring. I get that comic was popular with fans at the time, but I think for a general audience, you will lose viewers very quickly with 100 similar betrayals that make you feel like the past 15 years of events not being as they seemed was a waste of time

A good writer would only do those moments a couple times though, for maximum impact. You could plot out a movie with the Skrulls that wasn't all "Psyche they're a skrull!" moments. The biggest drawback, imo, is that it might feel like a retread of the "Secret Hydra" storyline from Winter Soldier.

But had they had one or two "They're a skrull" moments in a couple movies leading up to the big Secret Invasion film, then make Secret Invasion primarily about the Skrulls on attack and Veranke and Super Skrulls etc, it could've worked out without feeling like it was just repeating itself. Its about figuring out how to structure the three acts (of both the saga and the individual film) to keep it fresh and intriguing.

Idk, it's not my ideal Saga, not saying that, I just think I would've preferred it to the Multiverse which has already gone completely off the rails imo. And it would've worked better than a six episode series about Fury and a couple Spy Friends

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Between the international politics teased in "BP2", this show, Sharon's Powerbroker story, "Armor Wars", whatever's going on with Val and the "Thunderbolts", "Cap:NWO" and the growing presence of Damage Control, those could all tie together into a larger story that's being built in a really interesting way if it had been presented well, but so far it comes across (to me anyway) as random pieces that goes nowhere probably.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

A good writer would only do those moments a couple times though, for maximum impact. You could plot out a movie with the Skrulls that wasn't all "Psyche they're a skrull!" moments. The biggest drawback, imo, is that it might feel like a retread of the "Secret Hydra" storyline from Winter Soldier.

But had they had one or two "They're a skrull" moments in a couple movies leading up to the big Secret Invasion film, then make Secret Invasion primarily about the Skrulls on attack and Veranke and Super Skrulls etc, it could've worked out without feeling like it was just repeating itself. Its about figuring out how to structure the three acts (of both the saga and the individual film) to keep it fresh and intriguing.

Idk, it's not my ideal Saga, not saying that, I just think I would've preferred it to the Multiverse which has already gone completely off the rails imo. And it would've worked better than a six episode series about Fury and a couple Spy Friends

The show could've been a goldmine for paranoia and political intrigue. If people don't like their favorite characters being skrulls that seems more like a personal preference rather than something that's inherently bad.

 

[Spider-Fan]

A good writer would only do those moments a couple times though, for maximum impact. You could plot out a movie with the Skrulls that wasn't all "Psyche they're a skrull!" moments. The biggest drawback, imo, is that it might feel like a retread of the "Secret Hydra" storyline from Winter Soldier.

But had they had one or two "They're a skrull" moments in a couple movies leading up to the big Secret Invasion film, then make Secret Invasion primarily about the Skrulls on attack and Veranke and Super Skrulls etc, it could've worked out without feeling like it was just repeating itself. Its about figuring out how to structure the three acts (of both the saga and the individual film) to keep it fresh and intriguing.

Idk, it's not my ideal Saga, not saying that, I just think I would've preferred it to the Multiverse which has already gone completely off the rails imo. And it would've worked better than a six episode series about Fury and a couple Spy Friends

I dont think the Multiverse Saga has worked in the way Marvel has wanted to this point. But I do think conceptually its a better and more unique idea than the Skrulls thing would have been. I think had the Disney-Fox thing had happened earlier before they were planning Phase 4, the Mutants would have worked better and the Multiverse thing could maybe had come later, and been shorter. But they had this in the plans already so they're stuck with it now. At least through Secret Wars. As it stands though, I just don't see the potential as a Saga in Secret Invasion. Maybe a stand alone Avengers movie, but not a Saga. I could have been on board with them doing an Avengers film out of Secret Invasion before Kang Dynasty/Secret Wars. I think they made a mistake of not doing an Avengers movie to end Phase 4. So they could have done that. I just don't see a Saga here

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I dont think the Multiverse Saga has worked in the way Marvel has wanted to this point. But I do think conceptually its a better and more unique idea than the Skrulls thing would have been. I think had the Disney-Fox thing had happened earlier before they were planning Phase 4, the Mutants would have worked better and the Multiverse thing could maybe had come later, and been shorter. But they had this in the plans already so they're stuck with it now. At least through Secret Wars. As it stands though, I just don't see the potential as a Saga in Secret Invasion. Maybe a stand alone Avengers movie, but not a Saga. I could have been on board with them doing an Avengers film out of Secret Invasion before Kang Dynasty/Secret Wars. I think they made a mistake of not doing an Avengers movie to end Phase 4. So they could have done that. I just don't see a Saga here

If done well and paced well it actually could be very effective as a mini series with a few supported films. The concept is a goldmine for story branches, and not just for hidden moles but political implications and fall out too.

 

[Venom 1988]

I think they made a mistake of not doing an Avengers movie to end Phase 4.

I don't mean to stray off topic but I 100% agree. In retrospect, a smaller scale Avengers movie would have done wonders for the current state of the MCU. It would have been an early point to start connecting storylines and characters together while paving a clearer path to upcoming projects.

 

[Detective Conan]