Season 7, Episode 2 "Stormborn" Discussion Thread

[Iceman]

Ohhh thanks, bloody hell. Didn't realise the NK would actually be riding the thing on an official poster. That looks awesome! To be fair against dragons who can fly well out of the range of his troops and breathe fire from above, I assume he'd be helpless without getting one for himself (or taking out all 3 - which I have no idea how he could do). I think if a dragon gets injured from one of those devices, Dany should make sure it stays at home as it's the only path to defeat.

 

[Perfect Cell]

...It's not an official poster. The fan who made it has his screen name right in the middle of the thing.

 

[Iceman]

Oh right haha. That's a great fan poster then. I hope this happens.

 

[stillanerd]

Well, Dany can't have all the Dragon riding fun, I guess.

BTW, I'm sure I wasn't the first person to notice this, but it's only really dawning on me at just what utter nonsense Tyrion's plan really is. Not because of his

Spoiler

Having the Unsullied take Casterly Rock as a means of cutting off Cersei's ever dwindling gold supply, but look at the geography involved:

Dragonstone is North of King's Landing near the mouth of Blackwater Bay, Dorne and Sunpear is way in the south, and Casterly Rock way over on the west side of the Westros. This means that, you have two fleets of ships sailing past King's Landing. One fleet then sails all the way around Westros to Casterly Rock, which is probably quite perilous even the length involved. The other fleet sails to Sunspear then sails back to Blackwater Bay to blockcade King's Landing.

Wouldn't it have this made far more sense in terms of the story if, instead of Dragonstone, Dany's base of operations was originally at Sunspear? That way you wouldn't have this ridiculous super long trip for one fleet, or a needless back-and-forth for the other. Plus, why is one fleet heading back to Dorne to pick up Dornish troops? Considering how Varys, Lady Olenna, and the Sand Snakes are at Dragonstone, that means Dany's fleet already landed at Sunspear to pick them up before heading to Dragonstone.

Also, how was it that Euron's fleet was able to intercept Yara and the Sandsnakes, yet completely miss Greyworm and Unsullied, since both fleets are leaving from the same place, passing Blackwater Bay, and heading in the same general direction?

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Forgot to say I thought Qyburn's big reveal was absolutely farcical. Am I meant to believe no one in the history of westertos came up with that hair brained idea?

One was actually seen in use in the battle of Castle Black. The crows used one to kill a giant.

There might have been even earlier examples, but I don't remember.

 

[Perfect Cell]

I'm almost positive Stannis' ships had them when he attacked King's Landing. I seem to remember them loading one when the Wildfire ship approached.

Then again, the mind is a forest. Things get lost.

 

[Roose Bolton]

One was actually seen in use in the battle of Castle Black. The crows used one to kill a giant.

There might have been even earlier examples, but I don't remember.

Plus, I believe the Dornish used one to kill Meraxes way back.

 

[Marvolo]

Well, Dany can't have all the Dragon riding fun, I guess.

BTW, I'm sure I wasn't the first person to notice this, but it's only really dawning on me at just what utter nonsense Tyrion's plan really is. Not because of his

Spoiler

Having the Unsullied take Casterly Rock as a means of cutting off Cersei's ever dwindling gold supply, but look at the geography involved:

Dragonstone is North of King's Landing near the mouth of Blackwater Bay, Dorne and Sunpear is way in the south, and Casterly Rock way over on the west side of the Westros. This means that, you have two fleets of ships sailing past King's Landing. One fleet then sails all the way around Westros to Casterly Rock, which is probably quite perilous even the length involved. The other fleet sails to Sunspear then sails back to Blackwater Bay to blockcade King's Landing.

Wouldn't it have this made far more sense in terms of the story if, instead of Dragonstone, Dany's base of operations was originally at Sunspear? That way you wouldn't have this ridiculous super long trip for one fleet, or a needless back-and-forth for the other. Plus, why is one fleet heading back to Dorne to pick up Dornish troops? Considering how Varys, Lady Olenna, and the Sand Snakes are at Dragonstone, that means Dany's fleet already landed at Sunspear to pick them up before heading to Dragonstone.

Also, how was it that Euron's fleet was able to intercept Yara and the Sandsnakes, yet completely miss Greyworm and Unsullied, since both fleets are leaving from the same place, passing Blackwater Bay, and heading in the same general direction?

Geography and the distance between locations has never been much of a concern for D&D.

 

[Marvolo]

Plus, I believe the Dornish used one to kill Meraxes way back.

Thats probably where Qyburn got the idea from.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Thats probably where Qyburn got the idea from.

Had he mentioned and used it as an example of dragon mortality, that would have been gravy.

 

[Iceman]

Geography and the distance between locations has never been much of a concern for D&D.

Fantasy books are usually good on that. It's kind of the point of putting maps in so you can picture the journeys/movements of all the characters (and armies during wars). Bit of a shame that the show will disregard it and it makes theorising a bit open-ended and difficult as someone being on the other side of the map at a specified time doesn't rule anything out.

 

[Victarion]

[YT]mxBd05c0STo[/YT]
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[Warhammer]

[YT]mxBd05c0STo[/YT]
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[Iceman]

Beast maniac!

 

[Loki882]

​

"I just crapped my pants, fear me!!!!"

 

[Roose Bolton]

It's so funny reading people's 'theories' ... knowing fully well they read the spoilers

Yeah...."theories"

 

[Marvolo]

I'm sure some here didn't read the spoilers. I read some of them but there are details and scenes that Im still in the dark about, and I haven't read the spoilers in a while so not all of its fresh on my mind.

Spoiler

The Parlay scene for example. I know that Jon says he will go beyond the Wall for proof. But I don't know what else happens in that scene. I don't even know if the dragons are in that scene. I also don't know whether the dragons are injured before the season finale.

On another note, I think Theon did the smart thing. Yara should have told him to jump overboard. She's supposed to be a warrior. She should know she is ****ed. She should know Theon is not going to be able to save her. She should know Theon might be able to survive and report back to Dany if he jumps over board. So a pragmatic no BS person in her position would have told Theon to get away and get back to Dany.

It just sucks that the show plays it like he shouldn't have run and he is a coward for doing it and Yara was disappointed that he did it.

 

[righthooksrus86]

I'm sure some here didn't read the spoilers. I read some of them but there are details and scenes that Im still in the dark about, and I haven't read the spoilers in a while so not all of its fresh on my mind.

Spoiler

The Parlay scene for example. I know that Jon says he will go beyond the Wall for proof. But I don't know what else happens in that scene. I don't even know if the dragons are in that scene. I also don't know whether the dragons are injured before the season finale.

On another note, I think Theon did the smart thing. Yara should have told him to jump overboard. She's supposed to be a warrior. She should know she is ****ed. She should know Theon is not going to be able to save her. She should know Theon might be able to survive and report back to Dany if he jumps over board. So a pragmatic no BS person in her position would have told Theon to get away and get back to Dany.

It just sucks that the show plays it like he shouldn't have run and he is a coward for doing it and Yara was disappointed that he did it.

Yea I didn't like that, even I was just thinking "damnit Reek!" but in hindsight what was Theon supposed to do?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Yara was supposed to be far more competent than Theon as a warrior and a reaver and not even she could defeat Euron. Theon, whose body has been mutilated and had been doubtless emaciated to a degree from his years of torture, probably wouldn't do much better. And that's disregarding the various crewmen of the Silence who proved themselves to be just as savage and skilled as their captain. Theon was gonna die, so unless Yara wanted him to get them both killed she shouldn't hold it against him.

 

[Reek]

he sat there and watched people getting their tongues cut out... **** i'd dip out too... Yara barely tried to save Theon in the first place and was a **** to him when he came home knowing the **** he had been through.

 

[righthooksrus86]

Yara was supposed to be far more competent than Theon as a warrior and a reaver and not even she could defeat Euron. Theon, whose body has been mutilated and had been doubtless emaciated to a degree from his years of torture, probably wouldn't do much better. And that's disregarding the various crewmen of the Silence who proved themselves to be just as savage and skilled as their captain. Theon was gonna die, so unless Yara wanted him to get them both killed she shouldn't hold it against him.

I hated seeing Yara with that disappointed look on her face. She should know they both were screwed either way.

 

[Iceman]

Yara was supposed to be far more competent than Theon as a warrior and a reaver and not even she could defeat Euron. Theon, whose body has been mutilated and had been doubtless emaciated to a degree from his years of torture, probably wouldn't do much better. And that's disregarding the various crewmen of the Silence who proved themselves to be just as savage and skilled as their captain. Theon was gonna die, so unless Yara wanted him to get them both killed she shouldn't hold it against him.

Yeah. I just wanted Yara to give a better account of herself before she lost.

 

[squeekness]

Yeah. I just wanted Yara to give a better account of herself before she lost.

Considering she was supposedly one of the better reavers and fighting so hard to be queen, yeah. It was a little anti-climatic.

 

[TheFuture]

Yara was supposed to be far more competent than Theon as a warrior and a reaver and not even she could defeat Euron. Theon, whose body has been mutilated and had been doubtless emaciated to a degree from his years of torture, probably wouldn't do much better. And that's disregarding the various crewmen of the Silence who proved themselves to be just as savage and skilled as their captain. Theon was gonna die, so unless Yara wanted him to get them both killed she shouldn't hold it against him.

I don't think the scene played it like that though as Theon was still portrayed as competent and smart in combat. Mentally broken yeah but physically...I'm not so sure.

he sat there and watched people getting their tongues cut out... **** i'd dip out too... Yara barely tried to save Theon in the first place and was a **** to him when he came home knowing the **** he had been through.

Yeah Yara could never really comprehend what Theon had been through. When it comes down to it she was as thick as the rest of the Iron Born.

 

[Elayis]

Better than last weeks, but this show has become so paint by numbers. A high schooler could write better than Those exchanges between Dany and Tyrion/Varys/Melisandre (with Missandei butting in) were painfully inept. Not sure what happened with Emilia Clarke’s acting ability, but she seems to be of the mistaken opinion that having one facial expression translates as power and authority.

The so-called cure for greyscale seemed rather mundane and simple for a previously incurable disease. The forced friction between Jon and Sansa is still irritating, but luckily that looks to be at an end (for now) with Jon off for Dragonstone (hopefully he won’t miss Arya, but that could go either way). Cersei might have a scorpion now, but that doesn’t mean it’ll be useful against a fast moving, flying target (much less three of them).

And too little too late, but at least most of the Sand Snakes are gone now. I don’t think Theon’s return to Reek was handled at all well, though. Not sure what they have planned for him, his cowardly behavior being at odds with his actions since the finale episode of season 5. If the showrunners were attempting to portray this as an attempt to save Yara’s life they did a poor job of it.

But most importantly they need to stop the storytelling device of having one character look powerful by having their opponent suddenly become mindnumpingly stupid. The surprise stealth attack by a 1000 ship fleet in the middle of the night was just the latest example of this.

This all just feels so rote and predictable, which used to be anathema to the show’s MO. A Song of Ice and Fire was supposed to be the antithesis to the usual fantasy epics. D&D seem to be content resting on their laurels. There hasn’t been a new or interesting development in the show for years.

And I still hate the anachronistically modern (an predominantly black) clothing that number of characters have worn since last season (even some architecture, too, like the new Dragonstone sets). I know this is a fantasy world, but it looks so out of place given the years worth of established design. It just adds to the “no ****s given” feel the last few seasons have had. They’re not even pretending to stay faithful to the source material.

That said, as boring as the episode was (and grading on a curve) it was almost passable. I’d give this one a 6/10 (up from the 3/10 of last week’s). Hopefully the show will either maintain this quality or be so packed full with “epic” moments that it’ll go by quickly if not painlessly.