Season 7, Episode 2 "Stormborn" Discussion Thread

[Kane52630]

 

[TheFuture]

Ah Theon, the poor coward.

In any other show Theon would be the one to off Euron by slicing him in half from the balls up.

That being said, I still think there's a chance he will. I noticed during the sequence that they portrayed Theon as arguably the most skilled at combat while Yara and the Snakes had multiple near misses. While they grunted and oozed passion in battle to a fault, Theon seemed cool, in control and above all else effortless in what he was doing.

That's what made his cowardice particularly sad; if he hadn't been utterly mentally broken he could have taken Euron.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

People say he should have tried, but trying to go out in a blaze of glory is how his troubles really began.

 

[righthooksrus86]

As alwayse a good episode. I was a bit uncomfortable with the transition between Sam and Mormont surgery and the the inn scene, it was a bit disgusting.
I hope hot sandnake doesn't die too soon she is damn pretty.
The sea assault was great and almost on par with a season final.
I never liked Sensa and even more so this episode. She will littefinger Jon I bet.

Lol that transition was disgusting, those cheeky bastards.

 

[godisawesome]

Ah Theon, the poor coward.

In any other show Theon would be the one to off Euron by slicing him in half from the balls up.

That being said, I still think there's a chance he will. I noticed during the sequence that they portrayed Theon as arguably the most skilled at combat while Yara and the Snakes had multiple near misses. While they grunted and oozed passion in battle to a fault, Theon seemed cool, in control and above all else effortless in what he was doing.

That's what made his cowardice particularly sad; if he hadn't been utterly mentally broken he could have taken Euron.

Say what you want about Ned Stark, but if he raised you to be a fighter, he did not fail.

I still think his initial hesitation wasn't so much being triggered as much as immediately recognizing an incredibly disadvantageous tactical situation; Euron's got armor (in one of the few fights in the series choreographed to actually show that as a huge advantage), the winning boarding party, and a hostage.

The hesitation makes sense there strictly from a wisdom standpoint and fits the more realistic nature of the series: if Theon had charged Euron at that moment, he should die. I mean, when Jon went ballistic during the Batte of the Bastards, he was wearing armor and fighting alongside his own men more than one of whom saved him. Theon's not got those equalizers. Especially the armor one, considering that's the game change in Trant vs Syrio, Jorah vs the Blood-rider, and Euron vs the Sand Snakes.

His breakdown into Reek-like trauma is meant to be a sign of weakness, but honestly, if they wanted his trauma to be the only reason he left, they placed it too late after Euron's punched his Hero Kiler card and the battles been won by his forces. They can take it in whatever direction they want; he can either be portrayed as totally ashamed and shell shocked, or torn between what he should have done according to Northern and Iron Born mores and what he should have done according to pragmatic wisdom.

 

[TheFuture]

I still think his initial hesitation wasn't so much being triggered as much as immediately recognizing an incredibly disadvantageous tactical situation; Euron's got armor (in one of the few fights in the series choreographed to actually show that as a huge advantage), the winning boarding party, and a hostage.

The hesitation makes sense there strictly from a wisdom standpoint and fits the more realistic nature of the series: if Theon had charged Euron at that moment, he should die. I mean, when Jon went ballistic during the Batte of the Bastards, he was wearing armor and fighting alongside his own men more than one of whom saved him. Theon's not got those equalizers. Especially the armor one, considering that's the game change in Trant vs Syrio, Jorah vs the Blood-rider, and Euron vs the Sand Snakes.

His breakdown into Reek-like trauma is meant to be a sign of weakness, but honestly, if they wanted his trauma to be the only reason he left, they placed it too late after Euron's punched his Hero Kiler card and the battles been won by his forces. They can take it in whatever direction they want; he can either be portrayed as totally ashamed and shell shocked, or torn between what he should have done according to Northern and Iron Born mores and what he should have done according to pragmatic wisdom.

Maybe there was more to Theon's desertion than Ramsay induced trauma but I'd be surprised if there was anything tactical in it. He just bottled it (again I don't blame him).

Another thing that made it work for me is that it played into the relationship Yara and Theon had last season. For all the pep talks, a chasm still remained; Yara knew who she was and reveled in it, while Theon never did and had the additional trauma of paying for that struggle within himself badly.

In that moment he probably realised Yara wasn't the person to give his life for so I guess it was tactical from that point of view. It's interesting to note he was willing to give it for Sansa's life last season.

 

[Rowsdower!]

LOL

I'm not sure that's exactly what Syrio had in mind when he said that line.

 

[TheFuture]

Forgot to say I thought Qyburn's big reveal was absolutely farcical. Am I meant to believe no one in the history of westertos came up with that hair brained idea?

Also impaling an age old skeletal skull does not = impaling a fully borne flesh and blood Dragon. I'd be genuinely pissed off if that takes out one of the dragons purely due to the absurdity of it.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, that was pretty dumb.

 

[TheFuture]

Yeah, that was pretty dumb.

I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. Anything to stack the odds in favour of the walkers in the final battle no matter how poor the execution.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, it would be really disappointing. But they do seem to be going that route. I was honestly a disappointed in the scene they referenced when the dragon showed up in Mereen and got speared a dozen times. I was like, "Aren't dragon scales supposed to be damn near impenetrable?"

 

[righthooksrus86]

Forgot to say I thought Qyburn's big reveal was absolutely farcical. Am I meant to believe no one in the history of westertos came up with that hair brained idea?

Also impaling an age old skeletal skull does not = impaling a fully borne flesh and blood Dragon. I'd be genuinely pissed off if that takes out one of the dragons purely due to the absurdity of it.

It wouldve been more impressive if the whole skull exploded lol...all it did was poke a hole in the skull.

 

[Marvolo]

I hope they try it

Spoiler

when Dany goes to parlay with Cersei. Imagine that. Drogon lands and they shoot him in the face and it just bounces off. Then he proceeds to eat the Queensguard.

 

[Iceman]

That they're making these devices suggests to me that at least one will fire a bolt that hits and at least wounds one of the dragons. I hope it's not Drogon. Is there supposed to be a noticeable size difference between the other 2? If so I hope the smaller one picks up an injury that is then somehow exploited later. If all 3 make it to the end without any significant injury it will undermine that feeling that the Night King's army is an almost unbeatable threat and it will actually be the Night King's army who look vulnerable.

 

[Marvolo]

That they're making these devices suggests to me that at least one will fire a bolt that hits and at least wounds one of the dragons. I hope it's not Drogon. Is there supposed to be a noticeable size difference between the other 2? If so I hope the smaller one picks up an injury that is then somehow exploited later. If all 3 make it to the end without any significant injury it will undermine that feeling that the Night King's army is an almost unbeatable threat and it will actually be the Night King's army who look vulnerable.

Major season finale spoilers:

Spoiler

Supposedly, the Nights King kills one of Dany's dragons in the finale. Maybe he is able to kill it because Cersei or the Lannister army wounds it earlier in the season with one of these giant crossbows.

 

[Iceman]

Major season finale spoilers:

Spoiler

Supposedly, the Nights King kills one of Dany's dragons in the finale. Maybe he is able to kill it because Cersei wounds it earlier in the season.

Spoiler

Thanks for that! I think it needs to happen exactly that way. A dragon needs to be beaten and not by any one event (to show how hardy they are). It's also best if it finally dies at the hands of the Night King.

 

[Warhorse]

That they're making these devices suggests to me that at least one will fire a bolt that hits and at least wounds one of the dragons. I hope it's not Drogon. Is there supposed to be a noticeable size difference between the other 2? If so I hope the smaller one picks up an injury that is then somehow exploited later. If all 3 make it to the end without any significant injury it will undermine that feeling that the Night King's army is an almost unbeatable threat and it will actually be the Night King's army who look vulnerable.

I actually think Drogon will get killed, and then when the White Walkers start to invade the lands, they will take Drogon and turn him into that ice dragon we seen in the posters.

 

[Marvolo]

Killing Drogon is something GRRM would definitely do. But prpbably not D&D. Think about it. He is the star dragon, and of the three dragons, Drogon's digital model is the star vfx model. It has the most nuanced detail and work done on it because Drogon is the one thats given the most closeups and prolonged shots. I dont think they will want to throw all that hard vfx work out by killing him. Even if they intend to bring him back as a wight dragon. It would require a reworking of the vfx model. So I figure they will kill one of the lesser dragons that theyve spent less time and money on.

Thats my hope, at least.

 

[Iceman]

I actually think Drogon will get killed, and then when the White Walkers start to invade the lands, they will take Drogon and turn him into that ice dragon we seen in the posters.

Ice dragon?!! I haven't seen this poster. That would be a crazy asset for the Night King! Would be cool if we got that, an ice-breathing dragon that freezes people.

 

[Marvolo]

A wight dragon would probably breathe blue fire. Technically blue flames are hotter than orange flames, but visually it would be cool coming from an ice and snow encrusted undead dragon with bright blue eyes.

 

[Reek]

It's so funny reading people's 'theories' ... knowing fully well they read the spoilers

 

[Perfect Cell]

...I just want to see this ice dragon poster.

 

[Iceman]

Now I'm going to be pissed if they don't do that!

 

[Warhorse]

Ice dragon?!! I haven't seen this poster. That would be a crazy asset for the Night King! Would be cool if we got that, an ice-breathing dragon that freezes people.

 

[Perfect Cell]

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