Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

[KRYPTON INC.]

Cersei is a sociopath. While I think she had affection for her offspring on a purley instinctual level she really only carred about them inasmuch as they were extensions of herself. She didn't care about them as individuals in and of themselves. If she truly cared Joffery would not have been raised to be an entitled ****. If she really cared she wouldn't have continually tried to manipulate Tommen out of fear of waning court influence. Even Macella personal safety mattered little to her. Tyrion wanted the girl awasy from the immediate danger at KL. All Cersei could imagine was there was some plot afoot against her.

 

[Warhorse]

Remember back when Ser Barristan told Dany that the Mad King lost his humanity slowly by tasting the power he had by punishing people?

I think Danny is heading down a dangerous path. She is doing what she thinks is right, but it's taking away her humanity. In the books you see even more of her struggle with the madness that took her father.

I feel the same thing is happening to Arya. She's back at Winterfell, and seems to be void of most human emotions.

 

[RoastBeast]

I feel the same thing is happening to Arya. She's back at Winterfell, and seems to be void of most human emotions.

It might be time will change that- I've thought it interesting that she just openly states "oh, I'm going to kill her" and "I've got a list, that..." and seems surprised when people a) laugh it off or b) are shocked and appalled. It's like she is having to relearn social cues again to function in her new location.

 

[flickchick85]

Honestly, I love Arya far more than Daenerys, but she's easily displaying more sociopathic tendencies than Dany this point. And KRYPTON's right that Cersei is just a straight-up sociopath.

Dany, for all her ruthlessness and cruelty she's proven capable of, still obviously cares about other people. And not just her "children."

 

[Legendver2]

Honestly, I love Arya far more than Daenerys, but she's easily displaying more sociopathic tendencies than Dany this point. And KRYPTON's right that Cersei is just a straight-up sociopath.

Dany, for all her ruthlessness and cruelty she's proven capable of, still obviously cares about other people. And not just her "children."

Well we know she cares a big deal for Jon

 

[Iceman]

It might be time will change that- I've thought it interesting that she just openly states "oh, I'm going to kill her" and "I've got a list, that..." and seems surprised when people a) laugh it off or b) are shocked and appalled. It's like she is having to relearn social cues again to function in her new location.

Yeah, as if she stopped growing emotionally from the time Ned died, since when she has for the most part only enhanced her killing and ninja skills. I guess Hot Pie was a nice temporary break from that.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Cersei is an incredibly terrible mother who never cared about the psychological damage she inflicted on her children (letting Joffrey do whatever he pleased while growing up turning him into a huge pile of ****, letting Joff terrorise Tommen, blowing up the sept which led to Tommen's suicide, etc).

 

[Havok83]

Cersei is a sociopath. While I think she had affection for her offspring on a purley instinctual level she really only carred about them inasmuch as they were extensions of herself. She didn't care about them as individuals in and of themselves. If she truly cared Joffery would not have been raised to be an entitled ****. If she really cared she wouldn't have continually tried to manipulate Tommen out of fear of waning court influence. Even Macella personal safety mattered little to her. Tyrion wanted the girl awasy from the immediate danger at KL. All Cersei could imagine was there was some plot afoot against her.

I do think Cersei loved all her kids. They were her only redeeming quality. She wasnt a good mother; no one will deny that, but just bc she was a bad parent doesnt mean she didnt truly care for her children. Part of the reason why she was a bad mother was bc she never had one. She never had that experience and affection from a mother to guide her while growing up. It shamed who she became and she overcompensated, especially with Joffrey by giving him free reign to do as he wanted bc it pleased him.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah, as if she stopped growing emotionally from the time Ned died, since when she has for the most part only enhanced her killing and ninja skills. I guess Hot Pie was a nice temporary break from that.

I'd say the Red Wedding is what broke her. Then the Faceless Men put the pieces back into a violent and cruel thing. I do not think Arya is a sociopath. But she has a very damaged psyche and might even be psychotic. But she just needs some dire wolf therapy.

 

[Warhorse]

Honestly, I love Arya far more than Daenerys, but she's easily displaying more sociopathic tendencies than Dany this point. And KRYPTON's right that Cersei is just a straight-up sociopath.

Dany, for all her ruthlessness and cruelty she's proven capable of, still obviously cares about other people. And not just her "children."

I'm not sure about that. When poisoning the Freys, she only poisoned those responsible for the red wedding. She would not let the maidens or the poor young wife suffer the same fate (which makes her more compassionate than her own mother, who had no problem killing an innocent girl)

So far, all the kills she's had or involved with are from those that either personally threatened to kill her and she had to kill them in defense, or they were directly involved with the slaying of her family/friends. Heck, even Eddard Stark beheaded a man that was of no threat to him or his family, but because he was running for his life, and Eddard refused to listen because some oath was more important to him. Sometimes I wonder, if Eddard had refused to kill the man and let him explain what he saw, Westoros could have been prepared for this White Walker army years ago.

 

[Havok83]

I'm not sure about that. When poisoning the Freys, she only poisoned those responsible for the red wedding. She would not let the maidens or the poor young wife suffer the same fate (which makes her more compassionate than her own mother, who had no problem killing an innocent girl)

So far, all the kills she's had or involved with are from those that either personally threatened to kill her and she had to kill them in defense, or they were directly involved with the slaying of her family/friends. Heck, even Eddard Stark beheaded a man that was of no threat to him or his family, but because he was running for his life, and Eddard refused to listen because some oath was more important to him. Sometimes I wonder, if Eddard had refused to kill the man and let him explain what he saw, Westoros could have been prepared for this White Walker army years ago.

that doesnt make her not a sociopath. The little bit of conscience she has separates her from being a psychopath which a more extreme form of a sociopath with no conscience. What she does is flat out murder. On can rationalize why she is justified in it (which she isnt), but it doesnt change the fact that she lives to kill and gets pleasure out of it. Its become core to her identity now

 

[Warhorse]

that doesnt make her not a sociopath. The little bit of conscience she has separates her from being a psychopath which a more extreme form of a sociopath with no conscience. What she does is flat out murder. On can rationalize why she is justified in it (which she isnt), but it doesnt change the fact that she lives to kill and gets pleasure out of it. Its become core to her identity now

How is she a murderer than, and not anyone else? Ned beheaded a man because he broke an oath. What makes him so much more nobler than Arya? And Dany clearly enjoys killing as well, so to excuse her and not Arya, sorry, just no. Arya is better though, because she is just killing those that personally killed her family and friends. They live in a world of eye for an eye. It's not murder back in those times.

 

[Havok83]

How is she a murderer than, and not anyone else? Ned beheaded a man because he broke an oath. What makes him so much more nobler than Arya? And Dany clearly enjoys killing as well, so to excuse her and not Arya, sorry, just no. Arya is better though, because she is just killing those that personally killed her family and friends. They live in a world of eye for an eye. It's not murder back in those times.

Did I say other characters werent murderers or excuse anyone?

 

[Kane52630]

 

[javonstokess]

Let's be honest. Arya is a sociopath. When you walk around with a list of people you are intending to kill AND THEN FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT you're a sociopath. Actually she's closer to being a functional psychotic.

 

[Iceman]

I'd say the Red Wedding is what broke her. Then the Faceless Men put the pieces back into a violent and cruel thing. I do not think Arya is a sociopath. But she has a very damaged psyche and might even be psychotic. But she just needs some dire wolf therapy.

That might have been the event that really broke her, yes. She would probably need some kind of therapy to be able to live in a normal society again where war, deaths and murder attempts weren't everyday occurrences.