Senate Kills Minimum Wage Bill

[lazur]

The only kind of ex-cons I do have sympathy for are the ones who didn't commit the crime, but still served time for it.

I think it was about last year, a 55 year old man was released after serving 25 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. The crime? Raping and killing a 12 year old girl. DNA evidence proved that he wasn't the rapist/killer.

In those cases, I believe the person is awarded a significant amount of "back pay" from the state for the years of productivity in society he missed. I've heard of such cases where the ex prisoner (the term "ex con" isn't appropriate since a crime wasn't committed) came away with millions, more than he ever would have made had he never been imprisoned.

 

[kainedamo]

Sure, in a perfect world, employers could pay their employees enough and it wouldn't break the economy and send the unemployment rate through the roof. But this isn't a perfect world.

Right now, the unemployment rate is about 4.5%, which is pretty low. However, if the dems go ahead and manage to raise the minimum wage, you will see that rise signficantly, and they're not even wanting to raise it that much. (I wonder if everyone will blame Bush for that?)

And for some reason, I can't really find any sympathy for the plight of ex cons. I guess, if they were all that concerned about "making it" financially and being accepted by society, they should have never committed a crime in the first place?

What is it with people that disagree with raising the minimum wage and their black and whtie arguments?

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

And they arent deserving of what they make?

No because THERE IS A LEGAL PROCESS which they didn't go through. I have no problem with immigrants working here as long as they do it legally. Everytime an illegal immigrant comes over here it just messes up the system even more. And it also factors into the overpopulation problem. I just want the government to have knowledge of the immigrants in this country so everything can be appropriately handled such as taxes, wages, etc. Like Dennis Miller said it is fine to immigrate over just sign the ****ing guestbook on the way in.

 

[lazur]

What is it with people that disagree with raising the minimum wage and their black and whtie arguments?

It's not a black and white argument. It's a simple matter of economics. You can't force companies to pay their employees more without there being a direct impact on unemployment rates. How is that "black and white"?

In a perfect world, yes everyone should make plenty of money and live happily ever after. But in THIS world, it doesn't work that way.

 

[sinewave]

i'd like to see some incentives given to companies that raise their minimum wage without reducing their employment rates. as the economy goes up the minimum wage is worth less and less. 10 years is too long to go without raising it. if we have to have a minimum wage it shouldn't be stuck at the same rate for a decade. that's just wrong.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

It's not a black and white argument. It's a simple matter of economics. You can't force companies to pay their employees more without there being a direct impact on unemployment rates. How is that "black and white"?

In a perfect world, yes everyone should make plenty of money and live happily ever after. But in THIS world, it doesn't work that way.

Nobody is asking for a perfect world just a better one because right now it most definitely can be better. It is all about priorities and Bush and Co. are just focusing on the wrong ones. Minimum wage workers don't even get any health benefits which is ridiculous. There are plenty of ways to improve the living of most Americans. Most of these comedians out there actually make more sense than alot of politicians. Just watch the Bill Maher show he is just makes so many statements that make too much sense.

 

[lazur]

Nobody is asking for a perfect world just a better one because right now it most definitely can be better. It is all about priorities and Bush and Co. are just focusing on the wrong ones. Minimum wage workers don't even get any health benefits which is ridiculous. There are plenty of ways to improve the living of most Americans. Most of these comedians out there actually make more sense than alot of politicians. Just watch the Bill Maher show he is just makes so many statements that make too much sense.

I don't think you can blame this just on "Bush and co." - minimum wage and poor working conditions have been around for far longer than this administration.

But you're right in the sense that we should continue to work to improve the work environment for everyone. However, when you start dictating to companies that they must provide this and that and the other thing, that's when you see a decline in the employment rate. You can't force a company to provide all of these "entitlements" to employees while expecting them to also maintain the same workforce level.

I do like the idea of offering incentives to companies who do offer more benefits/higher pay while not compromising the number of employees in their workforce, but that's a difficult thing to do. I mean, if you cut taxes as an incentive, many on the left start complaining that you're giving the big corporations too many breaks, right? But what other incentives can Uncle Sam offer to an entity whose only purpose IS to make money?

It's a delicate balance that we as a nation have never been too, too good at realizing.

On the other side of the coin, though, there *has* to be an expectation that people will *earn* their keep and not just expect Uncle Sam or some corporation to hand everything to them on a silver platter.

 

[tomahawk53]

It's not a black and white argument. It's a simple matter of economics. You can't force companies to pay their employees more without there being a direct impact on unemployment rates. How is that "black and white"?

In a perfect world, yes everyone should make plenty of money and live happily ever after. But in THIS world, it doesn't work that way.

I don't understand why this is so hard to understand? I'm sure you're red in the face with explaining it too. LOL.

Folks it's simple. You force business to pay more to it's employees where are they going to recoup that money from? They are either going to charge YOU more for their goods or services....OR they are going to have to lay some people off.

I agree with Sinewave in that I wish there was some sort of incentives given to companies that raise their minimum wage without reducing their employment rates. But there's not...at least not to my knowledge.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

I don't think you can blame this just on "Bush and co." - minimum wage and poor working conditions have been around for far longer than this administration.

But you're right in the sense that we should continue to work to improve the work environment for everyone. However, when you start dictating to companies that they must provide this and that and the other thing, that's when you see a decline in the employment rate. You can't force a company to provide all of these "entitlements" to employees while expecting them to also maintain the same workforce level.

I do like the idea of offering incentives to companies who do offer more benefits/higher pay while not compromising the number of employees in their workforce, but that's a difficult thing to do. I mean, if you cut taxes as an incentive, many on the left start complaining that you're giving the big corporations too many breaks, right? But what other incentives can Uncle Sam offer to an entity whose only purpose IS to make money?

It's a delicate balance that we as a nation have never been too, too good at realizing.

On the other side of the coin, though, there *has* to be an expectation that people will *earn* their keep and not just expect Uncle Sam or some corporation to hand everything to them on a silver platter.

Well I guess I worded that wrong I wasn't blaming the Bush administration for CAUSING it but Bush certainly has done a lot of things to puts our country in a tougher position. The war being the main thing and the one great thing that I thought would come from the war, lower gas prices, hasn't even happened. Bush is putting money, time, and effort into helping another country when we have too many problems of our own it is just ridiculous. Get Bush the **** out of there and get a president in there that will pull us out of that mess of a war so we can focus our time, money, and effort on bettering our economy.

And just for the record I am with on not forcing the companies to cough up more but I am extremely for finding ways, no matter how difficult and time consuming, to make wages and benefits for ALL workers. My main viewpoint is that under this administration the priorities are just all screwed up and we need to get them straightened out.

 

[lazur]

Well I guess I worded that wrong I wasn't blaming the Bush administration for CAUSING it but Bush certainly has done a lot of things to puts our country in a tougher position. The war being the main thing and the one great thing that I thought would come from the war, lower gas prices, hasn't even happened. Bush is putting money, time, and effort into helping another country when we have too many problems of our own it is just ridiculous. Get Bush the **** out of there and get a president in there that will pull us out of that mess of a war so we can focus our time, money, and effort on bettering our economy.

Umm, most economists agree that the economy is doing fine. Sure, gas prices are up, but they're up all over the world, not just in the U.S.

And just for the record I am with on not forcing the companies to cough up more but I am extremely for finding ways, no matter how difficult and time consuming, to make wages and benefits for ALL workers. My main viewpoint is that under this administration the priorities are just all screwed up and we need to get them straightened out.

All administrations have their priorities screwed up to half of the population. As I said, I agree that we should try to do more for employees, but there has to be some give and take. No one should get a free ride or be automatically successful at whatever they do.

 

[Tally Man]

Classic politics. Add something on a bill that the other side supports/wants in order to get it passed and when the bill fails blast the other side saying they killed a measure they supported. Nice move by the repubs except they had already dug themselves too deep a hole for this to help them.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Umm, most economists agree that the economy is doing fine. Sure, gas prices are up, but they're up all over the world, not just in the U.S.



All administrations have their priorities screwed up to half of the population. As I said, I agree that we should try to do more for employees, but there has to be some give and take. No one should get a free ride or be automatically successful at whatever they do.

Really??? Haha. http://www.academycomputerservice.com/economics/charts.htm

For the past year over 50% of American registered voters have disapproved of Bush's handling of the economy. http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/ So according to that most seemed opposed to it.

 

[Kritish]

I challange anyone that opposes the minimum wage raise to spend a month on it before they say "those people don't deserve a raise".

 

[comicgirl]

I challange anyone that opposes the minimum wage raise to spend a month on it before they say "those people don't deserve a raise".

go to www.ricksantorum.com and throw that down. Of course, he just got voted out of office

Lousy bastards, they don't know what's its like to HAVE to work

 

[Kritish]

Minimum wage should be 25,000 a year.

 

[Addendum]

I challange anyone that opposes the minimum wage raise to spend a month on it before they say "those people don't deserve a raise".

I don't think it's the government's responsibility to give a worker a raise.

It's the responsibility of only two people-

1) The worker that does work which merits a raise
2) The boss that acknowledges said work and gives that worker a raise.

 

[lazur]

Minimum wage should be 25,000 a year.

You're late to the discussion. Minimum wage should be whatever it needs to be to ensure that the unemployment rate doesn't go through the roof. The higher the minimum wage, the more people who are out of work because companies cannot afford to pay them all.

Try reading the last few pages.

 

[kainedamo]

But what about the cost of living? That continues to go up and up.

 

[Orko Is King]

Hooray from commuting a 1/2 hour just to make $7 an hour!

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

You're late to the discussion. Minimum wage should be whatever it needs to be to ensure that the unemployment rate doesn't go through the roof. The higher the minimum wage, the more people who are out of work because companies cannot afford to pay them all.

Try reading the last few pages.

So you have no response to those links I gave?

 

[lazur]

So you have no response to those links I gave?

I'm not going to argue with you about the economy. Most analysts and economists are positive about the economy. But you, being against the current administration, will look for anything that may be to the contrary. If you want a good indication of how the economy is doing, look at the unemployment rate and how well the stock market is doing. Not surprisingly, both of those areas are doing just fine under Bush.

But hey, you're entitled to your own opinion, even if it's not all that accurate, so believe what you want.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

I'm not going to argue with you about the economy. Most analysts and economists are positive about the economy. But you, being against the current administration, will look for anything that may be to the contrary. If you want a good indication of how the economy is doing, look at the unemployment rate and how well the stock market is doing. Not surprisingly, both of those areas are doing just fine under Bush.

But hey, you're entitled to your own opinion, even if it's not all that accurate, so believe what you want.

And I could say that most are saying he is doing a horrible job. I think under any administration your always going to find reports and articles saying or spinning the information into or against someones favor. So you trying to say in a way that I am completely wrong is yur own opinion because I have seen plenty of reports, articles, statistics, and tons of other peoples opinions saying Bush is doing a bad job. I know there are alot of people that like what Bush is doing but from my own experience and things I know and read even more hate what he is doing.


But hey, you're entitled to your own opinion, even if it's not all that accurate, so believe what you want.

 

[lazur]

And I could say that most are saying he is doing a horrible job. I think under any administration your always going to find reports and articles saying or spinning the information into or against someones favor. So you trying to say in a way that I am completely wrong is yur own opinion because I have seen plenty of reports, articles, statistics, and tons of other peoples opinions saying Bush is doing a bad job. I know there are alot of people that like what Bush is doing but from my own experience and things I know and read even more hate what he is doing.


But hey, you're entitled to your own opinion, even if it's not all that accurate, so believe what you want.

Dude, you can't fake a low unemployment rate. You can't fake a high DOW Jones industrial score, which just recently broke a new record (http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/03/markets/markets_0130/).

You're also comparing Bush to Clinton, when Clinton didn't have 9/11 to deal with (or the "war on terror" that followed).

And sorry, I don't look at gas prices as the sole measurement for how the economy is doing.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

Dude, you can't fake a low unemployment rate. You can't fake a high DOW Jones industrial score, which just recently broke a new record.

You're also comparing Bush to Clinton, when Clinton didn't have 9/11 to deal with (or the "war on terror" that followed).

And sorry, I don't look at gas prices as the sole measurement for how the economy is doing.

Yeah whatever you say. All of these statistics with the majority complaining about Bush are wrong your right. Bush is a genius. And I liked how he tried to spin Kerry's statement on the troops to detour away from the actual subject of how badly the war is going. We could go on and on but it all comes down to our own personal views which aren't going to change. I hate the Bush administration and it is rare that I find anything they do that I totally agree with. And going by the voting that just happened I am so glad that it is likely we are going to be getting a president whos views differe majorly from Bush's.

 

[lazur]

Yeah whatever you say. All of these statistics with the majority complaining about Bush are wrong your right. Bush is a genius. And I liked how he tried to spin Kerry's statement on the troops to detour away from the actual subject of how badly the war is going. We could go on and on but it all comes down to our own personal views which aren't going to change. I hate the Bush administration and it is rare that I find anything they do that I totally agree with. And going by the voting that just happened I am so glad that it is likely we are going to be getting a president whos views differe majorly from Bush's.

First, read up on what an Economy is and how to measure it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy

Next, read this CNN article about how the DOW Jones hit a record high last month: http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/03/markets/markets_0130/

Next, read this CNN article on how the unemployment rate is at a 5 year low: http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/03/news/economy/jobs_october/index.htm

That's as straight forward as it gets. If you still believe the economy sucks, you're not able to see reason, and therefore debating with you is pointless.

(And take note that I'm giving you links to reputable sources - not obscure sites with a political agenda.)

Cheers.