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Seven Dead in Drive-By Shooting Near UC Santa Barbara

Considering his parents tried their best and nothing crazy-bad happened to him in terms if bullying, at some point it has to be "sorry you're becoming a danger to society" and let the police and law enforcement handle it.

There's some point where other people's right to safety trumps your right to privacy, and I dare say physical danger should be a non-controversy.
 
Yup, we can blame the police. There are seven police officers who showed up at his house, after he had uploaded the youtube videos, and he told them it was a misunderstanding, and they left. This was a few weeks ago.

All they had to do was search his room and find the guns and the written plans.
 
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Dude had a BMW and $$$$ going to the University of Casual Sex and Beer, should've been able to pull chicks easily just by showing up in his ride at the club. Instead this guy acts like he's stuck in the Sahara or sumthing thirsty as **** but doesn't even have the stones to talk to chicks just thinks they should go over to him cuz he's so interesting....
Doesn't even sound like was going to UCSB. One story I read said he was enrolled at the local community college. Guy was just a plain, all-around DB who had very limited awareness of the pettiness of his life's supposed problems.
 
As an aside, this guy was somewhat integrated in Hollywood.

Went to the red carpet premieres for the three star wars movies, return of the king, and the first hunger games.
Had a crush on Ashton Moio (http://thehungergames.wikia.com/wiki/Ashton_Moio) 's sister when she was 12
He exchanged some emails with Dale Launer, a successful screenwriter who was trying to get him to have a different attitude to women.

*************

Anyway, I think I've reached a satisfactory understanding of this. First of all, there was nothing wrong with most of the people in his life, please don't blame his mother, etc. He was somebody who had a hard time connecting with people (some asperger's possibly), and was also unwilling to put in hard work into anything other than buying lottery tickets. At one point he says he wants to work out for two weeks as a last chance for girls to be attracted to him, aside from that being misogynystic ... two weeks?

So these two things together (shyness plus lack of drive / unrealistic illusions about what it takes to succeed at anything) led to a spiral where he was more and more stuck in his own mind, which only leads to illusions perpetuating themselves, like memetic cancers. As he'd grow lonelier he grew more hateful. It's clear from his manifesto that a lot of people tried to help in that last year, but it was too late, except for the police who could have made a difference. I fear that some police staffer was too lazy to file a search warrant form.

Doesn't even sound like was going to UCSB. One story I read said he was enrolled at the local community college. Guy was just a plain, all-around DB who had very limited awareness of the pettiness of his life's supposed problems.
He tried at least two different community colleges, but never put in the work and took a bunch of unrelated classes, that he largely dropped and may have entirely dropped.
 
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I think this guy is the worst case scenario/final destination for the generation of spoilt, entitled, superficial rich kids.
 
He should have just hired an escort if he wanted a beautiful blonde. There's a ton of them in LA. The guy had a 1milo + apartment along with a nice BMW, yet it never occurred to him to hire someone to fulfill his "needs"? Zero sense of cognitive reasoning in this one which would explain what he did too.

Maybe deep down he was afraid having a sexual experience with a random escort girl and that in her eyes he would be ridiculed for not being "enough man" to satisfy her.
Some guys just prefer and find it easier to lose their virginity with that "special one" that have deep feelings for. I know cause I am speaking from a personal experience.

Yup, we can blame the police. There are seven police officers who showed up at his house, after he had uploaded the youtube videos, and he told them it was a misunderstanding, and they left. This was a few weeks ago.

All they had to do was search his room and find the guns and the written plans.

This is absurd. :doh:
Police is harassing and prosecuting innocent people all the time for no reason at all and they thought that this case didn't deserve any further investigation :huh:
Amazing.
 
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This is absurd. :doh:
Police is harassing and prosecuting innocent people all the time for no reason at all and they thought that this case didn't deserve any further investigation :huh:
Amazing.

His name should have already had a file associated with it, as he tried to injure some girls at a party a few months prior.
 
A summary of my thoughts, using my posts in the past three pages as notes.

**********************

This weekend, 22 year-old Elliot Rodger shot 7 people, and 3 bodies were found in his apartment, in Santa Barbara near the UCSB campus. This shooter was angry at the world and in particular at the fact he couldn't get hot blondes, so he sought to kill women and the men they date.

Rodger had a significant online presence, he posted several youtube videos detailing his plans a few weeks prior to the murder, and he posted on various forums like PUAhate.com. He wrote a 140 page manifesto, which I read this afternoon. I felt some anguish reading it as I recognised a lot of his life. As far as I know he never posted on hype, but he was a fan of science fiction so he could have posted here. He did post on bodybuilding.com, a website I used to frequent in the early 2000s. He was told to **** off. Some summary of his web presence can be found here:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmir...print-of-santa-barbara-shooter-elliot-rodger/

Out of morbid curiosity, I read his 140 page manifesto this afternoon. I wanted to see if I could extract answers. There's a series of problems and non-problems.

1) I would not blame his family, they did what they could. I can't fault his parents who seemed to have made significant efforts to improve his life. They arranged play-dates when he was small, they arranged for him to change schools when he was over-bullied, they made him go to summer camp, they took him out on vacations, they paid for him to see a psychiatrist (several shrinks actually), they even sent him to Morocco a few times so he'd experience something else. His step-mother forced him to go talk to some skateboarders when he was 8 or 9 or 10, and even though he ended up making friends with them he resented her for years and years afterwards. His childhood seemed mostly decent, he talked about play-dates, nintendo 64, pokemon, etc.

In fact I would not blame the people in his life based on what I read.

His school, he doesn't seem to mention the principals and teachers at all. He was bullied, but not at the extreme end of the scale by any means. A lot of people have been bullied.

There's these two guys, Philip and Addison, who kept meeting him even though he kept getting into fights with them. I was wondering if they kept meeting him out of a sense of obligation because they were afraid he was going to be suicidal / homicidal. This was confirmed later on in the diatribe when Addison says to him not do anything rash. People were trying to help.

Therapists and psychiatrists were also trying to help and meeting him in separate occasions and in separate places. They did call the police on him.

2) I definitely blame the police for what happened, they could have prevented this. First of all he had gotten into a fight at a party ~1 year prior to the shooting where he tried to injure some girls that he was angry at because they were not throwing themselves at him, other guys jumped in to protect the girls and he broke his leg. He should have had a file for that, at the very least. There were tons of witnesses. Subsequently, a few weeks prior to the shooting, police were informed of his problems and creepy youtube videos, and 7 officers showed up at his house. He writes in his manifesto that if they had seen his room they would have found the three guns and the notes on his kill. But they left the scene because "he didn't seem suspicious". If this guy had been black and worn a hoodie, he would have been caught for sure.

Heads should definitely roll over this. The police officers were either too lazy to file the paperwork for a search warrant or too racist to be suspicious of a white male. It's awful.

3) The culture of white male privilege, and the related sociology of rape culture, contributed to this crime. He was angry at the world because he couldn't get hot blondes. He wrote comments like this:

Elliot Rodger said:
You girls have never been attracted to me. I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me. But I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice. A crime. Because I don't know what you don't see in me. I'm the perfect guy. And yet you throw yourselves at all these obnoxious men, instead of me: the supreme gentleman. I will punish you all for it. ...

How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half-white myself. I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves. ...

The ultimate evil behind sexuality is the human female. They are the main instigators of sex. They control which men get it and which men don't. ...They think like beasts, and in truth, they are beasts...women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made by rational men of intelligence.

He assumed that he was entitled to hot blondes, and throughout his screed it seems to be the core of his resentment, that they never throw themselves at him. He assumed that he was entitled, and he was angry for being ignored. Note that he never talks about being rejected by a girl anywhere in his screed unless I missed it, I think he never bothered to ask a girl out, he certainly never wrote anything extended about trying to woo a girl. The only things he did as effort to get "hot blondes" were working out for two weeks just one time (two weeks !!!), moving to a party neighbourhood of Santa Barbara, and wearing expensive clothes. It's all passive and meek, as he clearly assumed that he should be given things including women. It wasn't just women -- he was passive and meek about everything else.

He never talks about his failures to connect to women as people, in fact he acknowledges never talking to them except for a therapist he met at age ~20, he only talks about his inability to get sex.

4) Two other components of that white male entitlement that manifested themselves are his total laziness / lack of ambition and his obsession with status and material goods.

I don't know to what extent his screed describes what he was over the 20 years, but it seems his only continuing interest is "pretty girls". He had no hobbies or interests that he stuck to, except maybe for world of warcraft and science fiction / fantasy, and most of what he took up (hackey sack, skateboarding, writing, etc) he quit in frustration within a year or less of picking it up. At one point he wanted to become a screenwriter, but he quit within a few weeks because he realised it would take decades to become successful, by which point he would be too old to attract hot blondes.

If he lacked "charm" with which to attract "hot blondes", it may have been because he never became interesting, which may have been because he never developed his own personality. He was more interested in fitting in than in being his own person even though he consistently wrote the opposite. There's a disturbing event that encapsulates all of this on page 100. He is attending college in what I think he wrote was a "last try" and his courses are math, sociology, english, film, I think. In his math class, he sees a pretty girl, he then looks her up on Facebook and sees that she is going out with a jock. So he drops his math class, and soon after, he drops all his classes. He writes that he doesn't want to torture himself seeing all those girls he could never have as nothing beneficial could come of it. He then writes that this was the day he crossed the threshold that made the day of retribution inevitable.

Though he actually "tried" a few more strategies afterwards. He thought that if he became a multi-millionaire he would be able to get pretty girls. He became obsessed with buying lottery tickets and spent many thousands of dollars on lottery tickets, he then says he feels the universe is against him because he was not the one who won.

On his obsession with material goods, several times when he wrote about luxury he would go on for pages and pages. At one point he delayed his shootings I think because his mother got first class plane tickets and he wanted to enjoy the rides. He talks a lot about all the buffets he got to eat, eating wine, et cetera. One time when boarding a first class flight he smirked at the economy passengers who had to wait in line.

5) OT: this guy was somewhat integrated in Hollywood.

Went to the red carpet premieres for the three star wars movies (his mother was friends with george lucas), return of the king, and the first hunger games (his father was second unit director).
Had a crush on Ashton Moio (http://thehungergames.wikia.com/wiki/Ashton_Moio) 's sister when she was 12
He exchanged some emails with Dale Launer, a successful screenwriter and friend of his father's, who was trying to get him to have a different attitude to women. He quit responding to these emails because he figured Launer couldn't help him.
 
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Considering his parents tried their best and nothing crazy-bad happened to him in terms if bullying, at some point it has to be "sorry you're becoming a danger to society" and let the police and law enforcement handle it.

There's some point where other people's right to safety trumps your right to privacy, and I dare say physical danger should be a non-controversy.

I disagree.

We still can retain our right to privacy and prevent violence like this.

All the cops had to do was obtain a search warrant once he made deadly threats.

Danger is averted without trampling the constitution.
 
I have to wonder, if this guy weren't a connected, rich kid would police have gotten a search warrant after his YouTube death threats.
 
A thorough analysis DA.

But i think we're missing something. We say that his parents never left him wanting. Could this be linked to his mentality of not EARNING anything?

In life you have to earn things. You have to work hard to earn money to get those expensive things you want. You can't expect women to fall into your lap. You have to earn them (by earn i mean treat them nicely, make them laugh, earn their trust etc).

Maybe him being spoilt rotten by his parents had that effect on him. That is where he gets his false sense of entitlement from. If you're so used to being given everything without earning it, then you have no motivation to make something of yourself.

So in a way he didn't have a healthy upbringing.
 
A thorough analysis DA.

But i think we're missing something. We say that his parents never left him wanting. Could this be linked to his mentality of not EARNING anything?

In life you have to earn things. You have to work hard to earn money to get those expensive things you want. You can't expect women to fall into your lap. You have to earn them (by earn i mean treat them nicely, make them laugh, earn their trust etc).

Maybe him being spoilt rotten by his parents had that effect on him. That is where he gets his false sense of entitlement from. If you're so used to being given everything without earning it, then you have no motivation to make something of yourself.

So in a way he didn't have a healthy upbringing.

As far as I can tell, the only things he ever worked hard for were his world of warcraft character (got to level 60), writing this 140 page document, and buying thousands of lottery tickets. He talks about having spent one year learning to skateboard when he was 8 or 9 or 10 and quitting when he saw that other kids were better than him at skateboarding.

He writes a 140 page summary of his work and he never talks about working hard for something or wanting anything other than hot blondes, which by the way he didn't work hard for.

It does seem like a problem. He seemed to believe that everything should be easy. He complains about not having a talent without understanding that talents emerge from perspiration. So I think you have a point in that he was spoiled, but a lot of kids out there are spoiled rotten and don't become mass killers.
 
A thorough analysis DA.

But i think we're missing something. We say that his parents never left him wanting. Could this be linked to his mentality of not EARNING anything?

In life you have to earn things. You have to work hard to earn money to get those expensive things you want. You can't expect women to fall into your lap. You have to earn them (by earn i mean treat them nicely, make them laugh, earn their trust etc).

Maybe him being spoilt rotten by his parents had that effect on him. That is where he gets his false sense of entitlement from. If you're so used to being given everything without earning it, then you have no motivation to make something of yourself.

So in a way he didn't have a healthy upbringing.

You have a point.

This guy was racist, misogynist, entitled, lazy, superficial, egotistical, violent, angry, lacking empathy, materialistic, selfish, creepy, etc.

C'mon, the parents were clearly not teaching this kid the right lessons growing up.

Yes, they made an effort to socialize him but that doesn't excuse all of his twisted viewpoints.
 
As far as I can tell, the only things he ever worked hard for were his world of warcraft character (got to level 60), writing this 140 page document, and buying thousands of lottery tickets. He talks about having spent one year learning to skateboard when he was 8 or 9 or 10 and quitting when he saw that other kids were better than him at skateboarding.

He writes a 140 page summary of his work and he never talks about working hard for something or wanting anything other than hot blondes, which by the way he didn't work hard for.

It does seem like a problem. He seemed to believe that everything should be easy. He complains about not having a talent without understanding that talents emerge from perspiration. So I think you have a point in that he was spoiled, but a lot of kids out there are spoiled rotten and don't become mass killers.

True. I'm not saying his parents are entirely to blame, of course not. But i think they are partly to blame for his entitled view on life. How he expects everything to fall into his lap. I mean, where did he get the money to buy all those lottery tickets?

Obviously he had some screws loose though.
 
A thorough analysis DA.

But i think we're missing something. We say that his parents never left him wanting. Could this be linked to his mentality of not EARNING anything?

In life you have to earn things. You have to work hard to earn money to get those expensive things you want. You can't expect women to fall into your lap. You have to earn them (by earn i mean treat them nicely, make them laugh, earn their trust etc).

Maybe him being spoilt rotten by his parents had that effect on him. That is where he gets his false sense of entitlement from. If you're so used to being given everything without earning it, then you have no motivation to make something of yourself.

So in a way he didn't have a healthy upbringing.

Good points. And taking into account about his narcisistic attitude and the superiority complex even towards other races one has to wonder. Didn't his parents ever teach him the virtues of being noble and humble, besides giving him material goods?
Cause those are things that you are taught at a young age by your family and school and that kid clearly lacked them.
Edit: Messiah and DA summed up my thoughts.
 
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From bodybuilding.com

stw3g54xwto3d18y1oxe.png
 
I disagree.

We still can retain our right to privacy and prevent violence like this.

All the cops had to do was obtain a search warrant once he made deadly threats.

Danger is averted without trampling the constitution.

If anything, federal agencies and social media corporations spend time and money collecting data on peaceful activists and targeting ads BS.
Why not put the same focus on helping mentally ill kids who make their threats public on forums and vids.
And I am not talking only about arresting them thus preventing a mass killing from happening. These kids should be taken medical treatment and be advised from specialists on human psyche.
 
You have a point.

This guy was racist, misogynist, entitled, lazy, superficial, egotistical, violent, angry, lacking empathy, materialistic, selfish, creepy, etc.

C'mon, the parents were clearly not teaching this kid the right lessons growing up.

Yes, they made an effort to socialize him but that doesn't excuse all of his twisted viewpoints.

It's not that simple. Some people are just born a certain way whereby no amount of trying can change who they are. It's basically their nature in the same way someone might be naturally shy or a natural leader. In all honesty too often it's easy to blame the parents when a kids goes off the rails, but in this case there looks like serious attempts were made by them to do what they could. They clearly saw signs something was not right with their kid and tried to do something about it. Sometimes we just have to accept that at the end of the day nature might take its course and that no amount of teaching social rights and wrongs will alters the mind of someone who likes the idea of doing harm to people.
 
It's not that simple. Some people are just born a certain way whereby no amount of trying can change who they are. It's basically their nature in the same way someone might be naturally shy or a natural leader. In all honesty too often it's easy to blame the parents when a kids goes off the rails, but in this case there looks like serious attempts were made by them to do what they could. They clearly saw signs something was not right with their kid and tried to do something about it. Sometimes we just have to accept that at the end of the day nature might take its course and that no amount of teaching social rights and wrongs will alters the mind of someone who likes the idea of doing harm to people.

I agree with you.

But at the same time surely giving him everything he ever wanted on a plate must have led to his sense of self entitlement.
 
I agree with you.

But at the same time surely giving him everything he ever wanted on a plate must have led to his sense of self entitlement.

I don't agree at all. There are plenty of spoiled rich kids who haven't worked a day in their life who don't go around shooting people. No amount of money could make up for the fact he wanted to do this. I'm a creative person by nature, always have been, don't know why, that's just who I am. But if I was trained from my youth that my creative side was bad even though I loved the idea I would probably start hating the world. Built up over time it would be like a volcano where I'd eventually erupt and start drawing or painting because it's what I'd want to do.
 
It's not that simple. Some people are just born a certain way whereby no amount of trying can change who they are. It's basically their nature in the same way someone might be naturally shy or a natural leader. In all honesty too often it's easy to blame the parents when a kids goes off the rails, but in this case there looks like serious attempts were made by them to do what they could. They clearly saw signs something was not right with their kid and tried to do something about it. Sometimes we just have to accept that at the end of the day nature might take its course and that no amount of teaching social rights and wrongs will alters the mind of someone who likes the idea of doing harm to people.

I understand that nature decides who we are a great deal but I don't think this guy would've had the same twisted worldview under any circumstances.
 
I don't agree at all. There are plenty of spoiled rich kids who haven't worked a day in their life who don't go around shooting people. No amount of money could make up for the fact he wanted to do this. I'm a creative person by nature, always have been, don't know why, that's just who I am. But if I was trained from my youth that my creative side was bad even though I loved the idea I would probably start hating the world. Built up over time it would be like a volcano where I'd eventually erupt and start drawing or painting because it's what I'd want to do.

I'm not saying there is.

My point is, that sense of entitlement and how everything should be given to him is a product of his upbringing. People aren't just born expecting everything to be given to them on a silver plate.

I'm not saying him going on a killing spree necessarily is. He's obviously got some loose wiring from the get-go. His parents clearly spoiled him rotten, but they also clearly cared for him and wanted to help him. So i think his self entitlement came from being spoiled, but his homicidal urges and complete lack of empathy didn't.
 
I understand that nature decides who we are a great deal but I don't think this guy would've had the same twisted worldview under any circumstances.

I think he probably always would have had problems even if he had been adopted and raised in a different home, however maybe he would have had sufficient coping mechanisms for those problems to not snap.

Which is not to blame parents. There are bad and good parents in the world and never perfect parents. These parents tried in various ways to help as did his stepmother and some of his friends.

The issue is, that his list of problems is sufficiently vast that we cannot point to any one particular problem as the tipping point, as they are all the tipping point.
 

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