Should Batman kill again?

[deadskie]

It would be tempting to say yes, just because it would be along the lines of dropping the mother of all bombs--but that's just it. Once it was done, it would be done. And I don't think I would like the rammifications of such an act; the aftermath. It would destroy the Batman as we know him--it would destroy everything he stands for in the current comic book version.

And I know he was originally supposed to be and/or actually used to be a killer of sorts, but I can't help but latching onto that "supposed to" and "used to" musings. And so I think such things should stay out of the current comics. And so I'll stick with an adament no, but with exceptions.

And those exceptions would be: I wouldn't be opposed if it were to occur in a whole new line of Batman comics, or a single one-shot deal. (And I'd lean more towards the one-shot deal, because I'd really hate to see him turn into a Punisher kind of character--which, I could easily see him becoming, in the hands of the wrong writer.)

 

[kguillou]

I never really bought the whole "if batman kills joker, then joker wins" thing. If batman kills joker, then no one else has to die and suffer from the joker, its as simple as that. If batman had the balls to do what's necessary then Barbara gordon would still be able to walk, and countless people would still be alive. Joker is a psychopath who cannot be reasoned with and reformed, getting rid of him is doing society a big favor and saving alot of lives. But only joker though, because we've seen that Batman's other villains still have humanity left in them. Even people like two-face still have a chance to change as we saw in the "Face the face" arc. Joker however, can never be reasoned with.

 

[November Rain]

I'd much rather batman's thing not be against killer rather than against using guns to intimidate people.

It makes sense to me because he will continually keep slipping from the person he wants to be into the person he is destined to become.

I would like to see batman perhaps killing a new robin's mugger parents and thus taking up the responsibility of raising them good as another form of redemption.

 

[batman44]

Nope.

 

[maninthechair]

No. It's bad enough what Morrison is doing now. The second Batman kills is the second he ceases to exist... He may become another hero but the hero Batman doesn't kill. It's part of who he has become. He stands for something better.

 

[Rasputin911]

I never really bought the whole "if batman kills joker, then joker wins" thing. If batman kills joker, then no one else has to die and suffer from the joker, its as simple as that. If batman had the balls to do what's necessary then Barbara gordon would still be able to walk, and countless people would still be alive. Joker is a psychopath who cannot be reasoned with and reformed, getting rid of him is doing society a big favor and saving alot of lives. But only joker though, because we've seen that Batman's other villains still have humanity left in them. Even people like two-face still have a chance to change as we saw in the "Face the face" arc. Joker however, can never be reasoned with.

LOL, i think the Joker would be the villain i'd want Batman to kill the least, but i defenitely see what you're saying.

 

[theMan-Bat]

And yet Oliver Queen started killing bad guys in Mike Grell's series in the late 80s/early 90s (which is still part of his canon).

If Grant Morrison's statement of adding ALL of Batman's comic adventures to the modern day canon is correct (and his stories for BATMAN back that up) then retroactively he has killed.

Prior to that Batman does kill an alien in COSMIC ODYSSEY (1988) with a laser gun

Yes, he does. It was one of Darkseid's "dog soldiers" stranded in Gotham City and living in the sewer.

 

[Punchinello]

No. It's bad enough what Morrison is doing now. The second Batman kills is the second he ceases to exist... He may become another hero but the hero Batman doesn't kill. It's part of who he has become. He stands for something better.

Exactly! Morrisson was a genius when he did Serious House; but I don't want to continue reading anything post-RIP (no matter who wrote or drew any particular issue), because it ruins the whole point of BATMAN if the character kills. He has killed before, but it was in character then; but at the moment, especially with the rate/story direction that Morrisson and DC are going, it would be senseless for him to do so because Batman might snap, as he should. But knowing Morrisson, he probably will, but that does not make it any less of a cliche or bad writing because good writing will cease to exist- might as well give Batman lasers and control over the elements whilst DC's at it.

 

[dude stannis]

He shouldn't have stopped.

 

[Rasputin911]

He shouldn't have stopped.

that's the spirit t:

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I remember Batman was also willing to take life in the Burton films.

Batman has taken a life in all the Batman films except 2 and maybe a 3rd if 2 Face lived.

The Adam West Batman and Batman & Robin were the only 2 Batman live action films in which Batman did not kill someone.

you guys have no imagination. new things need to be tried eventually.

I will repeat: Batman's original incarnation was a killer. So actually take 5 seconds to think about it before hopping on the "i hate change" bandwagon.

True but he its not an issue of the original concept but an issue or what are people more familiar with.

No, and can you list examples where he has killed in the "616" (Earth-1) DC universe?

Hahaha.

There is no "616 universe" in the DC multiverse.

don't go all "infinite crisis" on me. He killed during the early parts of the Golden Age

And in more modern storys as well.But telling which stories are in continuity and which are not is a bit difficult.

The "real" Batman would be the commonly mainstream current incarnation of Batman.

the problem with that kind of statement is that "the commonly mainstream current incarnation" of Batmans character seems to change every 10 to 15 years.

there's a difference between not killing, and actually jumping to save the joker when the joker willingly jumps off a building.

True....but its not like Batman always "jumps" to save the Joker [or who ever].

In "A death in the family" Batman jumps out of a crashing helicopter to save himself allowing the Joker to crash.

Granted he tried to talk the Joker into jumping out of the helicopter as well but ultimatle the Joker refused and Batman saved himself.

 

[Majic Walrus]

the problem with that kind of statement is that "the commonly mainstream current incarnation" of Batmans character seems to change every 10 to 15 years.

Point taken. Maybe in 15 years we'll see a Punisher style Batman.

 

[Grommers]

This is an easy answer for me.


NO.


Why?


Because Batman doesn't kill for the sole reason, if he kills he is no different than the people he is trying to stop. He is no better, to better my point if you've ever seen "Kingdom under fire." Same sort of message, I don't think Batman ever went out with the intention to kill ike some of the villains. Yes it happens, but never intentionally, not like what Joe Chill did to his parents.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Yes, he does. It was one of Darkseid's "dog soldiers" stranded in Gotham City and living in the sewer.

That is so wrong.

1.) Kill

2.) GUN!

:facepalm

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Point taken. Maybe in 15 years we'll see a Punisher style Batman.

I doubt it.

 

[[A]]

Should Batman kill again?

Sure, why not? There's always a retcon up their sleeves.

 

[Johann Krauss]

I remember Batman killing in the comics and it didn't dramatically change the character.

 

[Majic Walrus]

I remember Batman killing in the comics and it didn't dramatically change the character.

When? How old are you?

 

[Comics N' Toons]

NO... why would someone who has been so traumatically and dramatically affected by a gun and death/murder WANT TO KILL...


He won't do it...

He only killed, before the character had a chance to REALLY develop

 

[C. W. Saturn]

NO... why would someone who has been so traumatically and dramatically affected by a gun and death/murder WANT TO KILL...

Yeah, because crime never breeds crime.

 

[Rasputin911]

NO... why would someone who has been so traumatically and dramatically affected by a gun and death/murder WANT TO KILL...


He won't do it...

He only killed, before the character had a chance to REALLY develop

i'd say most people would want to exact revenge in a bloody way(or at least most males)

 

[theMan-Bat]

That is so wrong.

1.) Kill

2.) GUN!

:facepalm

That is actually fathful to the source material - the original Batman Bill Finger and Bob Kane created.

1.) Kill

2.) GUN!

 

[Majic Walrus]

So what if it's faithful to the source material?

The original idea was "Bird Man" who wore non-working wings and a red jumpsuit. Batman was much better. And then Batman who doesn't kill was even better.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I still say an out-of-continuity graphic novel where he kills someone by letting them fall off a building as they've done something so sick the joker would be ashamed is a good idea. It would be about his path to redemption and the argument of if killing truly would fix things.

Of course, the one thing I hate about Batman comics is that Gordon never kills. I mean, I get that Bats doesn't, but Gordon should, he's a flipping police officer and has the right!

 

[theMan-Bat]

So what if it's faithful to the source material?

The original idea was "Bird Man" who wore non-working wings and a red jumpsuit. Batman was much better. And then Batman who doesn't kill was even better.

"Bird Man" was all Bob Kane could come up with by himself so he went to Bill Finger for help and Bill Finger turned Bob Kane's "Bird Man" idea into the original Batman. I don't have a problem with Batman using guns and killing some criminals on occasion as he did in the source material by his creators and Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns movies. If Batman is to function in any sort of quasi-real world, he wouldn't be able to avoid using lethal weapons and killing on occasion. By using guns and killing, what makes Batman any better than the killers he fights? The fact that he does not pray on innocents. The fact that he fights against crime.