Should Marvel buy back the rights/go PG13?

[Microchip]

If P:WZ dies critically and bombs at the box office, I'd say Lionsgate wouldn't mind saying goodbye to the Punisher. If that's so, should Marvel's movie studios attempt to buy his rights back?

Marvel won't make R-rated movies. But after seeing Casino Royale again last night, I got to thinking... Punisher probably would work in PG13/14A. That movie had tons of kills, including ones with nail guns, drownings, etc. There was a torture scene. However, it was all done in a way that kept it from going R.

With the exception of MAX, Punisher has never been R-rated as a comic. I think it COULD work. What's more, Marvel would be able to funnel in more money in, and hopefully legitamize the franchise.

Now hopefully P:WZ will do great. But if it doesn't, does anyone else here feel that this would be a good next step? Or should we just wait 4 more years for a new R-rated, low-budget attempt?

 

[Kable24]

when PWZ bombs at the box office this Christmas, LGF will not touch the Punisher franchise ever again and let the rights revert back to Marvel. Marvel should either not do a Punisher movie period or have him appear in another Marvel movie. And as much as people would be in an uproar about a PG-13 Punisher, I honestly think it could work. There are ways of getting around the violence and making it PG13 and a great movie. Look Iron Man had a guy get a ricocheted bullet in the head and people died in it and it was PG-13.

 

[Microchip]

I'll agree with you that P:WZ might not be good. However, I can't see it going straight to DVD, and I believe, considering as of now it's only up against Frost/Nixon on the 5th December, it WILL make a profit.

This might come from theatre tickets+DVD sales totalled worldwide, but I believe it won't go into the red. Therefore, LGF could gamble and try again.

I'd rather see Punisher standalone (maybe with crossovers) rather than being delagated to to side, but if he was cast well in a supporting role in a popular superhero's movie, it could lead to a popularity boost.

Again though, I believe a PG13 Punisher could work and work well. Iron Man is a good example, and I think Casino Royale really shows how far you can take it if you're willing to not go into a gorefest.

 

[HellHead]

The rating system is **** and needs a very serious overhaul.
A good movie transcends ratings, which should be the last thing on people's minds.

 

[Brendan]

Casino Royale is an extremely well made movie. I remember my sister was surprised that it was PG-13 too, but it's really always about how you go about filming and editing violence and how much you decide to show and how you show it that gets you the rating.


I've mentioned this before. I think the perfect Punisher movie would be one where the director has a vision that treats the movie realistically. Look at Batman Begins. The charaters in that movie aren't realistic and of course it's not really a realistic movie, but Nolan treats the characters as if they were real people and not comic book characters. I think the best Punisher flick would be more along the lines of movies like Memento and Heat.


Also, here's one problem I have with Casino Royale (and its the same problem I had with Shoot Em Up). I thought all the best action seqeunces were at the beginning of the movie. So by the end the film felt a little anti-climactic. Movie makers need to go back to saving the biggest explosions for the end of the movie. Now I'm not saying you have to get rid of all the cool **** at the beginning of the flick, they just need to deliver when it comes to topping those scenes by the end of it is all.

 

[HellHead]

Casino Royale is superb. I didn't know it was PG13 until reading it on here, which says a lot.

 

[Hellstormer]

I would love to see an honest to great Punisher movie. I have high hopes for this December one, but I wanna see that 80s superhero I've read so much about. When Marvel makes Punisher War Journal I think it could be good and pull off a PG-13 rating. And hell, maybe it'll even have a good storyline.

 

[comicfan4Life]

Marvel made an 1989 punisher film and it failed. marvel made another attempt and it failed again. If this one fails we might not ever get another punisher film again. Lionsgate might give back the rights if this fails, but if they do, what will Marvel do? Surely they can't make a pg-13 movie without some people going into an uproar, but a pg-13 comic movie can be good, especially the punisher. As many have posted, Casino Royale was a pretty kick-ass film and the action was great.

People were shown getting shot and they still got the pg-13 rating. But how did they do it? Simple, great direction. When you think about it, most punihser comics were pg-13. They showed blood and what not, and people getting shot. However, the bullet goes through someone and that's it, or close up of Frank's face and the muzzle flash were only shown when he did something nasty (head shot). That can be pulled off. if you're going to show a person get shot then do it. The guy gets shot, you see the bullet hole, blood comes out, and he falls. This could be used instead of shooting the man, blood splatters on the wall, he coughs it up, and his guts are hanging out.

However, sometimes certain things are better left undone. Lets be real here, when people see a amn in a skull shirt with guns shooting wise guys like it's open season, they want more. They want to see the raw up-close in your face stuff. Not having an R-rated punisher would be like a pg-13 Texas Chainsaw Massacre or a Friday the 13th. People have played the game, read the max comic, and even see some of the oldschool stuff as pretty hardcore. Return to big nothing for example, that story had alot of good action, and was pretty bloody for an oldschool comic. Especially that landmine part.

A Pg-13 punisher could work, but there's always the risk of it turning out like Matt Fraction's War Journal.

 

[comicfan4Life]

Marvel made an 1989 punisher film and it failed. marvel made another attempt and it failed again. If this one fails we might not ever get another punisher film again. Lionsgate might give back the rights if this fails, but if they do, what will Marvel do? Surely they can't make a pg-13 movie without some people going into an uproar, but a pg-13 comic movie can be good, especially the punisher. As many have posted, Casino Royale was a pretty kick-ass film and the action was great.

People were shown getting shot and they still got the pg-13 rating. But how did they do it? Simple, great direction. When you think about it, most punihser comics were pg-13. They showed blood and what not, and people getting shot. However, the bullet goes through someone and that's it, or close up of Frank's face and the muzzle flash were only shown when he did something nasty (head shot). That can be pulled off. if you're going to show a person get shot then do it. The guy gets shot, you see the bullet hole, blood comes out, and he falls. This could be used instead of shooting the man, blood splatters on the wall, he coughs it up, and his guts are hanging out.

However, sometimes certain things are better left undone. Lets be real here, when people see a amn in a skull shirt with guns shooting wise guys like it's open season, they want more. They want to see the raw up-close in your face stuff. Not having an R-rated punisher would be like a pg-13 Texas Chainsaw Massacre or a Friday the 13th. People have played the game, read the max comic, and even see some of the oldschool stuff as pretty hardcore. Return to big nothing for example, that story had alot of good action, and was pretty bloody for an oldschool comic. Especially that landmine part.

A Pg-13 punisher could work, but there's always the risk of it turning out like Matt Fraction's War Journal.

 

[Brendan]

Marvel made an 1989 punisher film and it failed. marvel made another attempt and it failed again. If this one fails we might not ever get another punisher film again. Lionsgate might give back the rights if this fails, but if they do, what will Marvel do? Surely they can't make a pg-13 movie without some people going into an uproar, but a pg-13 comic movie can be good, especially the punisher. As many have posted, Casino Royale was a pretty kick-ass film and the action was great.

People were shown getting shot and they still got the pg-13 rating. But how did they do it? Simple, great direction. When you think about it, most punihser comics were pg-13. They showed blood and what not, and people getting shot. However, the bullet goes through someone and that's it, or close up of Frank's face and the muzzle flash were only shown when he did something nasty (head shot). That can be pulled off. if you're going to show a person get shot then do it. The guy gets shot, you see the bullet hole, blood comes out, and he falls. This could be used instead of shooting the man, blood splatters on the wall, he coughs it up, and his guts are hanging out.

However, sometimes certain things are better left undone. Lets be real here, when people see a amn in a skull shirt with guns shooting wise guys like it's open season, they want more. They want to see the raw up-close in your face stuff. Not having an R-rated punisher would be like a pg-13 Texas Chainsaw Massacre or a Friday the 13th. People have played the game, read the max comic, and even see some of the oldschool stuff as pretty hardcore. Return to big nothing for example, that story had alot of good action, and was pretty bloody for an oldschool comic. Especially that landmine part.

A Pg-13 punisher could work, but there's always the risk of it turning out like Matt Fraction's War Journal.

Its funny you bring up Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Back in the 70's there was no PG-13 rating yet, there was just the PG rating. That was actually the rating that the filmmakers of TCM were aiming for. If you go back and watch the movie, its not really all that gorey.

 

[Microchip]

Marvel made an 1989 punisher film and it failed. marvel made another attempt and it failed again.

I was under the impression that the 2004 one was Lions Gate as well. I really don't know much about the first one, but it apparently had a 9 million budget, and the second had 15 million.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I meant Marvel Studios, who is responsible for the Iron Man and Incredible Hulk movie. I believe the two movies you cited are made by different studios, with the characters being leased out by Marvel. If Marvel Studios did a PG13 Punisher, then then hopefully they could put a larger budget than 9, 15, or 30 million towards it.

However, I don't know. Maybe people wouldn't accept a less gory Punisher. I'd personally give it a try though.

 

[Hellstormer]

I know quite a few people lurking around this board who wouldn't. I'm just waiting for them to come in here and start *****ing.

 

[Kable24]

89 Punisher - New World Pictures Australia
04 Punisher - Artisan/LGF
08 Punisher - LGF

 

[S. Grundy]

Lions Gate had nothing to do with the production of the last one. They bought Artisan and the film rights to the character became theirs.

 

[Kable24]

That's why I put Artisan first and then the /LGF. LGF was handling the marketing when they bought out Artisan.

 

[comicfan4Life]

Its funny you bring up Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Back in the 70's there was no PG-13 rating yet, there was just the PG rating. That was actually the rating that the filmmakers of TCM were aiming for. If you go back and watch the movie, its not really all that gorey.

I know that now, but back when I saw it as a kid I couldn't tell the difference. I couldn't sleep for a week!

Also, my bad Micro. I read that wrong. Marvel studios could do PG-13 punisher, but I doubt they'll do a punisher for a long time if warzone doesn't do good. If three movies based on the same character fail, they might get the idea that Frank doesn't belong in his own movie. Call me crazy put I'd love to see punihser in other films if Marvel Studios doesn't want to give him his solo movie. Imagine a daredevil movie where Murdock has to fight against & for Frank on the streets and in the courtroom. That'd be pretty sweet. But most won't give punisher a chance if there's no gore. Like Hellstorm said, there's quite a few around here like that.

 

[Hellstormer]

Marvel said before that Punisher has the perfect concept for a movie, no one seems to get the reality down.

 

[comicfan4Life]

^Exactly! How can they not get a simple concept of man comes home from war, goes to picnic in Central Pary, family gets gunned down by mob, Castle becomes punisher, punisher kills alot of people? It's very simple, just stick to the source material! There are countless areas of Castle's history to draw from and Warzone looks as if it draws from the 70's to now, which i'm damn happy about.

 

[Brendan]

Well I mean the vigilante genre has been done to death in movies so a lot of the times those movies are just more of the same, so maybe more people are intimidated to make vigilante movies because of that.

But the thing is, The Punisher is like no other fictional vigilante. No one comes close to the body count this guy has. The dude's mindset and his commitment to the cause is more extreme than any other character's. No one is unstoppable the way he is. No one has been doing it as long as he has. No one has the same sense of morality he has.

 

[comicfan4Life]

^ All great points there. I know what you mean about the vigilante genre. For example Death Snetence was good, but it died at the box office. I guess people were tired and wanted something new. The brave one was good too, but not nearly as good as Death Sentence in my opinion. To me, Death Sentence had more drama and in a way was like castle. His son dies and then he takes matters into his own hands. The gang then kills his wife, puts his other son in a coma, and leaves him for dead. He's broken down, looks like a zombie, and he has nothing to live for now, then he kicks some ass.

However, most movie goers didn't think so. Every opinion is different, most movie goers and fans hated the 04 movie, but some obviously like it from what I've seen on these boards. If warzone is good, but fails like deathsentence then fine. Let Lionsgate give the rights back to Marvel, hell they know the character and we've seen what happens when the makers back their own films and characters (Ironman & Hulk), so punisher could easily kick ass under Marvel Studios. The thing I'm worried about though is given the failure of the first, second, and hopefully the third won't suck, but if it does, will Marvel think it even worthy of time trying use their own money and bother making another punisher when they could be cranking out Captain America, or Hulk 2, or Thor, or anyother project. If Warzone fails, Daredevil might have a better chance at a reboot than punisher.

 

[Brendan]

Does Fox still have the rights to Daredevil, or did they revert back to Marvel yet?

 

[comicfan4Life]

They probly don't. It's been six years since Daredevil, but then Elektra came out in 05. They probly don't have them but I'll do some searching to find out. If they do, they might as well hand them over because Ben Affleck said he doesn't feel there's anything to do with the sequel, or if Kevin Smith doesn't do it then he won't return. Guy Pearce didn't even want to touch Daredevil.

 

[comicfan4Life]

I just looked it up and I read from a recent interview with Avi Arad saying the punisher would not get a reboot but a sequel when the rights go back Marvel Studios. He didn't say when the rights would go back. I guess since Daredevil was #1 at the box-office they figure a reboot isn't needed. Lame if you ask me.

 

[Microchip]

Do you have a link to him saying that? The only thing I could find was a blurb from 2006, which seemed to be talking sequels to 2004's movie, not P:WZ.

Maybe they should reboot Punisher and Daredevil at the same time. A Punisher vs. Daredevil movie... wait just long enough for people to forget about their respective movies. Of course, maybe Punisher WZ will do fine, but they could always do a sequel to that and put Daredevil in there. And a better Bullseye.

 

[comicfan4Life]

Do you have a link to him saying that? The only thing I could find was a blurb from 2006, which seemed to be talking sequels to 2004's movie, not P:WZ.

Maybe they should reboot Punisher and Daredevil at the same time. A Punisher vs. Daredevil movie... wait just long enough for people to forget about their respective movies. Of course, maybe Punisher WZ will do fine, but they could always do a sequel to that and put Daredevil in there. And a better Bullseye.

I agree, punisher vs. daredevil would rock. Also, here's the link.

http://www.efavata.com/CBM/DareDevil2.htm