Sequels SHOULD Singer even return to the X-Men franchise?

Sound Singer return?

  • Yes, I want things to go possibly back to the way they were.

  • No, I want to see what someone else can do with the franchise.

  • Don't really care as long as the franchise lives back up to its potential.


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Frankly, SR felt like a big budget major motion picture, while X-men felt like...well, a half-assed, half hearted attempt.

And you are wrong right here.

Superman Returns was dog ****.

X-Men and to a greater extent, X-2 were great films.

All this whining about not sticking 100% to the comics. Tough ****. The films were ADAPTATIONS of the X-Men comics. And in my, and A LOT of other peoples opinions, good ones. The people who hate on Singers movies are in the minority, that's a fact. It might be hard for some of you to accept that fact, but well, it's still a fact.

These films are not made JUST for comic book fans, deal with it.
 
furthermore, the better directors and writers know how to get character developement and screen time for multiple characters in a story arc. SPLIT THEM UP--DUH!!!

...which is exactly what they do in X2.
 
Yep, people who think no one else got development in X-2 apart from Wolverine need to open their eyes.

****, we got a real insight into Mystique character with a single line.
 
And you are wrong right here.

Superman Returns was dog ****.

X-Men and to a greater extent, X-2 were great films.

No. He's right. Superman Returns' problem is the pacing and storyline, and a number of other things, but it does feel like a big budget film... and it was, much to its demise.
 
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X-2 felt like a big budget film.

The fact is, X-1 and X-2 were better execute films. So this crap of "Well Singer didn't really care about the X-Men, not more than Superman" is, crap.
 
Let the Singerverse go? We have had the Ratnerverse and the Gavinverse...both sucked. If Wolverine 2 continues what Gavin Hood started, it will suck. If X4 continues with what Ratner started, it will suck.

Singer is the only one that has done a good job. We can wish for a reboot all we want...not gonna happen any time soon. We can wish for another director to come in and give us a new interpretation...but we are 0 for 2 in that department. Some of you highly underestimate Fox's ability to ruin films.

As long as the X-Men remain at Fox, they will never have their due in Hollywood.

Yes, Fox is ultimatley at the heart of the problem. Nothing will change as long as all things X-related are under Fox.

Like I said, it's just endlessly fustrating...such a great comicbook, with such great stories and characters--so much film potential.....wasted.

I remember being in high school and looking out the window of my art class and imagining what a real life battle between the Phoenix and the X-men (futile, yeah I know) on the great lawn of Central Park would look like. The sfx, the dynamic action....wow. It's why I really get a twinge whenever someone mentions Peter Jackson directing an X-men movie--WOW! Can you imagine...Jackson has an eye and flair for fantasy. Can you imagine what the phoenix would look like under PJand WETA?
 
Yep, people who think no one else got development in X-2 apart from Wolverine need to open their eyes.

****, we got a real insight into Mystique character with a single line.

The film still revolves around Wolverine's journey, and he's obviously the focus, but you can't say 'do this insead' when the movie did it and did it pretty well.
 
It's not just about Wolverines journey.

It just so happens that a great threat to mutant kind is from Wolverine's past. There is nothing wrong with that.

Wolverine wasn't the only one who got focus in X-2.

X-3 is the film that had him have all the attention for no real reason other than because he is the most popular character.
 
X-2 felt like a big budget film.

The fact is, X-1 and X-2 were better execute films. So this crap of "Well Singer didn't really care about the X-Men, not more than Superman" is, crap.

Singer probably did care more about Superman than the X-Men, just like how I care more about the X-Men than Superman... but none of it's really going to matter if Fox doesn't care about the X-Men, and that's the problem.
 
I don't really care as long as the franchise lives back up to its potential.

I like what he's done so far, but the Wolverine focus was kinda annoying at times (though I love the films & character)

If he does come back I'd love to see how he handles an X-film w/o Wolverine... who would he cast into the spotlight??? would he actually focus on multiple heroes???
 
It's not just about Wolverines journey.

It just so happens that a great threat to mutant kind is from Wolverine's past. There is nothing wrong with that.

Wolverine wasn't the only one who got focus in X-2.

X-3 is the film that had him have all the attention for no real reason other than because he is the most popular character.

I can't particularly complain about the fact that they adapted the Dark Phoenix Saga to cater more toward Wolverine, when they adapted God Loves, Man Kills to cater more toward Wolverine as well... I can, however, complain about the way in which they did the former.
 
And you are wrong right here.

Superman Returns was dog ****.

X-Men and to a greater extent, X-2 were great films.

All this whining about not sticking 100% to the comics. Tough ****. The films were ADAPTATIONS of the X-Men comics. And in my, and A LOT of other peoples opinions, good ones. The people who hate on Singers movies are in the minority, that's a fact. It might be hard for some of you to accept that fact, but well, it's still a fact.

These films are not made JUST for comic book fans, deal with it.

While so hostile Ace?

SR wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but it was well made. You felt like you were watching a major motion picture. The only time I got that big budget feel from X-men was during the infamous Night Crawler.
 
Have to agree that SR was trash, whether I approach it from a Superman fan angle, or a general movie critic angle.
 
...which is exactly what they do in X2.

True.

This is the only way to give the individual team members ample or moreso meaningful screen time for character developement. Even so, it was done sparingly.
 
X-2 felt like a big budget film.

The fact is, X-1 and X-2 were better execute films. So this crap of "Well Singer didn't really care about the X-Men, not more than Superman" is, crap.

If you want to tell me X-2 felt like a big budget film compared to X-1, fine. But there's no way X-2 feels like a big budget tent pole film in comparison to the likes of SR or other notables.

I make no argument for SR substance. But the overall craftmanship was well done.

It is a simple fact; when you care about something deeply, you tend to take a stake in it personally for lack of better words--as most artists do. Singer is a huge fanboy of Donner's films--and he let it get the best of him.

Singer was no fan of X-men. While he may have developed and affinity for them based on their premise, he was no fan. If so he would have seen the X-men as more than he chose to bring to the screen.

Obviously, you have to factor in the respective studios to be fair to Singer.
 
I've heard the arguments for Cyclops being alive but like I said they're not going to bring Cyclops back unless the crew feels like it and they most likely won't. Cyclops was viewed as unimportant enough to be apparantly killed off 15 minutes into a film offscreen.

Cyclops' ties to Sinister, Cable, Madelyne are irrelevant. They gave the Phoenix Saga to Wolverine, they can give those stories to him too. I can even see it now: Wolverine is the ultimate mutant and Sinister wants him to procreate with Jean Grey to create more super mutant babies. Sinister creates Madelyne to replace Jean so she and Wolverine make sweet music together. Cable is Wolverine from the future like in the Ultimate X-Men universe.

I think X3 also revealed that aspect to the X-Films to me as well: Fox is willing to take whatever X-Men story they can and make Wolverine the center regardless of how well he suits the role. At least in X1 and X2 his storyline was not being Cyclops like it was in X3.
From your avatar and your opinions, I can see that you probably harbor much resentment for Cyclops' treatment in the films, especially X3. In light of that, it's reasonable that you would have the thoughts about his future involvement that you have. However, I think that not further exploring what really happened at Alkali Lake and incorporating that into a grander storyline for Cyclops would be a grave mistake as it would possibly open a sizable plothole for the series, all for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

In addition, though I don't believe you were being wholly serious about the writers having Logan replace Scott in the whole Sinister/Madelyne/Cable storyline, I'll entertain it for a moment, starting with X3.

Logan "replacing" Scott in this altered Phoenix saga works more in the context of the series' story because indirectly, it finally shows him being more than a reluctant team member and capable of handling a leadership role, and more importantly, it shows how very different and dangerous Jean is from the beginning. Moreover, it gives some sort of closure to Logan fawning over Jean, who doesn't and probably won't ever fully reciprocate his same feelings.

Logan "replacing" Scott in a Sinister/Madelyne Pryor/Cable storyline is likely to be less effective for a number of reasons:
  • The Sinister/Madelyne Pryor/Cable storyline is arguably more adaptable than the Phoenix storyline, so there shouldn't be any need to alter it far beyond what's in the comics.
  • If I'm not mistaken, Sinister can only be hurt by Cyclops' beams (or the Summers' family in general). Given what may transpire from the Alkali Lake incident to Cyclops being able to take action against Sinister, seeing him finally let loose like every other character has, in a major storyline revolving around him no less, would be appropriate and exciting. Given Sinister's regenerative capabilities, Wolverine going into a berserker rage would probably just make Sinister laugh at him.
  • Logan's arc is largely resolved. He's gained some understanding of his past, he's learned how to be a more effective team member, and he's likely past wanting to be loved by Jean, and if he hasn't achieved the latter, introducing Scott with Madelyne would bring about an interesting dramatic circumstance that should close that book.
  • This is mostly conditional, but I believe that the prequels are being made to set up more epic sequels by expanding the X-Men universe and developing the characters within it to avoid having to do so in the sequels. In relevance to this list, I think that Sinister is likely to play a role in X-Men: First Class to mirror his involvement with Scott since Scott's childhood in the comics. If my belief is true, that makes Scott being involved in the Sinister/Madelyne Pryor/Cable storyline all the more stronger, and Logan "replacing" him rather random and more unwarranted.
Still, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

On the note of the actual topic, it doesn't matter to me who directs, as long as the story progresses in an interesting fashion and the film has an appropriate amount of character development and action.
 
The first X-Men movie wasn't JUST about Wolverine. It was about Wolverine AND Rogue being introduced into the world of the X-Men. It was from their POV so of course those two get most screen time and development. And Storms chat with Senator Kelly gives us an insight into who she is and how she feels, so don't give me that crap about no other characters got any development at all.

Who saved the day? The team

The second movie was about this threat to mutant kind. It just so happens that threat is from Wolverines past. What's the problem with that? And X-2 also had development for more of the characters, not just Wolverine. ie. Bobby. Nightcrawler. Even Mystique in ONE line shows us a lot about her.

Who saved the day? The team.

X-3 was the one that turned into the Wolverine show. It was more blatant and illogical. The previous 2 movies had REAL reasons for Wolverine to get some attention. X-3, did not.

Who saved the day? Wolverine.

Sums up my feelings perfectly, X3 did what I thought was impossible it made me dislike Wolverine and think he looked ridiculous, he had no business doing what he in X3, were as in X1 and X2 he had every business doing what he did, that was the difference, and it was a major one.
 
From your avatar and your opinions, I can see that you probably harbor much resentment for Cyclops' treatment in the films, especially X3. In light of that, it's reasonable that you would have the thoughts about his future involvement that you have. However, I think that not further exploring what really happened at Alkali Lake and incorporating that into a grander storyline for Cyclops would be a grave mistake as it would possibly open a sizable plothole for the series, all for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

In addition, though I don't believe you were being wholly serious about the writers having Logan replace Scott in the whole Sinister/Madelyne/Cable storyline, I'll entertain it for a moment, starting with X3.

Logan "replacing" Scott in this altered Phoenix saga works more in the context of the series' story because indirectly, it finally shows him being more than a reluctant team member and capable of handling a leadership role, and more importantly, it shows how very different and dangerous Jean is from the beginning. Moreover, it gives some sort of closure to Logan fawning over Jean, who doesn't and probably won't ever fully reciprocate his same feelings.

Logan "replacing" Scott in a Sinister/Madelyne Pryor/Cable storyline is likely to be less effective for a number of reasons:
  • The Sinister/Madelyne Pryor/Cable storyline is arguably more adaptable than the Phoenix storyline, so there shouldn't be any need to alter it far beyond what's in the comics.
  • If I'm not mistaken, Sinister can only be hurt by Cyclops' beams (or the Summers' family in general). Given what may transpire from the Alkali Lake incident to Cyclops being able to take action against Sinister, seeing him finally let loose like every other character has, in a major storyline revolving around him no less, would be appropriate and exciting. Given Sinister's regenerative capabilities, Wolverine going into a berserker rage would probably just make Sinister laugh at him.
  • Logan's arc is largely resolved. He's gained some understanding of his past, he's learned how to be a more effective team member, and he's likely past wanting to be loved by Jean, and if he hasn't achieved the latter, introducing Scott with Madelyne would bring about an interesting dramatic circumstance that should close that book.
  • This is mostly conditional, but I believe that the prequels are being made to set up more epic sequels by expanding the X-Men universe and developing the characters within it to avoid having to do so in the sequels. In relevance to this list, I think that Sinister is likely to play a role in X-Men: First Class to mirror his involvement with Scott since Scott's childhood in the comics. If my belief is true, that makes Scott being involved in the Sinister/Madelyne Pryor/Cable storyline all the more stronger, and Logan "replacing" him rather random and more unwarranted.
Still, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

On the note of the actual topic, it doesn't matter to me who directs, as long as the story progresses in an interesting fashion and the film has an appropriate amount of character development and action.

I don't know, X3 just showed to me that most of these points don't have any real importance to Fox. It won't take much for Fox to mix things around and say that Sinister can only be hurt by adamantium. They would alter the Madelyne story not because they need to but because they don't want to make a film revolving around Cyclops. Logan's arc has been resolved in X3, but many people pointed out that his arc should have been resolved in X2. Once again, X3 showed me they'll give a story to Wolverine when there isn't a good story for Wolverine to tell because Wolverine is the money maker.

I think the only hope for the franchise to recover from X3 is if the First Class does set up for X4, but only in the way that it proves that Wolverine is not mandatory for a successful X-Men film. Too many people think that if you take Wolverine out of the limelight even for a second it would lead to a box office dud.
 
I want Singer back. He knows the franchise in the canon it has started in. He knows how to keep the movie intellectual. Bring him back. I don't want anymore X films dumbed down to bad action movies.
 
^Same, at least you know with Singer it wont just be a movie to showcase some action scene's, he will get more than that in there he always does, with Singer, you can feel pretty safe it will be a good movie.
 
That's true. Wolverine is good but it's very much an "action-flick" and that's not Singer's......style. Personally, I think it would be great if he returned to the franchise and did X4 or possibly First Class. He's said in an interview ""I'm still looking to possibly returning to the X-Men franchise - I've been talking to Fox about it" so there is a possibilty it could happen. Fingers crossed.
 
^Lets hope so, Wolverine would have been a very different and better movie if Singer had directed it, same with X3, especially X3 in fact.
 
Cyclops coming back would only be a retcon if it was stated the scene between he and Jean never happened. Anything else that happened is just more story.

Though Singer and Marsden do appear to be close, it's somewhat doubtful after the events of X3, both story and productionwise, Cyclops would return. Although, they bothered to put Cyclops into WOLVERINE, so...perhaps the studio doesn't think the character is completely worthless.

In X3, the team helped save the day in general. Wolverine saved the day from Dark Phoenix, but Jean helped him do so.
 
SR felt like a big budget major motion picture, while X-men felt like...well, a half-assed, half hearted attempt.

Im agreed with that.

The X-men movies, X3 included, didnt seem like a big blockbuster...

I dont know what it is...

but watching films like Spiderman, Transformers, Harry Potter, Pirates... you feel its a big movie.... but I never felt that with the Xfilms.

Maybe its Fox... the sets... the editing...

dont know.
 
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