Should the US pull out of the Middle East entirely?

[PLAS]

Clint Eastwood for President!

he would have done a much better job

 

[kane9321]

^^^ no doubt

 

[TheSumOfGod]

President Eastwood: "Well, Saddam, you gotta ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, PUNK?!"

 

[PLAS]

President Eastwood: "Well, Saddam, you gotta ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, PUNK?!"

but what are the chances that Eastwood would appoint a monkey as his head of homeland security?

 

[sinewave]

but what are the chances that Eastwood would appoint a monkey as his head of homeland security?

this is too easy. i've got to fight the urge to make an obvious joke.

 

[PLAS]

this is too easy. i've got to fight the urge to make an obvious joke.

you know you want to do it, come on!!! go for it

 

[FunBobPants]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

 

[sinewave]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

remind me again why we're fighting in iraq?

 

[CrAzYMoFo]

You could make an argument saying that we should never have gotten involved in the Middle East/ Israel in the first place, but its illogical to think that we should pull out now. We're in this situation for good, pulling out is not an option. What we should be focusing on now is creating an Iraq that can defend for itself, and we're seeing dramatic improvement in that area.

 

[JLBats]

remind me again why we're fighting in iraq?

...Cheese and Onions?

 

[sinewave]

...Cheese and Onions?

oh yeah, i forgot how delicious a country iraq really is.

 

[Danger Mouse]

Why? Terrorists don't attack because they "hate freedom" or want our women to cover their skin. They attack us because of our involvement with Israel.

I totally agree. America's involvement served only to escalate tensions between Israel and Palestine. America started to get involved because at one point the Israelis needed the US to defend them. Now, after so many decades, the Israeli army is well equiped to defend themselves. Hence, except to further add oil to fire, I see no purpose of having the US involving themselves in it.

Do you really think pulling out of the Middle East is going to stop terrorism? It may simply embolden muslim radicals. After all that's exactly what Bin Laden wanted.

What Bin Laden wanted is an end to American involvements. He waged a war against America and Israel specifically, not the concept of western capitalisation. Muslims radicals were born out of hatred for the American's meddlesome nature that they perceive.

Which would send us back to the early 1900s with isolationism, America standing by and doing nothing while the world deteriorates and then millions die in another world war. Excellent idea.

The world is deteriorating because of American involvements.

I don't see how pulling out of the Middle East entirely is going to end terrorism. As long as there's religious fundamentalism over there there's going to be terrorism.

Religious fundamentalism does not breed terrorism. Terrorism is bred out of hatred and despair for the terrorised party. If given close research, you'll see that the terroristic attacks are actually in retaliation to the actions of the targeted nations. Those who maintained a relatively neutral or non-adverserial stand such as China or Russia or Canada or Mexico or Singapore or Japan (and the list goes on) are not targets despite having totally opposite religious or cultural backgrounds with the Middle East.

 

[CrAzYMoFo]

I totally agree. America's involvement served only to escalate tensions between Israel and Palestine. America started to get involved because at one point the Israelis needed the US to defend them. Now, after so many decades, the Israeli army is well equiped to defend themselves. Hence, except to further add oil to fire, I see no purpose of having the US involving themselves in it.

What Bin Laden wanted is an end to American involvements. He waged a war against America and Israel specifically, not the concept of western capitalisation. Muslims radicals were born out of hatred for the American's meddlesome nature that they perceive.

The world is deteriorating because of American involvements.

Religious fundamentalism does not breed terrorism. Terrorism is bred out of hatred and despair for the terrorised party. If given close research, you'll see that the terroristic attacks are actually in retaliation to the actions of the targeted nations. Those who maintained a relatively neutral or non-adverserial stand such as China or Russia or Canada or Mexico or Singapore or Japan (and the list goes on) are not targets despite having totally opposite religious or cultural backgrounds with the Middle East.

The Isreali army is not well enough equipped to take on Palestine. Palestine as a region includes 3 countries (correct me if I'm wrong), and Israel alone is not capable of fighting them. That was the whole purpose of giving up the Gazza Strip, because Israel needs to have the backing of the world should Palestine push farther. As of now, if the World didn't put pressure on Palestine to back off, they would be killing for Jerusalem right now, as many Hamas leaders have said they would. Without major power backing Israel, they are defenseless. A similar situation would be Taiwan and China, China is just waiting to pounce on Taiwan, but our navy fleet and economic relevence in China stops them.

Osama Bin Laden hates America because of the western culture that it stands for. The whole purpose of him attacking us in the first place is because he believed that we would back down to a fight should we face guerilla opposition. To support his point he mentioned two cases in which America backed out from a fight when faced with guerilla opposition, Vietnam and Somalia. American involvement is what keeps the Middle East from becoming more opposed to us. To say that terrorist organizations do not hate us for our western culture is not true. Many fundamentalist leaders have been put into power for the sole purpose of stopping the spread of Western Culture. Ayotollah Khomeini in Iran being one of them. Pulling out is just what Osama wants because that shows weakness on our part. Wars are not always won by weapons, but by intimidation. Thats the reason we lost the Vietnam war and the battle in Somalia.

To say that religious fundamentalism doesn't breed terrorism is both true and false. Its true that people don't kill because their religion tells them to. However, radical leaders such as Ayotollah Khomeini (sp) used religion as a method of recruiting fighters (many of them children). It is true that much of the hostility towards America from Iran was from our support of the Shah, but Ayotollah was far worse than the Shah. And how did he gain power? Through his teachings that if people gave their lives for his cause, they would gain passsage to heaven. He would arm children with the Koran and a "key to heaven" and would order them to march on the Iraq soldiers in the Iraq vs Iran war, their sole purpose to waste the Iraqi ammunition and push the line back. There is no way these children would have done such a thing if they did not believe that they would go to heaven after their death.

You cannot compare China, Japan, Mexico, and Canada to the US because they not only have very different cultures, but do not have the same world influence that the US does. Because we have such an influence in the world, of course groups are going to hate our ideologies.

 

[Addendum]

I don't know about the Middle East, but the Iraqis need to grow some balls and actually secure their damn country.

 

[FunBobPants]

remind me again why we're fighting in iraq?

because the terrorists are evil ****heads who must be stopped.

 

[Backdrifter]

I was listening to a replay of Art Bell last night, and a former Navy or Marine general suggested the United States pull out of the Middle East entirely. Stop supporting Israel, stop interfering with their affairs. Have strictly diplomatic trade relations with some of them, but nothing beyond that. He claimed this is the only REAL way to stop Middle Eastern terrorism and stabilize the Middle East.

What are your thoughts?

That guy is probably right.

 

[Backdrifter]

The Isreali army is not well enough equipped to take on Palestine. Palestine as a region includes 3 countries (correct me if I'm wrong), and Israel alone is not capable of fighting them. That was the whole purpose of giving up the Gazza Strip, because Israel needs to have the backing of the world should Palestine push farther. As of now, if the World didn't put pressure on Palestine to back off, they would be killing for Jerusalem right now, as many Hamas leaders have said they would. Without major power backing Israel, they are defenseless. A similar situation would be Taiwan and China, China is just waiting to pounce on Taiwan, but our navy fleet and economic relevence in China stops them.

Osama Bin Laden hates America because of the western culture that it stands for. The whole purpose of him attacking us in the first place is because he believed that we would back down to a fight should we face guerilla opposition. To support his point he mentioned two cases in which America backed out from a fight when faced with guerilla opposition, Vietnam and Somalia. American involvement is what keeps the Middle East from becoming more opposed to us. To say that terrorist organizations do not hate us for our western culture is not true. Many fundamentalist leaders have been put into power for the sole purpose of stopping the spread of Western Culture. Ayotollah Khomeini in Iran being one of them. Pulling out is just what Osama wants because that shows weakness on our part. Wars are not always won by weapons, but by intimidation. Thats the reason we lost the Vietnam war and the battle in Somalia.

To say that religious fundamentalism doesn't breed terrorism is both true and false. Its true that people don't kill because their religion tells them to. However, radical leaders such as Ayotollah Khomeini (sp) used religion as a method of recruiting fighters (many of them children). It is true that much of the hostility towards America from Iran was from our support of the Shah, but Ayotollah was far worse than the Shah. And how did he gain power? Through his teachings that if people gave their lives for his cause, they would gain passsage to heaven. He would arm children with the Koran and a "key to heaven" and would order them to march on the Iraq soldiers in the Iraq vs Iran war, their sole purpose to waste the Iraqi ammunition and push the line back. There is no way these children would have done such a thing if they did not believe that they would go to heaven after their death.

You cannot compare China, Japan, Mexico, and Canada to the US because they not only have very different cultures, but do not have the same world influence that the US does. Because we have such an influence in the world, of course groups are going to hate our ideologies.

Where did you get this? Some kind of handbook? You sound like a door to door salesman.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I don't think that it is going to end terrorism and stabilize the Middle East. I think that they will still hate us and find SOME reason to hate the United States. But I do think that it is time that we pull out of the Middle East, and other nations such as Germany and Japan for that matter. The Cold War is over and we could better use those troops here defending the United States than some other country.

 

[lazur]

Why? Terrorists don't attack because they "hate freedom" or want our women to cover their skin. They attack us because of our involvement with Israel.

So you're suggesting that we should just abandon our allies? Great plan.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The Isreali army is not well enough equipped to take on Palestine. Palestine as a region includes 3 countries (correct me if I'm wrong), and Israel alone is not capable of fighting them. That was the whole purpose of giving up the Gazza Strip, because Israel needs to have the backing of the world should Palestine push farther. As of now, if the World didn't put pressure on Palestine to back off, they would be killing for Jerusalem right now, as many Hamas leaders have said they would. Without major power backing Israel, they are defenseless. A similar situation would be Taiwan and China, China is just waiting to pounce on Taiwan, but our navy fleet and economic relevence in China stops them.

Palestine only consists of the Palestinian territories. And the Israeli Army is very well equiped enough to defend itself it has survived countless invasions from multiple nations at the same time since the day it was created. The Israeli government pulled out of the Gaza Stip and soon to be West Bank because they are sick of the violence and they know that the Palestinians won't back down. Not to get the world's backing. If that were the case they wouldn't be doing it unilaterally. In my opinion Jerusalem should become an international city that is independent of both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Because it is not only the holiest city in Judaism, it is also a holy city for Islam and Christianity.

As for your comment on China and Taiwan. I have to agree with you there.

Osama Bin Laden hates America because of the western culture that it stands for. The whole purpose of him attacking us in the first place is because he believed that we would back down to a fight should we face guerilla opposition. To support his point he mentioned two cases in which America backed out from a fight when faced with guerilla opposition, Vietnam and Somalia. American involvement is what keeps the Middle East from becoming more opposed to us. To say that terrorist organizations do not hate us for our western culture is not true. Many fundamentalist leaders have been put into power for the sole purpose of stopping the spread of Western Culture. Ayotollah Khomeini in Iran being one of them. Pulling out is just what Osama wants because that shows weakness on our part. Wars are not always won by weapons, but by intimidation. Thats the reason we lost the Vietnam war and the battle in Somalia.

Osama bin Laden and many other Arabs hate the United States and other Western nations because of how the West has taken advantage of the Middle East for years. The Europeans colonized the Middle East after World War I after promising that they would become independent against the Ottoman Turks. The United States and Europe helped to create Israel in what is in their eyes "Muslim soil." The United States remained in holy Muslim soil of Saudi Arabia after they pushed Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. That is why many Arabs hate the West and want absolutely nothing to do with it.

To say that religious fundamentalism doesn't breed terrorism is both true and false. Its true that people don't kill because their religion tells them to. However, radical leaders such as Ayotollah Khomeini (sp) used religion as a method of recruiting fighters (many of them children). It is true that much of the hostility towards America from Iran was from our support of the Shah, but Ayotollah was far worse than the Shah. And how did he gain power? Through his teachings that if people gave their lives for his cause, they would gain passsage to heaven. He would arm children with the Koran and a "key to heaven" and would order them to march on the Iraq soldiers in the Iraq vs Iran war, their sole purpose to waste the Iraqi ammunition and push the line back. There is no way these children would have done such a thing if they did not believe that they would go to heaven after their death.

It's not just children but adults to. Somehow people use religion to spread violence. In my mind, that sickens me.

You cannot compare China, Japan, Mexico, and Canada to the US because they not only have very different cultures, but do not have the same world influence that the US does. Because we have such an influence in the world, of course groups are going to hate our ideologies.

Canada basically has the same culture as the United States, they're practically America Jr. But China, the European Union, the United Nations, and the rest of the G8 nations do wield great amounts of influence around the world, just like the United States.

 

[Darthphere]

So you're suggesting that we should just abandon our allies? Great plan.

What has Israel done for us, other than give us Natalie Portman?

 

[sinewave]

because the terrorists are evil ****heads who must be stopped.

so, you're saying we invaded iraq because they're linked to al qaeda? you might want to do some research on that.

 

[lazur]

What has Israel done for us, other than give us Natalie Portman?

I see. So helping others is always conditional for you? They have to give something to you in order to deserve your help or support?

Real gift to humanity you are .

 

[Darthphere]

I see. So helping others is always conditional for you? They have to give something to you in order to deserve your help or support?

Real gift to humanity you are .

Pretty much. I dont know we put a lot of money and hardware into something, I expect something in return.


And you didnt answer my question.

 

[Milkman95]

No, we should not pull out entirely.