Age of Extinction Should they stop?

[def28]

No, when your movies become the prime example of everything wrong with blockbuster entertainment then these characters are being dragged through the mud.

But it's "everything wrong with blockbusters" in your opinion. It works with a huge audience. What standard are we going on? Audiences walk into this wanting and expecting a Michael Bay Transformer film and thats what they get.

No way, Bayformers stays relevent for 30 years. Sorry but the characters look like crumpled up foil and the movies are not iconic in any way. The only reason we're discussing Bayformers is because they just pooped out another movie.

Disagree with all of this, especially the bolded. This is one of the most recognizable and iconic franchises out there. People in 30 years are gonna remember this Bumble Bee not the G1 one.

My point is a crappy adaptation can be popular.

Sure, but it's all opinion though. When something is this popular 4 times they are doing something right with who they want to sell it too. In this case a majority of the world.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

But it's "everything wrong with blockbusters" in your opinion. It works with a huge audience. What standard are we going on? Audiences walk into this wanting and expecting a Michael Bay Transformer film and thats what they get.

Well we all know critics have labeled the Transformers franchise trash (which doesn't do the G1 fanbase any favors) and now they're continuing to drop commercially.

The 2nd TF movie made 400 million. The 4th will be lucky to make 250 million. That's a substantial drop in ticket sales. Americans are losing interest in droves.

In the mean time, the seventh X-men movie is nearing the commercial peak of the franchise domestically.

Disagree with all of this, especially the bolded. This is one of the most recognizable and iconic franchises out there. People in 30 years are gonna remember this Bumble Bee not the G1 one.

I'll give you Bumblebee to some degree but 99% of the Transformers are complete eye sores with nothing memorable or iconic about them.

Sure, but it's all opinion though. When something is this popular 4 times they are doing something right with who they want to sell it too. In this case a majority of the world.

Like I said before, domestically Bayformers has hit a new low. Worldwide numbers would be way down also without the freak of nature China market.

Popularity is only meaningful if you're popular for the right reasons. It's like a promiscuous freshman who all the male seniors know on a first name basis. It's not really an achievement if your popular for the wrong reasons.

The only people who should be thankful to Michael Bay are wealthy Hasbro and Paramount executives. The G1 fans don't get a penny so Transformers being a critically panned cash cow doesn't really help them in any way.

 

[def28]

Like I said before, domestically Bayformers has hit a new low. Worldwide numbers would be way down also without the freak of nature China market.

Popularity is only meaningful if you're popular for the right reasons. It's like a promiscuous freshman who all the male seniors know on a first name basis. It's not really an achievement if your popular for the wrong reasons.

The only people who should be thankful to Michael Bay are wealthy Hasbro and Paramount executives. The G1 fans don't get a penny so Transformers being a critically panned cash cow doesn't really help them in any way.

But domestically its still bringing in more people into the theatre this year then any other franchise. This isn't chump change. It could very well out perform DOTM ww total.

Popularity is meaningful in films for being liked for whatever reasons, doesn't matter one bit if there are people who don't like it as well. That's every film. A hater could say the same thing about X-Men, Twilight, Cap or whatever. That does not change their status of popularity or that there is plenty in the world that love them. When there is this large of an audience that speaks for itself. This is probably the only franchise where critics don't matter and neither do the haters...at all.

Transformers is literally one of the current most recognizable mainstream/ pop culture flicks of this generation. It's extremely iconic. I seriously have no idea how that can be argued. It's well recognized beyond belief.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

But domestically its still bringing in more people into the theatre this year then any other franchise. This isn't chump change. It could very well out perform DOTM ww total.

Popularity is meaningful in films for being liked for whatever reasons, doesn't matter one bit if there are people who don't like it as well. That's every film. A hater could say the same thing about X-Men, Twilight, Cap or whatever. That does not change their status of popularity or that there is plenty in the world that love them. When there is this large of an audience that speaks for itself. This is probably the only franchise where critics don't matter and neither do the haters...at all.

Transformers is literally one of the current most recognizable mainstream/ pop culture flicks of this generation. It's extremely iconic. I seriously have no idea how that can be argued. It's well recognized beyond belief.

Well-known does not automatically equal iconic.

Bay's Megatron is well-known but the design is not iconic in any way. Nor are the majority of the robots.

Critics and so-called haters do matter. They have something called standards. And typically when critics and fans agree on quality it benefits everyone.

The Dark Knight, The Empire Strikes Back, and Dawn of the Planet of the Apes are all shining examples.

Yes, Batman Forever, Phantom Menace, and Burton's Planet of the Apes made alot of money but at the end of the day the critics and haters were right. Those franchise were capable of more and lowering standards only cheats an audience who often don't realize they've been cheated.

 

[def28]

Well-known does not automatically equal iconic.

If Primes not then I don't know what is. Not every character in every franchise needs to be as recognizable. Agree to disagree.

Critics and so-called haters do matter. They have something called standards. And typically when critics and fans agree on quality it benefits everyone.

Here they do not. At all. Audiences didn't care during part 1,2,3 or 4.

Ultimately what matters the most is ones own opinion of said film. But the person (critic,hater or whatever) shouldn't neglect the huge fan base or pretend they don't exist. Again, too many people really enjoy these movies.

 

[Lord]

Transformers is like Rambo 2 and 3 back in the day, completely hated by the critics and silly action films centered around explosions, after some 30 years, it seems like the Rambo films are still well regarded by the public, i can see Bay's TF films ending up more or less that way, but the only iconic character is Optimus Prime, and he has been so even before these films started coming out, they just cemented him even more into the minds of the general public.

 

[jonathancrane]

They are not going to stop making the films. They're critically ravaged, yet they make a crapzillion dollars. The end for live-action Transformers will happen when they toy sales plummet and the reboot bombs. A reboot is inevitable if the next entry in this series fails...the studio heads think a reboot will be the solution...so, if it and the toy sails tank, goodbye Transformers.

But, let's face it: it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Lord]

I don't think the studio thinks a reboot will automaticaly fix their problems, the ones who think that are actualy us, the fans. TF 5 won't fail, and they will in the very least complete this new Trilogy, what happens after is anyone's guess, if the results at the box office go down, it's probably we'll se a Transformers/ G.I.Joe Crossover.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

If Primes not then I don't know what is. Not every character in every franchise needs to be as recognizable. Agree to disagree.



Here they do not. At all. Audiences didn't care during part 1,2,3 or 4.

Ultimately what matters the most is ones own opinion of said film. But the person (critic,hater or whatever) shouldn't neglect the huge fan base or pretend they don't exist. Again, too many people really enjoy these movies.

And there's plenty of people who don't and have good reason not to like them. Stop referring to people who don't like the movies as "bay haters" or just fan boys or critic don't have an opinion that should matter(They have a legitimate grip). You are no different than the rest of us, we just view these movies far different than you. ( and others)

To the thread I don't think they should stop nor are they going to BUT another person's vision would be really be refreshing. .

 

[Super User]

I think Bay should stop. I dont think TF movies should stop. In other words... reboot. I think the fact that this 4th movie "TF:AOE" flopped at the box office (compared to the previous 3) proves that the moviegoing public is getting tired of this sheit.
Its time to start over and do TF's right. That means the characters need to look as close to their original G1 versions as possible. The main thing is the face. The faces in the Bayformers are too complicated and hard to take in. There is little to no emotion showed in their faces.
I often wonder, does the money that General Motors give to TF/Bay for making what amounts to a huge/mega commercial for the latest Camero figure into the bottom line of the movie? Say GM give Bay and co. 5 million to use the latest Camero and show it in a good light... Does that end up getting counted as basically 5 million in ticket sales? Or at least into the overall bottom line. If this happens at all then its no wonder these movies "do so well" and they keep making more.

 

[def28]

And there's plenty of people who don't and have good reason not to like them. Stop referring to people who don't like the movies as "bay haters" or just fan boys or critic don't have an opinion that should matter(They have a legitimate grip). You are no different than the rest of us, we just view these movies far different than you. ( and others)

Have you not been reading my posts all the way through? Or the one you even quoted? I'm all about people having different opinions. That's been part of my main argument. Not everyone needs to have the same views of the film. People enjoy the film and they are allowed to. For some reason this seems to be the more difficult issue for people to accept. So Yes I'm defending that side here, and using critics, Bay haters and fanboys as examples cause that's who is more vocal with displaying their hate the most. The extremes.

I was not singling this board or MessiahDecoy who I respect as a poster, but the negativity of the net as a whole with the franchise. Which is extremely brutal and goes through the same circles. When posters share their opinion on the film and are not just trying to tear it down to insult the other side for enjoying the film maker or franchise I would not use those terms. There's a line when it just becomes ridiculous. Plenty of people enjoy it enough to make it one of the largest franchise out there, and there's people who don't like it. Making it also one of the most hated. Both are fine. But the overall success of this franchise with it's fanbase has stayed solid regardless of the strong negativity. That can not be denied.

IMO If you don't like it move on and don't see the next one Bay Directs. Or else your just supporting it and it will continue. Don't pet the dog that bit 4 times. It will just bite again. There's already a huge audience around the world that likes these films and are very willing to pay for the next.

 

[TheVileOne]

Time for someone else to direct this franchise.

 

[deadpoolkevin14]

the transformers movies are just fun movies to watch over the summer , so keep making them forget what the haters say, they just can't have fun

 

[Thundercrack85]

I have to say, I actually thought this movie was a real improvement.

If they had cut it by 45 minutes, and maybe gotten rid of one of the subplots, it might have been downright average.

 

[Thundercrack85]

the transformers movies are just fun movies to watch over the summer , so keep making them forget what the haters say, they just can't have fun

Or they actually give a **** about a franchise.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

Have you not been reading my posts all the way through? Or the one you even quoted? I'm all about people having different opinions. That's been part of my main argument. Not everyone needs to have the same views of the film. People enjoy the film and they are allowed to. For some reason this seems to be the more difficult issue for people to accept. So Yes I'm defending that side here, and using critics, Bay haters and fanboys as examples cause that's who is more vocal with displaying their hate the most. The extremes.

I was not singling this board or MessiahDecoy.

This is where your message gets confusing to me. 1. as you can see from my post count I do not travel these boards a lot to know anyone's post history; It's always a case by case scenario when I decide to reply to someone.

2. and what is confusing is you are not singling out this board for people having a problem with the movie and/or fans liking the movie, but you are on this board talking about thoese people, calling them "fanboy", and "m.bay haters"?

For someone like me I take that as you are singling out this board. If an issue like that exist take it to where that exist, because so far I see more fans that like the franchise having a problem with people who share their constructive criticism for not liking the movie (MessiahDecoy being an example)

If he has a right to his opinion and he's given constructive criticism (as you recognize) then why feel the need to address him? He like you is well with in his rights to come on here and say what he feels. Why does the term. "fanboy" and M.Bay haters and "critics don't know what they are talking about" have to be used?

and just as "haters" as you like to put it could ignore the movie and not go watch it, you all who love the movie could ignore any negative comment about the movie.

and I really hate when someone says "well don't go see the movie if you don't like his movies"

1. nothing has to do with M.Bay in my opinion, I could careless what movie he directs. if I like it I will say I like it, if I think he f'd it up and i'm going to say that. Most opinions I read on here have no personal agenda toward M.Bay as you guys like to make it out to be.

and 2. as I have said before, before I speak about something I will like to have full knowledge of what i'm talking about. I would be a "hater" if I disliked something and never experienced it, so for me personally. This is not me being bite by a dog 4 times and going back. it's me seeing if there has been any improvements from pervious efforts.

Can not make an education guess (or comments) without testing and having proper information.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

And the movie has made a billion dollars (for whatever reason) so I don't think it needs anyone trying to defend it, or it's director

I think the live action TFs fans won.

 

[SymbioteSeb]

Problem is, as long as it is making money. Paramount Studios will do anything to milk in cash. Yes, I know, its sad.

I want a reboot sooo bad to give the series some justice. Too bad that what you said is the truth

What I will do and what I think everyone has to do as TF fans is refuse to watch anymore Bayformers movies. Together, we CAN make a difference

 

[def28]

If he has a right to his opinion and he's given constructive criticism (as you recognize) then why feel the need to address him? He like you is well with in his rights to come on here and say what he feels. Why does the term. "fanboy" and M.Bay haters and "critics don't know what they are talking about" have to be used?

Cause I disagree and this is a discussion board. The same reason you felt the need to address me. Discussion is fine. Nothing was getting extremely heated or out of line.

I don't see why I can't use those terms. Like I said, Im using the extreme side of the negativity. That's why I mentioned Critic, hater or whatever early. It's the wide spectrum of negativity and how that effects the positive which was being discussed. And imo, after 4 films it's still on or near the top. So it's difficult for me to see the negative points of view on the film having the the overall most effect on the franchise or stopping it. It's not intended to be a personal insult directed at one or two specific posters.

T
1. nothing has to do with M.Bay in my opinion, I could careless what movie he directs. if I like it I will say I like it, if I think he f'd it up and i'm going to say that. Most opinions I read on here have no personal agenda toward M.Bay as you guys like to make it out to be.

I strongly disagree. His choices with the franchise are the main source of complaints. From the humor, the length of the film, the mind numbing action, the designs of the bots, lack of bot character etc. He has full say in everything you see on the screen. It's his film.

and I really hate when someone says "well don't go see the movie if you don't like his movies"

I hate alot of things, as I'm sure many people do. If I don't like or hate something more then one to 3 times I wont see or continue watching said series films or films by the film maker. That makes sense to me. If you think differently fine. All good. Both of us deserve to have an opinion, speak it and debate. I see a number of people who continue to really dislike every single film Bay comes out with, yet still pay for it and seemed surprised they do not like it. Personally, I don't like wasting money or supporting films/Directors I want to stop. That's just my point of view.

Sorry, but we just don't see eye to eye here.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

Cause I disagree and this is a discussion board. The same reason you felt the need to address me. Discussion is fine. Nothing was getting extremely heated or out of line. .

this at all was not the point I was trying to make with you. You seem to have more of an issue with people who do not like the film, as oppose to people who don't like the film having an issue with the lovers of the film. I go up and down this board and I seen more people who are a fan of the film seeking the need to defend it all the time, why?

You like it good, nobody said you couldn't, it made tons of money that seems to be the main excuse people use for the succees of these films, so if all those factors are there why still have a "wild hair" across your ass (so to speak) about people bashing the film, not because it's a discussion board or not cause you are getting out of hand(you aren't in anyway)...it's just something I observe the TFs lovers on this board to a lot of...

I don't see why I can't use those terms. Like I said, Im using the extreme side of the negativity. That's why I mentioned Critic, hater or whatever early. It's the wide spectrum of negativity and how that effects the positive which was being discussed. And imo, after 4 films it's still on or near the top. So it's difficult for me to see the negative points of view on the film having the the overall most effect on the franchise or stopping it. It's not intended to be a personal insult directed at one or two specific posters.

No one said you can't,...I mean not trying to go psycho analyst on you, you can use whatever terms you like...simple statement, but because someone doesn't like the film they don't have to be a "hater" "fanboy" or hater of M.bay, point blank. that's the only point I really wanted to make with you using those "terms" and critics whether you don't like them critiquing your favorite movie or not, opinion matters just as much as yours.

I strongly disagree. His choices with the franchise are the main source of complaints. From the humor, the length of the film, the mind numbing action, the designs of the bots, lack of bot character etc. He has full say in everything you see on the screen. It's his film. .

with some I agree they dislike because of him, but there are plenty others not liking it not because it's him because it's a poor representation on what we know of the TFs to be and created as.

you can't argue the robots were at one point poorly design, you cant argue at one point the camera angles were bad, at one point the jokes were poor, the robots lack personalities, the running time was a problem, plot etc..you cant argue that stuff because they are legitimate grips and something these movies have improved on (some what)...

and how can anyone be a "hater" if the stuff that's been said, has been changed by the director. obviously it was a problem right??


and about hating something and going back to see it, I can only offer my own personal opinion. If i'm going to comment on something, I will like to make sure I have full knowledge of it. I myself wanted to see if there were any improvements, and there were, still at the end of the day my opinion is, I feel another director and team of writers could put together a better coherent film.

and me replying to you was never to get to you agree with me, I replied to you because I think the TF lovers, have too much of a problem with people who don't like the film.

 

[def28]

this at all was not the point I was trying to make with you. You seem to have more of an issue with people who do not like the film, as oppose to people who don't like the film having an issue with the lovers of the film. I go up and down this board and I seen more people who are a fan of the film seeking the need to defend it all the time, why?

For this specific thread or in general? This thread is asking "should they stop?", so of course it's gonna have defending. And really, it's not even 3 pages...

You like it good, nobody said you couldn't, it made tons of money that seems to be the main excuse people use for the succees of these films, so if all those factors are there why still have a "wild hair" across your ass (so to speak) about people bashing the film, not because it's a discussion board or not cause you are getting out of hand(you aren't in anyway)...it's just something I observe the TFs lovers on this board to a lot of...

This film aint my Raiders or Back To The Future. It aint even on my top ten this year. I think these flicks are insane visual fun and personally find the mass appeal and hate interesting. I don't even think I mentioned if I even enjoyed the flick in this thread.

As for the other part here. Again I strongly disagree. Types of threads like "Transformers Sucks", and "Michael Bay ruined Transformers", there's quite a few on here. It gets brought up alot. You may see it as mostly the TF fans being defending in this one. But this series is easily the most bashed boards on here. This year I think plenty of SHH members skipped out. There were barely 3 threads in here for awhile. But I guarantee there is a Transformers 4s gonna suck thread somewhere in here.

No one said you can't,...I mean not trying to go psycho analyst on you, you can use whatever terms you like...simple statement, but because someone doesn't like the film they don't have to be a "hater" "fanboy" or hater of M.bay, point blank. that's the only point I really wanted to make with you using those "terms" and critics whether you don't like them critiquing your favorite movie or not, opinion matters just as much as yours.

Just to clarify again, I said what matters the most is ones opinion. You quoted me saying that. I don't think I have to change anyones mind about their personal feelings on the flick, though I see nothing wrong with debating it. I also used more then a few terms and even used Transformers Fans on the previous page. Might have said that a bit unfairly, cause I do think it sucks some fans don't think its good. There's a few franchises I think that way about too. But again, I'm looking at the huge success compared to the negative not so much my individual opinion of the film or that everyone is in the same hater cat.

On the topic of this specific board and what I was replying to, I just don't see the negatives having much effect on this franchise Worldwide. That was my main point. There are people on here who disliked this one but enjoyed ROTF. I recognize that. The main question I'm arguing is if the strong negative vibes makes a difference in the franchise coming to hault. Do they really matter in it's success? Do Critics and negative fans? I've seen a majority of the same complaints and nothing has stopped for three sequels, it actually has made the most on the past 2. So with that it automatically tells me no, they really don't matter for the franchise to keep going. There's a bigger audience who keeps going and buying blu rays. Those numbers are big and always have been. It shows support. Same with any other franchise with mass appeal yet hate. I don't like Twilight, but I know very well there's a huge audience for it that enjoys it. I think Popularity and success do mean alot.

The always insanely low critic scores and haters just never really had an effect on the worldwide box office through the series or stopped it, pretty sure the next one could be a 1% RT and it would still reach a billion. Maybe fatigue would finnaly set in, who knows. Judging by these numbers the WW would not be too far imo.

 

[ciscostudent561]

Should they stop?

lol yeah
DUH

 

[Primal Slayer]

They shouldn't stop. They should just reboot or hand the franchise over to someone else who can improve upon it.

 

[MistaBinks]

I have only seen the first one but it wasnt that great and the ones after were worst

How do you know the ones after were worse?

 

[Lord]

They should keep making these successful movies, but they should give it to somebody other than Michael Bay, he can keep control like he did for TMNT and plan the rest of the story, but it would be welcoming to see a new Director more focused on the characters giving it a try.

Also, please don't make another City final battle, every film is doing this now, it's already old for the franchise, let alone blockbuster action films, so a new location would be welcome.