Sequels Singer Approached For X4?

[Silvermoth]

But the point is, Yes theres was plenty of action but it wasn't well weaved together. It was stupid. Marching from one action scene to the next with no story or pathos. Thats why everyone hates X3 and Ratner (as well as the terrible dialogue which must never ever be that bad in another X-men film or comic ever)

Its also why Singer's direction is the preferred X-men way

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Interesting points. But X3's focus was different.

Some great action moments:
1) Dark Phoenix at the house and at Alcatraz
2) Storm at the house, descending at Alcatraz, and zapping Callisto
3) Beast swinging on the post into the mutants
4) Magneto attacking truck convoy and moving bridge
5) Angel flying free
6) Kitty Pryde at Alcatraz, and Juggernaut there too

The moments you mention above are also great. I agree Colossus seemed to have a greater 'moment' in X2, as did Pyro, because those scenes were isolated moments of character power displays, which is what Bryan tends to do. He creates slow, moody stories with 'bursts' of character action - maybe it stands out more that way because everything before it and after it was different and slower?

X1 and X2 had great power moments also. The focus in X3 shifted to different mutants - Beast, Angel, Dark Phoenix, Kitty, Juggernaut - who hadn't been given character moments in previous movies. The story moved faster around the character power displays, so the power displays blended more into the movie, rather than standing out as much as Bryan's style makes them do.

X3 does have some good action moments, but all of them, in my opinion, don't reach the level of the power display Bryan showed in his movies.

Sure, Dark Phoenix is stunning (though I can't get over the fact that we didn't get a Phoenix Rising scene. It was obvious, it was a guarantee of a wonderful piece, it was supposed to be one of the best, most artistic displays of power of the trilogy, but it was a let down, a huge one, a terrible one). The GG Bridge is awesome. But that's pretty much it. Beast kicking those soldiers still doesn't compare to the greatness that was Nightcrawler. Kitty's chase scene is smart on the beginning, and even funny and creative. It almost resembles the way Singer would do an action scene. Although they are beautiful, and bring a tough competition if we had to choose the best, I still think that Bryan, in the mix of everything, nailed the powers better and more beautifully, elegantly.

Ratner, IMO, tends to make their powers seem ordinary, in your words "blending more with the movie", which is something that takes out the superhero feel (imo). I prefer the bursts, the moody display, the fact that the powers are really an extension of their feelings, mostly their anger. The awesome displays interlaced with character moments than to see their powers treated as "common". Reaching this part, we fall in opinion matter. But what I wanted to show is that you can't neglect that, like you or not, prefer you Ratner or Singer, the latter nailed, beautifully, most of the powers, if not all. So we can't say that "Singer nailed the drama, Ratner the action". Singer nailed both, not perfectly, true, but he nailed, most times (and now I fall in opinion again) it better than Ratner, because this one didn't nail the emotion, although having pretty awesome action displays (something that Bryan also hit).

 

[X-Maniac]

X3 does have some good action moments, but all of them, in my opinion, don't reach the level of the power display Bryan showed in his movies.

Sure, Dark Phoenix is stunning (though I can't get over the fact that we didn't get a Phoenix Rising scene. It was obvious, it was a guarantee of a wonderful piece, it was supposed to be one of the best, most artistic displays of power of the trilogy, but it was a let down, a huge one, a terrible one). The GG Bridge is awesome. But that's pretty much it. Beast kicking those soldiers still doesn't compare to the greatness that was Nightcrawler. Kitty's chase scene is smart on the beginning, and even funny and creative. It almost resembles the way Singer would do an action scene. Although they are beautiful, and bring a tough competition if we had to choose the best, I still think that Bryan, in the mix of everything, nailed the powers better and more beautifully, elegantly.

Ratner, IMO, tends to make their powers seem ordinary, in your words "blending more with the movie", which is something that takes out the superhero feel (imo). I prefer the bursts, the moody display, the fact that the powers are really an extension of their feelings, mostly their anger. The awesome displays interlaced with character moments than to see their powers treated as "common". Reaching this part, we fall in opinion matter. But what I wanted to show is that you can't neglect that, like you or not, prefer you Ratner or Singer, the latter nailed, beautifully, most of the powers, if not all. So we can't say that "Singer nailed the drama, Ratner the action". Singer nailed both, not perfectly, true, but he nailed, most times (and now I fall in opinion again) it better than Ratner, because this one didn't nail the emotion, although having pretty awesome action displays (something that Bryan also hit).

You present a good argument. I think really it was the way X3 was made that makes some of the action scenes stand out less - there were lots of secondary and cameo characters, and some characters did not have enough obvious substance, or they were not given solo moments to shine. The Nightcrawler scene stands out because he is the only mutant in it, like the Storm scene at the end of X1 stands out because she is the only mutant using her powers (Toad isn't really using his powers there).

I do think X1 and X2 had better opening scenes than X3 and, yes, that Bryan has a 'smarter' approach to storytelling and overall a more elegant approach to action. If only he would give Storm some depth, like an origin or show her watering her garden...

But do you think Bryan would come back for another X-movie?

 

[flavio_lebeau]

But do you think Bryan would come back for another X-movie?

No. As much as I would get happy, as much as I pray for that to happen, I see it's impossible. EVEN IF Fox searched him for that (which i'm still in doubt, after everything I saw this studio doing. After all the bad decisions they made, the politics getting in front of storytelling, I hardly doubt they would be so honest and humble to search Bryan, specially giving the traumatic conditions in which he left), I don't think he would accept it. First because there is a chance of "Superman 2" going well and they making a "Superman 3" (and he openly says he prefers Supes to x-babes). Second, because of what I said. Bryan seems to be very...hmmm not the kind of guy who would easily come back (unless he sees in it an opportunity to say "see, dumbasses? I'm great and wonderful and you should give me the salary I wanted for X3" at Fox). Saying he would come back is something, doing it is another, much different, specially in Hollywood, land of the egos.

But, deep inside, I hope I am terribly wrong, and that he came back.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Good lord. You're complaining that Ratner made two Wolverine movies?

X3 WAS MUCH MORE A WOLVERINE FLICK THAN THE OTHER TWO.

completley wrong

the first two movies would not have a plot if wolverine where not in them, if X3 didn't have wolverine both storylines pheonix and the cure would remain intact

X3 was not half the wolverine movie X1 and X2 where

 

[BMM]

Both X-Men and X2's plots remain intact without Wolverine. No one requires anything of him in X-Men. Regardless of Wolverine's involvement, Magneto is in need of Rogue. Likewise, in X2, Stryker is in need of Xavier . . . Wolverine is undoubtedly a key player in both of those movies, but ultimately none of the plots require his involvement anymore than his being the savior in The Last Stand.

 

[Majik1387]

Both X-Men and X2's plots remain intact without Wolverine. No one requires anything of him in X-Men. Regardless of Wolverine's involvement, Magneto is in need of Rogue. Likewise, in X2, Stryker is in need of Xavier . . . Wolverine is undoubtedly a key player in both of those movies, but ultimately none of the plots require his involvement anymore than his being the savior in The Last Stand.

Exactly. I wish people would understand this instead of keeping on thinking the first 2 movies were all about Wolverine.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Really, then why do we see the movie through the eyes of Wolverine? In fact, Wolverine is the X-men in the first movie. He is the emotional arrow of the movie.

Who gets Rogue to stay at the mansion? Not Xavier, not Bobby, not Ororo, who are the three who attempt to do it, but it's Wolverine. He is the one who successfully rescues her thrice. In Laughin City, the train station, and atop the Statue of Liberty. Sure the last one was a measly attempt at a team effort, and the only one by the way, but utlimatly it's Wolverine who goes and gets her. It's Wolverine with the secondary plot that has more screentime devoted to it. The mysterious past and mysterious metal in his body. Oh yea, then there's the other sub plot of the love triangle, that's not much of a triangle as much as it is Scott being a ball n chain.

X2 doesn't really diviate from that formula. Sure Stryker has it in for Xavier and all mutants, but then he meets Wolverine...

X2 didn't have to be like that had they just stuck to the FoH, or God Loves. A big way to downplay Wolverine's importance in the film would have been to take out Yuriko's worthless part.

 

[Majik1387]

Really, then why do we see the movie through the eyes of Wolverine? In fact, Wolverine is the X-men in the first movie. He is the emotional arrow of the movie.

The first two have been told through the eyes of other characters besides Wolvie. We're introduced to the X-Men through the eyes of Wolvie, I'll give you that but as a whole, the first two don't always focus on him.

Who gets Rogue to stay at the mansion? Not Xavier, not Bobby, not Ororo, who are the three who attempt to do it, but it's Wolverine. He is the one who successfully rescues her thrice. In Laughin City, the train station, and atop the Statue of Liberty. Sure the last one was a measly attempt at a team effort, and the only one by the way, but utlimatly it's Wolverine who goes and gets her. It's Wolverine with the secondary plot that has more screentime devoted to it. The mysterious past and mysterious metal in his body. Oh yea, then there's the other sub plot of the love triangle, that's not much of a triangle as much as it is Scott being a ball n chain.

Wolvie was able to get Rogue to stay because they formed a bond before even getting to the X-Mansion. He didn't save her at the train station, I don't know what you were watching. And at the statue of Liberty, the X-Men as a team saved Rogue; And the reason Wolvie was the one that went up towards magneto is because he's really the only physical fighter compared to Cyclops, Jean and Storm.

X2 doesn't really diviate from that formula. Sure Stryker has it in for Xavier and all mutants, but then he meets Wolverine...

Yeah, but it's still not a Wolverine centered story.

X2 didn't have to be like that had they just stuck to the FoH, or God Loves. A big way to downplay Wolverine's importance in the film would have been to take out Yuriko's worthless part.

I didn't think it was any more worthless than her wanting revenge for her father's plans being stolen and I'm happy they didn't make her some cyborg.

 

[Goddessreicho]

The first two have been told through the eyes of other characters besides Wolvie. We're introduced to the X-Men through the eyes of Wolvie, I'll give you that but as a whole, the first two don't always focus on him.

They do focus on him. Watch it again. Wolverine is the center link of the films. Hell it should be Xavier.

Wolvie was able to get Rogue to stay because they formed a bond before even getting to the X-Mansion. He didn't save her at the train station, I don't know what you were watching. And at the statue of Liberty, the X-Men as a team saved Rogue; And the reason Wolvie was the one that went up towards magneto is because he's really the only physical fighter compared to Cyclops, Jean and Storm.

I was watching the part when he walked up to her while she was waiting for the train to leave. He gave her the "Give the X-Geeks on more chance speel". Then she reluctantly said yes, so he saved her from herself pretty much. Do you remember the days when Cyclops was a melee-fighter. He could have been the one at the top of the Statue. So yea, more worthless Wolverine moments.

I didn't think it was any more worthless than her wanting revenge for her father's plans being stolen and I'm happy they didn't make her some cyborg.

Are you sure you were watching X2? Yea, Styker did say that her father invented it, but Yuriko had one line. "What are you doing here?" and that was to "the janitor." We saw some clenched fist from her during Mag's prison scene, but THAT'S IT. Those are 616 cannon straws that your grasping for that should have been in Singer's "masterpeice." Yuriko showed no emotion and had nothing to very little to do with a plot from X2.

The only plot that she was really related to with a purpose was...Wolverine's. Yea, that's my point.

 

[Majik1387]

They do focus on him. Watch it again. Wolverine is the center link of the films. Hell it should be Xavier.

I didn't say they didn't focus on him, I said they don't always focus on him.

I was watching the part when he walked up to her while she was waiting for the train to leave. He gave her the "Give the X-Geeks on more chance speel". Then she reluctantly said yes, so he saved her from herself pretty much.

Just like people with a bond with each other do for each other.

Do you remember the days when Cyclops was a melee-fighter? He could have been the one at the top of the Statue. So yea, more worthless Wolverine moments. .

I do. I always use him in any Marvel vs. Capcom game.
Cyclops didn't go up because he had to blast it from a distance in case plan A didn't work. Even if he went up and beat up Magneto, then what? Blow the machine up along with Rogue and himself?

Are you sure you were watching X2? Yea, Styker did say that her father invented it, but Yuriko had one line. "What are you doing here?" and that was to "the janitor." We saw some clenched fist from her during Mag's prison scene, but THAT'S IT.

You're missing the moment where after Wolvie stabs he with the adamantium needles, once she gets out of mind control, there is obviously something more to her.

Those are 616 cannon straws that your grasping for that should have been in Singer's "masterpeice."

I'm not grasping at anything, that was her story from the comics. I don't read much comics outside the 616 canon, are there any other stories with her that I missed?

Yuriko showed no emotion and had nothing to very little to do with a plot from X2.

She did, and it was small but it was something.

The only plot that she was really related to with a purpose was...Wolverine's. Yea, that's my point.

As in the comics.

 

[Goddessreicho]

^--- You Singer fans crack me up. There's a fine line between subtly and wishing and hoping.

When Yuriko gets stabbed its not, "you bastard that's my father's metal, and our previous relationship where you abandoned me you just screwed up again!"... it's more along the lines of "ugg, you stabbed me". That's it. You want to see more than what's there.

Kinda like how Singer fans really really want the scene where Storm gets chucked down an elevator shaft and her rising up have something to do with her clausterphobia. HA. When she comes out she's pissed that she got thrown down an elevator shaft not paralized with fear like she should have been.

Yuriko and Wolverine were strangers, she never once showed how much she hated him. That's a whole different story. Is it Wolverine's story, yes. But it wasn't touched upon because Wolverine had a moral lesson to learn about "not going about it alone" and "team something or another". That's right, an actual storyline that SOPOSED to be Wolverine's got lost in the mix because he was to busy in another one.

More of that half full/ half empty glass stuff I was talking about in another thread. If the writers couldn't tell a complete story, then they shouldn't have introduced the characters.

 

[Majik1387]

^--- You Singer fans crack me up. There's a fine line between subtly and wishing and hoping.

I'm not some Singer fan who thinks everything he did was perfect, just so you know.

When Yuriko gets stabbed its not, "you bastard that's my father's metal, and our previous relationship where you abandoned me you just screwed up again!"... it's more along the lines of "ugg, you stabbed me". That's it. You want to see more than what's there.

Oh I agree with that, but I do think there was more to it than "ugg, you stabbed me"

Kinda like how Singer fans really really want the scene where Storm gets chucked down an elevator shaft and her rising up have something to do with her clausterphobia. HA. When she comes out she's pissed that she got thrown down an elevator shaft not paralized with fear like she should have been.

I agree. I would have liked to see fear but I didn't get it.

Yuriko and Wolverine were strangers, she never once showed how much she hated him. That's a whole different story. Is it Wolverine's story, yes. But it wasn't touched upon because Wolverine had a moral lesson to learn about "not going about it alone" and "team something or another". That's right, an actual storyline that SOPOSED to be Wolverine's got lost in the mix because he was to busy in another one.

It worked for me, and many other fans.

More of that half full/ half empty glass stuff I was talking about in another thread. If the writers couldn't tell a complete story, then they shouldn't have introduced the characters.

You mean like in X-3? Introducing all those characters just to kill them?

 

[X-Maniac]

I agree with Goddessreicho.

While Singer tells stories in a better way than Ratner, Singer is not a god who has done perfect things with the X-Men. With some characters, Bryan Singer has a lot to learn.

Now that Wolverine has his own movie as well as a central role in all three X-movies, it's time for other characters to be fleshed out. If Singer can create such a good back story for Wolverine (even with the Stryker add-on), then he can do the same for other characters if he researches them more.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

I'm a Singer fan, but I know he's not a God and that his movies aren't perfect. What I do think is, compared to Ratner, his movies are better in almost every aspect, if not every aspect. His movies approach more what I ever wanted in an X-men movie.

Sure, he forgot Storm, one of my favorite characters. But the fact that Storm has more to do in X3 still doesn't make her near the Storm the fans wanted, except for the wig. So, it's Singer's problem, but not only Singer's problem. Actually, now that I watch the trilogy, X1 Storm is the closest of Storm I thought we got, and X1 was done by Singer. Give her the X3 wig and she would look even closer.

Sure, he didn't give development to Sabretooth, to Toad, To Yuriko. But I don't think it hurts the story. Ratner didn't give development to Cain, to Callisto (he didn't even give her a name), to Psylocke. But to me, it doesn't hurt the story. I'm open enough to know that, unless they choose only characters like Arclight and Quills, we will NEVER, never get all the characters with development, simply because it's impossble to do so in a movie. Some characters HAVE to be the center, otherwise it becomes a mess in which the audience doesn't care about anyone.

Wolverine is center. The obvious choice. If you ask anyone about X-men, it's Logan and Storm. So nothing more natural. He's central to the plots of X1 and X2, but he's center (to the point of becoming Cyclops, who SHOULD be the center) in X3 too. If he's taken out of any of these films, they lose a lot. First because Hugh really plays Logan in a way that even the non fans applaud. He IS Wolverine, even when the script doesn't help. Second, because, yeah, he WAS made the center. But I don't complain about that: if I was an executive with an X-men movie in my hands, I'd focus on him too. Maybe not that much, but I would, I'd have to.

What I can't swallow is to say that X3 is less a Wolverine movie than X1 and 2. HUH? Think about it! It WASN'T supposed to be Wolverine centered, true, but the movie was made in a way to make him front and center. They forced him to be the center (even changing scenes twice so that Iceman didn't take the focus out of him), when he shouldn't. To me, X3 is the only movie in which he couldn't be too much centered, because it wasn't his time to be, it was Scott's. But they prefered to change his entire personlaity, giving Scott's to him, than to take him out of the spotlight.

 

[04nbod]

what i have a problem with in X1 and X2 is that the storylines were decided around wolverine in order to make him the central character . characters like rogue and xavier were there for logic in storytelling but neither have been constistently central like wolverine. i long for day he's behind cyclops in an x men movie poster like he should be

 

[Rac]

Weren't Wolverine "central" character in X1 scripts before Singer came aboard? I've read pages from here and there of some old X1 scripts and Wolverine is pretty much there too. And also a horrible Teletubbie ending which Singer did luckily change.

 

[Silvermoth]

I didn't mind the overuse of Wolverine in the first two films. It was done tastefully, and there was some developement in the other characters. I had more of a problem with Logan suddenly becoming the leader type in X3 which is completely against what he stands for and also for his scene where he survives the phoenix but Charles cannot. That annoyed me.

Singer did stay true to the idea and the meaning of the characters and the story of the X-men. Ratner just made his own thing which to me seems really dumb and cliched. I think we all know who the better director is and who was better for the X-men

 

[BMM]

. . . i long for day he's behind cyclops in an x men movie poster like he should be

I'm afraid you long for days that passed a very long time ago. I found this the other day and thought it was interesting. Look who is front and center in the Animated Series poster . . . Cyclops is pushed aside, falling behind Wolverine, and is even put in a position that casts him as being shorter in stature to Wolverine.

 

[aroundthefur33]

singer would be cool, but i think i would like to see him, make superman more a dead beat dad...

 

[04nbod]

how long will marvel keep feeding us this trash until they realise wolverine is out of style and now there are more popular characters.
best thing about that poster- rogue and the thunder psychic eminations fron xaviers head-realism be damnedt:

 

[RagingTempest]

Why not have Bryan and Brett direct an X-men movie together. Bryan concentrates on the dialogue, plot, and character development while Brett handles all the action.

 

[Silvermoth]

Why not have Bryan and Brett direct an X-men movie together. Bryan concentrates on the dialogue, plot, and character development while Brett handles all the action.

Because they both have contrasting views and opinions and will want to be the top cohuna. Besides, why do we need Ratner back? Even for the action. He would just fill the movie with embarrasing dialogue

 

[conan69]

Bryan has Superman Returns and Logans Run on his calendar. When he gonna come up with the time for a Xmen movie or spinoff?

It would take FOX REALLLLY backing off and letting a director do his vision to even get me to consider another Xmen film. Itll be hard for me to accept a film without Cyclops. Its that simple. Rogue is cured. I have ZERO interest in Gambit, Bishop,Cable and the likes. Beast, Angel, Colossus,Iceman, Thunderbird, Havok, Kitty - more Storm and Yay! Wolverine I dont know, I might be interested but would prefer if they just left it alone and f#$&ing it up so badly.

 

[ljr]

The fact I have only watched x3 once(and that was at the cinema),other than when I listened to the comentary,and have seen the others loads of times-should speak for itself how I feel about x3.I thought it was garbage,yes we had excellent effects and the action was more exciting,but they took what could have been a great storyline and butched it and they did they same to every character except for wolvy,mags and possibly beast.
They disregarded what had happened in the previous movies and went their own way,which was a mistake,just because you throw millions at a movie and have more bangs per buck that does not excuse lack of a good storyline and no character development which the first two have.So I say yes have x4 and undo some of the rubbish they forced on us in x3,BUT NEVER LET RATNER NEAR ANOTHER X-MEN MOVIE EVER.