Singer nay or yah

[The Original Bamfer]

Nope.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Hmm, yes. I definitely wish Fox had locked up Singer for X3 right after X2.

I definitely don't feel X3 is the best of the trilogy, I definitely don't believe Ratner captured the spirit of X-Men. Yes, he upped the action department, yes he made it flashier, but big explosions and huge visuals doesn't automatically make a great movie.

The most important aspect is the storytelling. NOW had Singer and Ratner worked on X3 together? Then it would've been the trilogy of the century(IMO).

Singer could've concentrated on the character development, the acting, atmosphere, and certain visuals. Ratner could've added in the action, visuals, and so on. I definitely believe that would've made people happy.

But yes, I watched X3 and immediately felt, "I wish Singer would've done this one."

But to me it seemed like those who don't want Singer wanted nothing but action anyways. So, you got what you want really. You have a film with nothing but action and visuals, no character development, no heart, and no story that makes you care about these characters or their fates really.

So definitely, I will always wonder what Singer would've done with the Phoenix Saga. I do not, however, know if upset is the right word for the way my feelings are at this moment. Usually one could perceive the notion that some feel robbed, duped, and indifferent really.

More or less I fall in the line of feeling robbed and bitter about the whole thing.

 

[ntcrawler]

Yah for Singer. At least the X films would be consistent with each other, plotwise and stylewise, and he certainly wouldn't make a third installment that's worse than the first two.

 

[ntcrawler]

But to me it seemed like those who don't want Singer wanted nothing but action anyways. So, you got what you want really. You have a film with nothing but action and visuals, no character development, no heart, and no story that makes you care about these characters or their fates really.

That's an interesting point. The less you care about a character, the less they are developed, the less you feel attached to them, the easier it is to kill them off and not care that they're dead. The easier it is to detach yourself from a film and the events portrayed, the easier it is to accept whatever the end result is. But if you actually care about the characters and don't consider them disposeable, then it becomes very hard to accept their fate or deaths, especially if those deaths were pointless or could have been prevented.

More or less I fall in the line of feeling robbed and bitter about the whole thing.

Maybe some day these questions will be answered. One can only hope.

 

[jrd550]

yes. SR wasn't great, but it was better than X3. X# looked like it was edited by a 13 year old.

 

[Mdizzle]

Ntcrawler, exactly. And the bit about more action, that's what I've been saying, the movie seemed almost on fast-forward...cut to the chase, let's get down to business. The scene I can think of at the top of my head is the "showdown" between Bobby and Pyro...hahha.

Yeah I was definitely surprised at the multiple deaths and how expendable everyone seemed to be.

 

[x-fan]

That's an interesting point. The less you care about a character, the less they are developed, the less you feel attached to them, the easier it is to kill them off and not care that they're dead. The easier it is to detach yourself from a film and the events portrayed, the easier it is to accept whatever the end result is. But if you actually care about the characters and don't consider them disposeable, then it becomes very hard to accept their fate or deaths, especially if those deaths were pointless or could have been prevented.



Maybe some day these questions will be answered. One can only hope.

its a shame that singer ignored everyone else too and fleshed out only wolverine and rogue then wolverine and nighty oh and mags everyone else was background so he sucked too, give me anyone else

 

[Mdizzle]

Well I think you need a base to build on...would be difficult to have everyone super developed and expanded upon...I think fans would be just as upset if say it was Cyke and someone else under the main focus...and Wolvie got gyped or something. Movies are hard to do since the focus has to go somewhere, and the movie concept will inevitably be completely different from a novel or comic in the way it's done. A lot of characters were underplayed by even Singer's directing...Colossus, for example, but once again it's difficult to expand on a multitude of characters at once and still have a good steady plot that is focused and relevant. Would have enjoyed seeing even Jubes, but it was a choice Singer made of certain characters over others. I can see how Rogue would be a better choice as opposed to Jubes, her character could tie in relatively better to other story lines. I dunno, it's debatable.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I like Superman Returns, I thought it was really well made.

And although I liked X-Men: The Last Stand better, I think that Bryan Singer would have given us an even better 3rd movie.

However, I'm torn, because what we got was because Bryan left, and I did like a lot of the plot and events that happened with X-Men: The Last Stand, things I dunno that we would have gotten under Bryan, so I dunno.

 

[Mdizzle]

Singer makes a good movie. With X3 I was kind of like, ok...too much action but not enough force riding behind it. I didn't feel the impact of the final battle, like too much sex and no foreplay. Also the impact of the cure...did anyone really feel it other than Rogue and maybe Angel? Beast, who should have prolly seeing his obvious physical differences, should have been emphasized more. I think Singer would have taken more time to play up these details.

 

[ntcrawler]

yes. SR wasn't great, but it was better than X3. X# looked like it was edited by a 13 year old.

The main reason why I found SR easier to digest despite some of its flaws was mainly because at the end 1/2 the cast wasn't dead, and the story was such that you knew there would be more, unlike X3 which purposely ran everything into a dead end. That's what really burned me up. Course
I realize it's not something I can blame the directors on, but ultimately it's their job to bring the story to life, so they have to bear some responsibilty for the final product too.

 

[ntcrawler]

its a shame that singer ignored everyone else too and fleshed out only wolverine and rogue then wolverine and nighty oh and mags everyone else was background so he sucked too, give me anyone else

Who else would you want? So far we heard nominations for Raimi, Jackson, and Nolan. How about Cameroon from his pre-Titanic days? How about Jean-Jacques Annaud? He did Enemy at the Gates. I think he did a good job balancing between char development, quiet, tender emotional scenes, energetic battle sequences and gore? Or how about Russell Mulcahy? he gave us Highlander. Also someone who can do battle and action and balance it out with character development, symbolism, and more quiet and tender moments? Or as LastSunrise1981 suggested, Ridley Scott. Now there's a man who can do sci fi, action, darkness, as well as character development.

 

[Mdizzle]

The main reason why I found SR easier to digest despite some of its flaws was mainly because at the end 1/2 the cast wasn't dead, and the story was such that you knew there would be more, unlike X3 which purposely ran everything into a dead end. That's what really burned me up.

Yeah that's really true. Too many characters in X3 were either killed by Jean in the end, or presumed dead. Bring 'em in, introduce them all, then quickly dispose of them.

 

[ntcrawler]

However, I'm torn, because what we got was because Bryan left, and I did like a lot of the plot and events that happened with X-Men: The Last Stand, things I dunno that we would have gotten under Bryan, so I dunno.

I don't think that Bryan's version would be worse than what we got from Ratner. It may have been different, but I doubt it would be anything so bad that people would actually get sick or something.

Personally I feel the main difference if Singer wrote up X3 besides changes in how the Phoenix element was treated would be taking out the Cure storyline altogether. In X1 and X2 he made references that there really was no quick, easy way to "cure" a mutation. That there is no instant remedy to stop being a mutant, just like there is no "remedy" for being black or asian, or no instant remedy for being fat (no substitute for dieting and hard work). Acceptance, tolerance, working hard at controlling your gifts and developing them was the answer I believe Singer was trying to promote through his stories in X1 and X2, because there wasnt' supposed to be an easy way out, as Rogue had thought in X1 in that extra classroom scene with Storm, or when Stryker thought Xavier could cure his son of his mutation.

 

[Mdizzle]

^^ or so bad that people would end up laughing at all the "dramatic" parts, which was actually what happened when I went to go see it. lol

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Singer makes a good movie. With X3 I was kind of like, ok...too much action but not enough force riding behind it. I didn't feel the impact of the final battle, like too much sex and no foreplay. Also the impact of the cure...did anyone really feel it other than Rogue and maybe Angel? Beast, who should have prolly seeing his obvious physical differences, should have been emphasized more. I think Singer would have taken more time to play up these details.

That's a good point, and what would have been the biggest win / win situation for me would have been for Bryan Singer to work with Kinberg & Penn's script.

I like the cure plot, and many of the occurances in this film. And the ones that I didn't like, I'm not sure that Singer would have let happen. I don't know the guy, and it's all hypothetical, but I don't think Singer would have been okay with killing Cyclops or curing Rogue, and would have changed those aspects well keeping everything else the same.

The difference between Singer and Ratner would be that Bryan Singer would have fleshed things out more, and given us those "down" moments to reflect, and would have given us those moments that show us the character or the situation without using any words.

In the end, we got what we got, and overall, I'm happy with what we got, but there will always be that part of me that would like to see what Singer would have done with it (we likely would have gotten a 4th film with Singer also!)

 

[Mdizzle]

I think if Singer were behind it, even if Cyke getting killed or Rogue getting the cure came up, he'd put more thought and explanation behind it. At least have more leading up to it, you know? Singer does a good job with subtleties and putting more meaning behind what's going on...even the "love triangle" in X2 between logan jean and scott was downplayed enough that it wasn't too soap opera-ish. In X3 it's a bigger leap for Wolvie to declare his undying love for Jean and whatever he says at the end when he finally kills her.

Agree with the "down moments". Crucial in the makings of a good, thoughtful film.

 

[X-Maniac]

Yes, some good comments in here...

When Bryan took away himself, his production crew, writers and his ideas for X3, and then 'took' James Marsden... a lot of things were suddenly absent.

For new writers and a new director to come in and 'pick up the pieces' in very little time is incredibly difficult.

If you start a task at your workplace, then ask someone else to finish it off, it'll never be exactly as you would have done it.

We don't know what Bryan would have done - and he's probably professional enough not to reveal it - but there have been hints about Emma Frost and Gambit appearing. So, once again, Angel, Beast and Danger Room would be omitted, most likely - some wouldn't mind, some would. Also the controversial cure storyline is probably something he would not have considered. As for Cyclops... Fox would most likely have still wanted the character absent or dead and I think he'd have fought hard over that (Could it have been one of the reasons he refused to sign for X3?).

I do agree with ntcrawler that the dramatic finality of character fates in The Last Stand does make following it up rather difficult. Even though the cure may not be permanent (as indicated by Magneto) and Xavier, at least, does not appear to be dead... it's going to be difficult to un-cure or resurrect characters without cheapening the drama of the events in X3. Fox has wedged themselves in a corner over this movie. Would Fox allow an X4 in which the mutant cures and deaths were 'reversed' somehow? Would the general public accept it?

The cure storyline was a brilliant platform to introduce Beast, Angel, Leech, give Magneto and Storm motivation, etc... and it is one of the acclaimed comicbook X-men tales of recent times because it strikes at the heart of the mutant issue.. BUT there is also the feeling that presenting mutation as something that could be cured does leave these mutants standing in a very grey area, rather than defiantly fighting for acceptance.

 

[x-fan]

Who else would you want? So far we heard nominations for Raimi, Jackson, and Nolan. How about Cameroon from his pre-Titanic days? How about Jean-Jacques Annaud? He did Enemy at the Gates. I think he did a good job balancing between char development, quiet, tender emotional scenes, energetic battle sequences and gore? Or how about Russell Mulcahy? he gave us Highlander. Also someone who can do battle and action and balance it out with character development, symbolism, and more quiet and tender moments? Or as LastSunrise1981 suggested, Ridley Scott. Now there's a man who can do sci fi, action, darkness, as well as character development.

ridley scott wouldnt be bad but i think i would have geven it to joss whedon

 

[La_She-Beast]

The most important aspect is the storytelling. NOW had Singer and Ratner worked on X3 together? Then it would've been the trilogy of the century(IMO).

Singer could've concentrated on the character development, the acting, atmosphere, and certain visuals. Ratner could've added in the action, visuals, and so on. I definitely believe that would've made people happy.

But yes, I watched X3 and immediately felt, "I wish Singer would've done this one."

But to me it seemed like those who don't want Singer wanted nothing but action anyways. So, you got what you want really. You have a film with nothing but action and visuals, no character development, no heart, and no story that makes you care about these characters or their fates really.
More or less I fall in the line of feeling robbed and bitter about the whole thing.

Oooh yeah I agree completely

^^ or so bad that people would end up laughing at all the "dramatic" parts, which was actually what happened when I went to go see it. lol

You mean X3? sincerely speaking the premire day I smiled a bit with Xavier's death. It was a very tense scene, yes, but with his face wobbling as if he had a gigantic fan in front (I think his wrinkles made that laughable touch) and then suddenly explode into small pieces... I think that was a very indignant death for Charles. It was like: Come on! Is that the most majestic way they came up for his demise?

 

[chaseter]

Do we really need yet ANOTHER thread about this?

No...

 

[Mdizzle]

You mean X3? sincerely speaking the premire day I smiled a bit with Xavier's death. It was a very tense scene, yes, but with his face wobbling as if he had a gigantic fan in front (I think his wrinkles made that laughable touch) and then suddenly explode into small pieces... I think that was a very indignant death for Charles. It was like: Come on! Is that the most majestic way they came up for his demise?

yeah actually that was kind of comical. Agreed. The way some of the scenes were done, I know they were supposed to be serious, but I found some of them to be kind of funny. Pyro vs. Bobby...I can't stop bringing it up, but it was such a disappointment! Let's do this...I think I might have laughed a little bit.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Yeah... Kame-hame-whatever

 

[Mdizzle]

I might have laughed at Angel's expression breaking out of the harness as well, lol.

 

[jrd550]

yeah actually that was kind of comical. Agreed. The way some of the scenes were done, I know they were supposed to be serious, but I found some of them to be kind of funny. Pyro vs. Bobby...I can't stop bringing it up, but it was such a disappointment! Let's do this...I think I might have laughed a little bit.

Yeah some scenes were comical and gay. or gay and comical.