Sequels Sinister Six in ASM3

[Oscorp]

I don't know. I should read the comics again but I don't think Peter went all "symbiote rage" in that story. I'd want the film to focus on Spidey vs. Kraven + Vermin/someone else only.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I don't know. I should read the comics again but I don't think Peter went all "symbiote rage" in that story. I'd want the film to focus on Spidey vs. Kraven + Vermin/someone else only.

Did I mention anyone else in my description? I'd say just Spidey vs Kraven anyway. No Vermin, no one else. If they wanted Black Cat to show up thatd be fine too I guess.

 

[Oscorp]

I was referring to a black suit storyline. I wouldn't want that mixed with the Spidey vs. Kraven story that should be the only focus.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

But you're okay with the current intermingling stories of Rhino, Electro and Goblin, not to mention Peter's Parents, high school graduation and Ravencroft for ASM2?

I really don't think Sony/Webb would want to do 2 hours of one single solitary villain with no secondary plotlines that leads nothing into a sequel (with the exception of Kraven ultimately being one of the sinister six).

Black Suit Spidey should have no bearing on the story itself, except that he fights more brutally and more efficiently. The symbiote would get almost an entire movie to be built up as an effective upgrade for Spidey (just like the comics) without focusing on it much at all (just like Last Hunt). And then in a Venom-centric sequel (ASM5?) he could attempt to shed it.

 

[Oscorp]

That's a bad comparision. They're not adapting a single, very famous comic book story in TASM2 it seems.

I just said Kraven's Last Hunt is my most wanted film adaption. That doesn't necessarily mean I'd want to see that particular story in this film series. I think the story would do best as a stand alone film, and in such a film I wouldn't want a symbiote story to steal the thunder.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

That's a bad comparision. They're not adapting a single, very famous comic book story in TASM2 it seems.

I just said Kraven's Last Hunt is my most wanted film adaption. That doesn't necessarily mean I'd want to see that particular story in this film series. I think the story would do best as a stand alone film, and in such a film I wouldn't want a symbiote story to steal the thunder.

But thats the thing, all of the iconic imagery from Last Hunt is Black Suit. Not to mention Kraven takes over for Spidey using the symbiote. That's where the story comes from. And Spidey does get pretty symbiote-crazy in that arc. Maybe not as much as others, but definitely pretty brutal.

Spoiler

It doesn't sound like you want Kraven's Last Hunt. But rather just some other Kraven story.

 

[Oscorp]

^Wow you seem to take things personally. As I said, I didn't remember entirely so calm down.

Then that's cool. But I don't want the symbiote origin story in a Kraven's Last Hunt film, because that requires way too much space.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

?

I'm not taking things personally at all. I was just explaining some things...

I'm sitting here eating a bowl of cereal. Calm as a friggin koala bear.

 

[onDgrind]

Spidey had the black suit in the Last hunt, but it wasn't a major part of the story. They can adapt Kravens last hunt without the suit.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Spidey had the black suit in the Last hunt, but it wasn't a major part of the story. They can adapt Kravens last hunt without the suit.

I agree but then you take out the part where Kraven shoots himself (so that he can be in the Sinister Six) and you probably take out Vermin because he's such a sub-par spidey villain and you end up with a completely different Kraven story.

I kinda want the Black Suit if they adapt Last Hunt. And I don't see the problem with using it.

 

[onDgrind]

I agree but then you take out the part where Kraven shoots himself (so that he can be in the Sinister Six) and you probably take out Vermin because he's such a sub-par spidey villain and you end up with a completely different Kraven story.

I kinda want the Black Suit if they adapt Last Hunt. And I don't see the problem with using it.

X2 adapted God loves man kills, but they took out a lot, but was still a good movie. Its ok if you want the black suit, but i doubt it will work , only way its gonna work is if the suit was previously introduced in a previous movie,which i think you mentioned before

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

X2 adapted God loves man kills, but they took out a lot, but was still a good movie. Its ok if you want the black suit, but i doubt it will work , only way its gonna work is if the suit was previously introduced in a previous movie,which i think you mentioned before

True that. Yeah I'd have the symbiote introduced in ASM3 maybe toward the end.

 

[LEGO Spidey]

The best roster IMHO would be:

Doc Ock (leadership; introduced in ASM3 or ASM4)
Electro (ranged; introduced in ASM2)
Rhino (muscle; introduced in ASM2)
Vulture (aerial support; Toomes introduced in ASM2?)
Kraven (tracking and melee; introduced in ASM4 or ASM5)
Mysterio (illusions; introduced in ASM4 or ASM5)

It's the same roster as their first appearance in the comics, with Rhino standing in for Sandman as the muscle, and with an extremely varied skill set that would put Spidey to the test both physically and mentally. I hope Doc Ock is introduced as the big bad of the second trilogy and it eventually culminates in a Sinister Six team-up in ASM6. Make it happen, Webb!

 

[AnneFan]

The Sinister Six have to hold their own against the

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

The best roster IMHO would be:

Doc Ock (leadership; introduced in ASM3 or ASM4)
Electro (ranged; introduced in ASM2)
Rhino (muscle; introduced in ASM2)
Vulture (aerial support; Toomes introduced in ASM2?)
Kraven (tracking and melee; introduced in ASM4 or ASM5)
Mysterio (illusions; introduced in ASM4 or ASM5)

It's the same roster as their first appearance in the comics, with Rhino standing in for Sandman as the muscle, and with an extremely varied skill set that would put Spidey to the test both physically and mentally. I hope Doc Ock is introduced as the big bad of the second trilogy and it eventually culminates in a Sinister Six team-up in ASM6. Make it happen, Webb!

Sweet. Yep that's been my lineup since "think bigger"

 

[Super Jim]

But thats the thing, all of the iconic imagery from Last Hunt is Black Suit. Not to mention Kraven takes over for Spidey using the symbiote. That's where the story comes from. And Spidey does get pretty symbiote-crazy in that arc. Maybe not as much as others, but definitely pretty brutal.

It doesn't sound like you want Kraven's Last Hunt. But rather just some other Kraven story.

Although I think Kraven's Last Hunt would be a decent storyline, any black suit story for TASM would need to be a three parter to be good. First you would need the whole Symbiote story, which could take place during another story (such as Kraven), then you would need the Venom story, and then finally Carnage.

The idea of the symbiote bonding with Kraven instead of Brock would not be good. Personally I would like to see Spidey get the suit and have it for the duration of a full movie before dealing with it. Maybe even not realizing that it is alive for that entire movie, just that it gives him extra strength and web without shooters. Instead of the whole secret wars thing, or even the meteor story, maybe have it as a "material" that Peter finds in Doc Ock's lab, or Green Goblin's lab, something like that...

In this whole "think bigger" concept, I think we're going to great places. But here are some questions to think about...

- Is Webb & Co. looking at just the 4 movies, or the "bigger picture" of an ongoing universe?

- If it is the bigger universe, wouldn't some of these characters be better as the main focus of a story?

- For example, wouldn't a story focused on some Vegas or NY illusionist who fell from grace turning to crime (Mysterio) be worthy of it's own story, with secondary storylines (of course)?

- Wouldn't the whole symbiote, Venom and Carnage stories be worth 2-3 movies?

To me, if this is just 4 movies, then I think this all makes sense:

1. TASM1 - origin story of Spiderman, introduce the daddy story and Oscorp, give some general info about Osborn. Go with the whole Gwen love stry arc. Need someone to die... Detective Stacy.

2. Focus on Electro and Rhino with a little Toomes and Osborn/Goblin. Continue to develop the Gwen/Peter love thing and the guilt he has about betraying his promise. Again, we'll need someone to die. If it's not going to be Gwen until #3, then who? Will Electro be killed off? Would Rhino be killed off? Someone must die for the power of the story to come through (someone always dies). So who will it be if it's not Gwen until #3?

3. This one will be all about Green Goblin. Gwen will die in this one, and Goblin may as well at the finale. Of course Mary Jane would be introduced here. Who else would be the supporting villains? I could see Doc Ock, as an Oscorp Scientist (Ultimate Spiderman story) be used here. Doc Ock might escape, while Goblin dies. This would set up #4.

4. Doc Ock, being humiliated in #3 forms the Sinister Six, knowing that it will take more than just he to rid them of Spiderman. He breaks some of the members out of prison where Spiderman put them. He could also hire/convince other members to get us to the needed six. Hiring the greatest hunter the world has ever seen for his greatest hunt would fit here. But so too would hiring one of the best cat burglers to steal information, or something. This could be a way to bring the Black Cat into the story. Of course if it is th Black Cat she would see the error of her ways and switch sides, very similarly to Catwoman in Rises...

So in other words, to figure out who might make it as part of the Sinister Six in TASM4 (if that is where we are going) I think we need to figure out who will die in each movie (someone always dies), so we can determine which villains are still alive, and then go for there.

So simply, who will die in TASM2?

My best guess is if it's not Gwen until #3 (I think this was recently changed by Webb & Co.) then Electro is going to die.

 

[Oscorp]

I agree but then you take out the part where Kraven shoots himself (so that he can be in the Sinister Six) and you probably take out Vermin because he's such a sub-par spidey villain and you end up with a completely different Kraven story.

I kinda want the Black Suit if they adapt Last Hunt. And I don't see the problem with using it.

Did you mean that you wouldn't want Kraven to commit suicide because you want him in Sinister 6?

If that's the case: bad place no! That's why I only want Kraven's Last Hunt as a stand alone film.

As for the Sinister 6 team, I don't think Kraven is that great of a fit. He works better as a 1 vs. 1 threat. I'd replace him with Shocker.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I don't think Sinister six should be introduced. I'm sure people will end up complaining that they are trying to fit too much in. I guess we'll see how ASM2 finishes for clues on whats coming next.

I still think they shouldnt have left somany characters out in ASM. It just makes the sequels too crammed.

 

[Super Jim]

Here's a new thought...

What if this idea of going to 4 official movies is in order to take the same story that they had planned for three, but because they know that they are trying to do so much ("think bigger") they spread it out to 4?

It could be (this is all specualtion):

#1. Origin of Spidey. Gwen. Lizard.
#2. Origin of GG. Electro. Rhino. Gwen dies (I know, people don't want her too - but it would be at the end).
#3 & #4. The Sinister Six and resolution of everything.

Not saying you would have to kill Gwen at the end of TASM2, but I still feel that that was the original idea (remember, someone has to die in every movie for the audience to experience the drama of Peter's life. Captain Stacy in #1, so who, if not Gwen, in #2?

Now if Webb & Co. started to realize that the Sinister Six was going to be too much for one movie, even if most of the characters had already been introduced, then why not get Sony to agree to make it four movies, increasing their profits, by simply splitting the "finale" into two?

Just go with me on this for a second...

Wouldn't this make sense? Webb & Co. wants Amazing to be bigger and better. Sinister Six makes a lot of sense, especially if Toomes is in (Vulture has been in every incarnation of the Sinister Six). Also the fact that we're getting Electro, Rhino and Goblin (at least to some degree) in TASM2 (anyone else see the pictures of the glider and the chamber?).

The biggest concern I have read here of the Sinister Six story is trying to do too much in one movie. So splitting it into 2 solves that problem. It would allow the forming of the Sinister Six to happen in #3, the whole MJ thing starting in #3, allow other villain storylines to be introduced (fingers crossed for Mysterio - but not likely) in #3, and even Black Cat in #3. Then #4 could be the big fights and the final resolution with the ultimate showdown between Green Goblin and Spidey at the finale.

Now I know many want to see Doc Ock as the leader of the Sinister Six, but I think everyone could agree that they seem to be adding a lot of characters for what could be a huge story. With Lizard, Rhino, Electro, Green Goblin, Black Cat, possibly Vulture we actually could already have the six. The Lizard could be forced to work for GG. Black Cat starts of as "kind of a baddie". So why not have these two as part of the six? That way the Lizard and Black Cat could end up helping Spiderman defeat the real bad guys, which really makes it only 4 villains that need to be stopped (much more manageable), and something this big would require Spidey to have help...

Many really want Doc Ock to be the leader of the Sinister Six, so many will be against this, but most will agree that the moment Toomes is introduced the idea of the Sinister Six becomes much more likely...

I know, this is a new concept and possibly a big stretch, but this recent announcement of 4 movies seems to support the idea that they may have realized that they were trying to put too much into 3, so why not split it into 4?

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Anytime I ever say "Gwen should die in 3 not 2" or "Green Goblin should not lead the Sinister Six" there are several reasons but the primary one is decompression.

The longer Gwen is alive, the longer it takes for them to build up to S6 and the more villains who are introduced in the meantime, means more Amazing Spider-Man movies. I'm ready for this series to be 9-10 films long. I'd be much more thrilled with 6+ movies than a measly 3 or 4.

 

[Super Jim]

Anytime I ever say "Gwen should die in 3 not 2" or "Green Goblin should not lead the Sinister Six" there are several reasons but the primary one is decompression.

The longer Gwen is alive, the longer it takes for them to build up to S6 and the more villains who are introduced in the meantime, means more Amazing Spider-Man movies. I'm ready for this series to be 9-10 films long. I'd be much more thrilled with 6+ movies than a measly 3 or 4.

I do agree with you that we will hopefully get a much longer, bond style franchise. There are just so many great stories out there. From the trilogy of the symbiote/venom/carnage, to the reincarnation of the Green Goblin who turns out to be Harry, to Kraven the Hunter and his brother the Chameleon, to Doc Ock, to Morbius, to the Kingpin, to the Hobgoblin, to Mysterio, to Shocker, to Jackal & the Scarlet Spider, to Sandman, to Scorpion, and so on...

The point is that even after Gwen dies there are still so many places to go in the future.

Also just think how cool a Sinister Six poster would be, and they get to use different S6 posters twice!!!!!

 

[Venom'sDad]

I think you missing it slightly.... the Death of Gwen Stacy is the reason for expanding the story into TASM4. I think Webb plan to conclude the DofGS story in 4...imo. Perhaps introducing a silhouette of the Goblin as an cliffhanger at the end of this film, much like the Man in the Shadows. Goblin kills Gwen in 3, Peter/Spidey kill Goblin in 4. Since the plan is certainly to do TASM5.....that's where TS6 will be introduce, led by lead Oscorps scientist/engineer Otto Octavis. The premise being Harry hire the group, supply them with the lastest tech, to seek revenge for his father's death at the hand of SpiderMan.

 

[Repulsor Blast]

The Sinister Six have to hold their own against the

 

[Super Jim]

I think you missing it slightly.... the Death of Gwen Stacy is the reason for expanding the story into TASM4. I think Webb plan to conclude the DofGS story in 4...imo. Perhaps introducing a silhouette of the Goblin as an cliffhanger at the end of this film, much like the Man in the Shadows. Goblin kills Gwen in 3, Peter/Spidey kill Goblin in 4. Since the plan is certainly to do TASM5.....that's where TS6 will be introduce, led by lead Oscorps scientist/engineer Otto Octavis. The premise being Harry hire the group, supply them with the lastest tech, to seek revenge for his father's death at the hand of SpiderMan.

That is definitely one of the ways I see this going. But, here are some points to consider...

1. We have seen set pictures of both Green Goblin's glider and his transformation chamber. The pictures of the chamber included the after pic where he must have broken out of it. We also know that the stunt men have been practicing with the glider. Sure appears that both of these are in TASM2, so wouldn;t that mean that we will see Norman's transformation and likely even him at least flying around on the glider?

2. We have seen set pictures of Gwen in her death outfit (from the comics) and her filming on a bridge. Those pics included ones of her and spiderman coming down from the bridge. Now it is possible that these are all a red herring, but that's unlikely. And it is also possible that Webb put these in to make it seem like she is going to die, but then to switch it and have Spidey save her. But either of these options don't seem likely. Best option to support what you are saying is that they were planning on having her die in TASM2, but have since changed their minds and the footage won;t be used until TASM3.

3. The night Gwen Stacy died was always going to be part of these movies, right? So the change to 4 movies from the originally announced 3 had nothing to do specifically with her death. It could simply be that there was so much going on in TASM2 that Webb switched her death to the beginning or middle of #3, or maybe she's still kicking the bucket at the end of number 2. To me, having movie #2 end with SPidey cradling her dead body and screaming out for revenge would be very powerful and would make me want to see #3 very badly.

4. You are speculating that there is a plan to do TASM5, but they have not announced that. Believe me, I'm hoping there will be a 5 and a 6, 7, 8, 9 and so on. And as I wrote above, there are plenty of great stories and villains for them to be able to do this. But for now, I think they are focusing on what was going to be 3 but is now 4. Which means they will want #4 to be BIG.

5. There is speculation that Vulture (or at least Adrien Toomes) is being introduced in TASM2. The moment we have Toomes, we know we'll have the Vulture, which definitely supports the Sinister Six. If they were going to wait until #5, then why introduce Toomes (if these rumors are true) now, three movies and what, 6 years early?

I will agree that if they don't go with Green Goblin leading the S6 then having Otto as the leader sometime in a future movie makes sense. But GG could easily be the leader of the S6 and many of the expected or normal members could play right into the cross species concept, from Rhino to Electro, Vulture and from #1, the Lizard (who could easily fit into the S6 concept after being broken out of prison).

6. But we'll still have the same issue that everyone is bringing up, which is that 6 villains are too many for one movie. That's how I came up with this idea that they changed from 3 to 4 to support such a huge concept with so many villains. Simply film both 3 and 4 at the same time (as one large movie) and then release it as two. The founding of the 6 could be in #3 and then the fight scenes and the finale would be in 4. I think everyone could agree that a Sinister Six movie could fit and be done well over two movies, but shoving it all into one would be tough, true?

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Just gonna throw this out there, take it with a grain of salt.

The Avengers film built a team around one of Whedon's goals not to have an all-male ensemble. Black Widow was thrown in despite her power level being substantially lower than most of the team and despite her not being an original Avenger in the comics.

Felicity Jones described her character as a "baddie." Whether she is Black Cat or Sable or some other baddie, does anyone think she will be part of the Sinister Six? To avoid an all-male Sinister Six?