So, do comic creators hate marriage?...

[Anubis]

Too bad all the writers after those great stories either didn't read it, or ignored it just so they could "fix" Hank themselves.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Thor's backstory in the cartoon suuuuuuuuuucks. "Screw you, dad, I'm gonna go hang out with mortals on Earth... just because!"

And I wouldn't trade Hank's breakdown for a sanitized version. Marvel's heroes are meant to have feet of clay, after all. The truly impressive part is the work in Avengers and Avengers West Coast afterward that redeemed him and made him a proud, heroic, decent man again.

Well to be fair in that cartoon and in the 616 odin is a bit of a dick with a whole army to protect him. Thor liked the idea of these powerless mortals striving and fighting and felt a kinship, good for him I say.

I'm not a big fan of hank's breakdown. If it happened in another way, maybe. I liked how in the cartoon he was this big pacifist and that was the reason for his internal conflicts which in my ever so humble opinion trumps his reasons for his breakdown in the 616. For me his character in the cartoon is just better in so many forms than his character in the 616 redemption or not, he's just more interesting to me. A superhero that hates fighting and is only really dressing up cause he loves jan and wants to be close to her. That's a cool angle for me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I just don't see any basis for Thor's connection to Earth without his actually being human at any point. It comes off more like he just likes strutting around feeling super-powerful relative to the paltry Earth threats. Basically, it seems like he's not over his arrogant streak, which is the central tenet of the character.

I can see what you mean about Hank, though. The breakdown arc could've used some tightening up, but that's true of a lot of arcs that take on greater meaning over time. It was still the basis for a lot of great work done with the character later on.

 

[DrCosmic]

Writing an interesting marriage is harder than writing an interesting single lifestyle.

1) There are few ways you can dramatically switch things up.
2) As a writer you don't have as many references in other fiction
3) You almost assuredly don't have a breadth of personal experience in marriage. You've typically been in only 1 (maybe 3 tops) and none of them may be at all like the one you're trying to write.

They don't hate it. It's just harder to write. I wish they would though, because there are a lot of unique stories to be found in marriage and family, but I can understand why writers take a more well-trodden path. Why go for the quadruple axel if you're not sure you can land it, y'know?

A great point was made on the first page about perceived marketability of married characters. It does imply responsibility, which flies in the face of many of the power fantasies at play in superhero comics. When you bring kids in, you all of a sudden have this 'wait, I can't do whatever I want?' which is why they have to go, or stay little. Definitely not grow up. No, no.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Actually I don't think that's true. Time and again it's been shown in stories that a good writer can write any character in any situation in a compelling and interesting way. Married, single, gay, straight, superhuman, subhuman, in space or trapped inside a basement just imagining a world... if you come up with good concepts than any situation or circumstance then you'll create a good story. Any "negative" can be a positive and any positive can be a negative it just depends on how you use the elements.

 

[Anubis]

Problem is, most writers aren't very good writers.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Yeah but that's gonna get them the same crap stories whether someone's single or married. So end result bad writer=bad story no matter what their status, powers or situation entails.

 

[Anubis]

Pretty much.

If you can't write drama with a married couple, or even contemplate the type of drama a married couple could have, then your imagination is crippled.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Pretty much.

If you can't write drama with a married couple, or even contemplate the type of drama a married couple could have, then your imagination is crippled.

 

[DrCosmic]

Yeah but that's gonna get them the same crap stories whether someone's single or married. So end result bad writer=bad story no matter what their status, powers or situation entails.

But its not that simple. Most writers are somewhere in between "very good" and "bad". Which means what the story is becomes a factor. Decent writers take easy assignements and write good or great stories, and hard assignments and write bad or mediocre stories. It's not all the same just because someone's not skilled enough to write a great marriage story.

 

[SuperFerret]

So if you're not skilled enough to write a "great marriage story", you shouldn't try to write one. Maybe you should try writing a story where a character happens to be married.

 

[Anubis]

Which is the perfect avenue for sucky writers.

The character being married doesn't have anything to do with them fighting a giant turtle in times square.

 

[SuperFerret]

Exactly.

 

[moraldeficiency]

But its not that simple. Most writers are somewhere in between "very good" and "bad". Which means what the story is becomes a factor. Decent writers take easy assignements and write good or great stories, and hard assignments and write bad or mediocre stories. It's not all the same just because someone's not skilled enough to write a great marriage story.

Look, ASM is marvel's flagship book. It's their batman. You put your best people on your flagships, not decent, not ok, best. And it's the editor's job to make sure you're getting great stories from your writers. There is really no excuse for a crap story but that's doubly so when you're talking your main characters.

If you can't find a way to make a marriage interesting, compelling and full of drama then you've never read anything in literature and you definitely don't know any married people. If you start going down the road of I can only write single superhero stories you continue down that road of easy and what you know and next thing every superhero is generic and interchangable, white, straight and boring as hell.

 

[SuperFerret]

Maybe instead of trying to write stories about single/married/black/white/asian/hispanic/gay/straight/bi/poor/rich/Christian/Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu/Atheist/foreign/native/etc./etc. superheroes, you should be writing about superheroes.

 

[Anubis]

Assuming you're not aiming for character drama and just plot driven stories. Why not? There's very little of that anymore. Might be a welcome change.

 

[SuperFerret]

Character drama can still come without focusing on single aspects of rounder characters. Peter Parker is more than just whatever his Relationship Status is on Facebook.


Speaking of which, "Retconned Romance" should totally be one of the options on Facebook.

 

[Anubis]

Thanks to a time spanning event, my wife no longer ever existed.....so, I'm single again ladies.

 

[Sloth7d]

The key to writing a good marriage (or really just long term relationships in general; honestly marriage is just a word to me) is to always give the spouse something to do in the background that relates to the plot. Don't have them just sitting around waiting for the heroes return like Penelope in the Odyssey. Examples include; Tara and Gemma (Sons of Anarchy), Gorgo (300), Niobe (Rome), Misa (Death Note), Padme (Star Wars The Clone Wars), etc. I think writers get this, but most are stubborn about writing their take on the character; or egotistically believe they can reinvent the character to be even better than before.