So I've been watching the cartoons lately

[Legion]

I guess it did 'suck' (hate that word) for Cyclops and his hardcore fans, for sure. I realise that. I wonder how it would have turned out for Cyclops if Jimmy Marsden hadn't signed on to SR (Singer also approached Famke, Hugh and possibly Shawn, I believe, about being in SR).

I would have loved it if Cyclops had a bigger role in X3 but since he had already been pushed aside in the first two films I wasn't that suprised and really a role change like that would have been odd so late in the trilogy.

As for his death I think it was appropriate considering how Phoenix was handled, as the id, all desire, and primal. Scott and Charles were the authority figures in her life and they were a threat to Phoenix's existence.

I'm glad space and cosmic forces weren't included but comparing it to the cartoon...the 90's cartoon I think did a very good job of mixing classic and current stories with the current team roster. When it came to the Dark Phoenix saga though, they pretty much copy and pasted it because they didn't want mess with the classic story.

Now like I said for the movie, they shouldn't have included everything in the comics but they should have followed the basic outline. A group should have been trying to manipulate the Phoenix for their own gain (which we saw happen) and their should have been a very powerful, threatening force, group, or entity that deemed her too dangerous to live ( never went anywhere in X3). The X-Men fight for Jean's life and at the end they fail and are forced to make the ultimate sacrafice.

 

[X-Maniac]

i know what im saying..... suck is most definitely not considered a bad "sex term" in the US.

Are you kidding?! The US is the only place to use the word 'suck' in that way and it has its origins in a sex act. It's just become so overused that people have forgotten the original meaning!

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Agreed.


And a big issue I had with all the movies is the way Wolverine and Cyclops were handled, especially in X3. I seemed like Cyclops became mroe of the rebellious character and Wolverine was more of the leader type when it should have been the other way around.


Now i know Jean ''died'' and Scott had every reason to be depressed, but it seemed like Cyke and Wolvie switched roles.

That is my biggest problem with the X-Men films. Cyclops is the leader, Wolverine is the brash rogue.

The cartoons are by far the best interpretation of the X-universe outside of the comics. Who can forget that opening theme? EPIC!!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In X2, she says that girls flirt with the dangerous guy but marry the good guy, as she is trying to explain her behaviour of being attracted to him.

Jean did not 'love' Logan, but she had that almost-subconscious attraction to him as the dangerous guy. The Phoenix part of her was more obviously attracted - because it represented Jean's repressed, subconscious desires and partly because the Phoenix felt some kinship with his wild, animalistic persona.

Didnt see any evidence of this to be honest.

As for the attraction, it was obvious she was, even in the cartoons, but she still flat out told him she didnt love him. Why was the Pheonix not attracted to Scott also?

How was it 'poorly staged'?

A number of reasons, all IMO of course. But it was just so 'bleh.' Here was Jean coming back from the dead after saving the lives of everyone she loved, and it came and went without almost a blip. Compare this to a scene of her coming out of the water, screaming, hands in the air, surrounded by bright fire which eventually formed a Pheonix shape, similar to the one at the end of X2, to what we got. The scene's biggest crime also, was that it was that it was emotionless. Especially when we have seen evidence that both Marsden and Janssen are capable of so much better. I simply felt nothing when she returned, it just....happened, and that was it.

 

[X-Maniac]

Didnt see any evidence of this to be honest.

As for the attraction, it was obvious she was, even in the cartoons, but she still flat out told him she didnt love him. Why was the Pheonix not attracted to Scott also?

The way I see it, Scott represented restraint, goodness, with no wild streak. That's backed up by the deleted scene in X1 - an extended version of the part where Jean is in Logan's room and asked to read his mind. In that extended/deleted part, Logan asks if the professor is holding her back and also says something like 'And what about Scott, he seems a little restrained for a girl like you.' Although that stuff never made it into the finished movie, I'd love it to be there in the light of what happened in X3. I feel it backs up my thoughts on the relationship - that Jean was in love with Scott, but that the Phoenix felt more in common with Wolverine.

A number of reasons, all IMO of course. But it was just so 'bleh.' Here was Jean coming back from the dead after saving the lives of everyone she loved, and it came and went without almost a blip. Compare this to a scene of her coming out of the water, screaming, hands in the air, surrounded by bright fire which eventually formed a Pheonix shape, similar to the one at the end of X2, to what we got. The scene's biggest crime also, was that it was that it was emotionless. Especially when we have seen evidence that both Marsden and Janssen are capable of so much better. I simply felt nothing when she returned, it just....happened, and that was it.

Right, well, what can I say except we didn't get all of that. The filmmakers chose a different interpretation:the release of energy, an intense star-like light, no visible firebird. I'd have liked that scene to be longer for sure. I'm in two minds over the absence of a firebird - the fan aspect of me wanted it, the other part of me doesn't mind so much because I think the Phoenix action scenes we did get were, in my view, pretty terrific. I know they tried a firebird concept but, for various reasons, abandoned it. It was in some concept artwork and the screenplay so they must have had a reason not to go ahead with it.

I thought the interpretation of her power as an intense EM force which was so powerful it affected not just metal but all matter, and when concentrated could tear matter apart, was very good - more than just having her mind create a cosmic bird shape. Strong enough EM fields can overcome gravity - as shown in scientific experiments - so it has some basis in real-world physics.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

Are you kidding?! The US is the only place to use the word 'suck' in that way and it has its origins in a sex act. It's just become so overused that people have forgotten the original meaning!

precisely, which is why it is no longer of any concern to me.

and are you really old enough to have been around when people starting using the word "casually"? its very possible that you are just assuming that that is where it came from...

 

[X-Maniac]

precisely, which is why it is no longer of any concern to me.

and are you really old enough to have been around when people starting using the word "casually"? its very possible that you are just assuming that that is where it came from...

I work with words and am interested in their meanings and derivations. I don't have to be old enough to have been there when the word was invented!!!! Believe me, that is the origin of the word, but I was not attacking you personally.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

The way I see it, Scott represented restraint, goodness, with no wild streak. That's backed up by the deleted scene in X1 - an extended version of the part where Jean is in Logan's room and asked to read his mind. In that extended/deleted part, Logan asks if the professor is holding her back and also says something like 'And what about Scott, he seems a little restrained for a girl like you.' Although that stuff never made it into the finished movie, I'd love it to be there in the light of what happened in X3. I feel it backs up my thoughts on the relationship - that Jean was in love with Scott, but that the Phoenix felt more in common with Wolverine.

yes thats how i like to think of it as well. but at face value the movie didnt give ANY of that. that's just how all of us prefer to think of what happened in the movie, because it gives some kind of credibility to what was done.

but thats us trying to make sense of a mess. none of that was ever mentioned or expressed in the final product. and as much as i love the deleted scenes in all of the movies and hope that one day they will be placed back in, we cant really base things off of those either!

but i like the idea that the phoenix wanted to get rid of the two people in her life that represented her confinement.

 

[X-Maniac]

yes thats how i like to think of it as well. but at face value the movie didnt give ANY of that. that's just how all of us prefer to think of what happened in the movie, because it gives some kind of credibility to what was done.

but thats us trying to make sense of a mess. none of that was ever mentioned or expressed in the final product. and as much as i love the deleted scenes in all of the movies and hope that one day they will be placed back in, we cant really base things off of those either!

Sure, but there are things in all three films that are left open to interpretation, that aren't spoonfed to us. One of the reasons I do like coming here is that we can discuss the films and possible explanations and interpretations. There are going to be things open to interpretation in any film, because the films are not factual documentaries that spell out everything to the viewer. As fans we can obsess over them and fill in the gaps - gaps that most mainstream viewers won't even notice.