Something needs to be done about the Joker

[The Demon's Head]

His stories have become formuliac these last few years. He shows up, either kills or injures a member of Batman's supporting cast, Batman almost kills him, but ends up throwing him back in Arkham. It's not working anymore, and while this trend has stopped since "Hush." (I might be wrong, I just got back to reading the titles.) Now he shows up for an issue or two, but nothing is done with him. It hardly feels like he's earned the title of Batman's greatest villain.

He needs to be scary again.

 

[Rynan]

Amen.
The Joker needs to become a competent crook again, instead repeating the same story over and over.

 

[itsthebatman]

Regwec speaks highly of his recent appearances in Detective. What does anyone else think?
Is he over-exposed? What can they do to make him great again?
Tone down the obsession with Batman, I say. Just for a change. Make him do crimes that are not just merely to catch the Bat out.

 

[The Joker]

Regwec speaks highly of his recent appearances in Detective. What does anyone else think?
Is he over-exposed? What can they do to make him great again?
Tone down the obsession with Batman, I say. Just for a change. Make him do crimes that are not just merely to catch the Bat out.

His recent appearance in Detective had him tricking and capturing Batman as well as Zatanna.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Yeah, the recent issue in Detective and the previous one with him and Robin were one of the better comics of his in recent memory.

 

[Rynan]

Tone down the obsession with Batman, I say. Just for a change. Make him do crimes that are not just merely to catch the Bat out.

Recently, I've discovered an appreciation for Dick Tracy villains. They didn't have an obsession with the hero. Their lives didn't revolve around Tracy. He was just an obsticle in their path to wealth, revenge and power. The only things they had for him were hatred and lead.

Why not give the same mindset to The Joker?

 

[The Joker]

Why not give the same mindset to The Joker?

Because alot of Batman's rogues gallery already have that mind set??

 

[BubbaGump]

Sleighride was amazing. Dini should be the only one who can touch the Joker. I loved when he was ordering at the drive-thru.

 

[Rynan]

Because alot of Batman's rogues gallery already have that mind set??

Name one.

Seriously, they all seem to be today either serial killers, mutants or deranged.

Giving The Joker the simplicity of greed, revenge and power is key to his survival.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Name one.

Seriously, they all seem to be today either serial killers, mutants or deranged.

Giving The Joker the simplicity of greed, revenge and power is key to his survival.

Scarface
Penguin
I'm pretty sure Two-Face works more like a mob bosses most times
Killer Croc
Black Mask (I know he's dead, but he should be brought back dammit)

That good enough for ya?

 

[BubbaGump]

Revenge is cliche.

 

[The Joker]

Scarface
Penguin
I'm pretty sure Two-Face works more like a mob bosses most times
Killer Croc
Black Mask (I know he's dead, but he should be brought back dammit)

That good enough for ya?

Add Poison Ivy to that. She's always out doing crimes for mother earth.

 

[Rynan]

Scarface
Penguin
I'm pretty sure Two-Face works more like a mob bosses most times
Killer Croc
Black Mask (I know he's dead, but he should be brought back dammit)

That good enough for ya?

1. Dead, replaced by eye candy.
2. Retired.
3. I'd give you Two-face, but I've never seen a recent storythat hasn't been about him either reforming/getting scarred or involving his origin.
4. Insane Mutant. Or at least that's what I think their trying to feed me.
5. As you said, dead.

But, my point remains. Why must he have deeper drives than greed, revenge and power?

 

[BubbaGump]

But, my point remains. Why must he have deeper drives than greed, revenge and power?

Because Joker's special. He isn't one of Spidey's cliche-ridden villains.

 

[Joker]

Name one.

Seriously, they all seem to be today either serial killers, mutants or deranged.

Giving The Joker the simplicity of greed, revenge and power is key to his survival.

Great White Shark, the new Scarface, Poison Ivy, Two-Face, Charlatan (if they ever bring him back...), Penguin (is he REALLY retired? and if so, you know it wont be for long.), Scarecrow, Mad Hatter, Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc (he just has a skin condition, the mutant thing was only in Hush), Calandar Man, Facade, Firefly...that enough for you?

 

[cass]

The Joker is the ying to Batman's yang. He is there simply to give Batman a challenge. That's his mindset. That's what makes him different than the run of the mill villains, and keeps him in the category of the Goblin, Luthor, Red Skull, and to some extent, Doom.

To make him simply committing his crimes out of greed would be a complete waste and make him no different than the Shocker *shudders*.

 

[DarkKnight85]

Well, I know I don't have very much credibility on these boards because as you can see I have very little posts. But due to this special occasion, I felt compelled to reply. I must say I disagree with the idea that the Joker needs to be redone and that he needs to scary........................mainly due to the fact that is already been done. Unfortunately many people didn't read Batman issue 663 because they were turned off from the prose. And its unfortunate, because people missed out some great Joker work from Grant Morrison.

I read Detective Comics 826 with the joker and found it to be great, Paul Dini certainly has the chacter of the joker down pat in a traditional sense. But I found Grant Morrison's work to be a bit better and more interesting. The dialogue he used in the issue was spot on, and he really tries to give you an idea of what goes on inside that crazy clown's head. And although the super sanity formula was used before in Arkham Asylum, I found it really interesting for Morrison to continue with it. I feel this idea was greatly overlooked by many writers when dealing with the Joker.

MINOR SPOILERS.....................


At the end of the issue the Joker that imerges from his mental metemorphasis is the Joker from Hell. I believe Morrison wanted to get at a more sinister and evil Joker. He wanted to discard/limit the amount of sillyness and flamboyance of the joker (even though these are two traits that he has always had). In fact this is exactly what it appears Christopher Nolan is trying to do with the Joker in The Dark Knight. Quote Heath Ledger, " I think what we are trying to do is not have so much focus on the smile, and have more focus on the eyes." It appears both Nolan and Morrison wanted to show more of what lies beneath this monster, than how he appears and acts on the outside. I find this vision to be very realistic and unique compared to all the other characterizations in the past.

I'm also not saying that I feel the Joker should become some crazy serial killer that just murders people, because that is not really who he is. But I do feel the new joker that Morrison created can be used greatly in the future, if writers continue to follow what he did. My only regret is that I am unsure as to if Morrison will write more stories about the Joker or his issue was just a one shot deal. I mean think about, Grant Morrison arguable one of the best Joker writers, with Andy Kubert as the artist. It's practically money in the bank. Anyone who has seen the splash page of the Joker in the first issue of Batman and Son knows what I'm talking about.

Well...............Thats my two cents on the issue. I respect everyone's opinion but this is how I feel on the subject. I'm now going to prepare my flame shield for the onslaught to come because I am one of the few to actually like issue 663..........................

 

[Comic Book Boy]

His stories have become formuliac these last few years. He shows up, either kills or injures a member of Batman's supporting cast, Batman almost kills him, but ends up throwing him back in Arkham. It's not working anymore, and while this trend has stopped since "Hush." (I might be wrong, I just got back to reading the titles.) Now he shows up for an issue or two, but nothing is done with him. It hardly feels like he's earned the title of Batman's greatest villain.

He needs to be scary again.

Yes!

 

[Rynan]

Because Joker's special. He isn't one of Spidey's cliche-ridden villains.

Yes, he is special. So special in fact he's now a cliche'.

What would you have him commit crime for?

 

[cryptic name]

Name one.

Seriously, they all seem to be today either serial killers, mutants or deranged.

Giving The Joker the simplicity of greed, revenge and power is key to his survival.

he wouldn't really be the joker anymore

 

[Joker]

Yes, he is special. So special in fact he's now a cliche'.

What would you have him commit crime for?

The same reason he does now, because he's an anarchist in the truest of forms and thinks that life is a joke, sufferings the set up, and death is the punchline.

 

[Cyclops3235]

The same reason he does now, because he's an anarchist in the truest of forms and thinks that life is a joke, sufferings the set up, and death is the punchline.

i think that pretty much describes the Joker in full form. You know, besides the Joke theme, he and V from V for vendetta have similar goals... Anarchy. they have different thoughts on anarchy, but the goal is the same.

 

[Agentsands77]

I'm now going to prepare my flame shield for the onslaught to come because I am one of the few to actually like issue 663..........................

I like it too. The prose is more than a little overwritten, but some of the material is gold.

It's also really fascinating to see the supersanity theory brought into continuity... it forces you to look at the Joker in a whole new way, instantly synthesizing all Joker interpretations into one character.

 

[BubbaGump]

Yes, he is special. So special in fact he's now a cliche'.

What would you have him commit crime for?

Grr! For revenge and greed! He hates the Batmans, yes, pwesus.

The Joker does not need reasons to back his actions. He is chaos at its purest form. That is why he commits acts.

He is the Clown Prince of Crime.

 

[cass]

The Joker does not need reasons to back his actions. He is chaos at its purest form. That is why he commits acts.

He is the Clown Prince of Crime.

Amen.