The Dark Knight Rises Does Joker have to be "topped"?

[Arnold Wesker]

First let me just say I know Depp Riddler rumors are just rumors and 99 percent chance it will not ever happen but lets say him or someone of his calibur.

I hope Nolan understands this, Joker is Bat's biggest arch enemey. He doesn't have to be topped, he should be the best.

But if you could indeed get someone LIKE Depp as Riddler, it would be perfect since the Riddler himself wouldn't rival Joker, but Depp's acting can rival that of Ledger's, simply in a differant less pyshical scale and with less carnage.

Still I can't help but feel another villain could fit in w/ Riddler and still work well, and for me it keeps coming back to Hush. He's fresh, not done in a movie and both Hush and Riddler can deal w/ the persona of Bruce Wayne and knowing who he is.

Harvey Bullock would make a nice addition to the police force and great partner for Gordon, who should be hunting down Batman.

PS, that wormy Mister Reese isn't IMO a big enough actor to be Riddler, Riddler should totally kill that guy so that no one but Riddler knows who Batman really is. Sets the tone for how crazy and dangerous he can be.

So do you really have to top the Joker, or will fans still accept it, if its more the style of Batman Begins? A little more psychological like Insomnia.

 

[The Demon's Head]

I agree that The Joker can't be topped, even in the comics. But Johnny Depp is wrong for the Riddler, he'd play him too close to Heath's Joker.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

he shouldn't be topped, he should be equaled.

if you go into it thinking he should be topped, then he certainly won't be, the story is the most important thing, as long as the villain has a good story, that's the most important thing

 

[Laderlappen]

No. Even though nobody else in the movie was as good as Heath, I wasnt dissapointed that they weren't.

 

[Nepenthes]

I think merely trying to 'top' the Joker would be going into the film with the totally wrong mindset. But the film should have a certain scale. I do think that going from the Joker to the Riddler can only be underwhelming, no matter how you portray Mr.E.

Again, I have to ask the question: who IS (or has been) Batmans most intense and challenging threat after the Joker,Ra's and TwoFace? Who has fought the most demanding battle with Batman, for the highest stakes? clue: it is not the friggin Riddler or Black Mask

 

[The Demon's Head]

I think merely trying to 'top' the Joker would be going into the film with the totally wrong mindset. But the film should have a certain scale. I do think that going from the Joker to the Riddler can only be underwhelming, no matter how you portray Mr.E.

Again, I have to ask the question: who IS (or has been) Batmans most intense and challenging threat after the Joker,Ra's and TwoFace? Who has fought the most demanding battle with Batman, for the highest stakes? clue: it is not the friggin Riddler or Black Mask

It's too soon after B&R for Bane.

 

[Rogzilla]

Joker shouldn't be out done...the Dark Knight should be. The sequel needs to be even bigger, more epic, more powerful, etc.

 

[Gianakin_]

I think the sequel needs to be different, like TDK was compared to BB.

 

[Shane Diesel]

The reality is whatever villain(s) are used in the Third they will be compared to the Joker. I think the original plan was to mitigate this by including Joker to some degree in the Third. Unfortunately, this is now not likely since I doubt they will recast. They've painted themselves into a corner. You can't top the Joker b/c there's no one else like him, especially this Joker whose psychosis is matched by his intelligence and cunning. Therefore you would have to make a better story than DK. But how do you top the story in DK? In the hands of another director I'd say no chance. But I do think Nolan can do it. However, the lingering feeling I have is that the Third will be a step down from DK notwithstanding great villains and an engaging story simply b/c of how powerful the Joker was in DK.

 

[Gianakin_]

Technically, life painted them in a corner, when Heath died. But I get your drift. Having 2Face live sounds so good now...

 

[Nepenthes]

It's too soon after B&R for Bane.

wha? There'll be 13 years and two very successful Batman movies in between them. I think people know by now the movies are a little different. And honestly I'd be surprised if any normal people remembered Bane from BF at all.

 

[Malone]

I think the sequel needs to be different, like TDK was compared to BB.

I agree. Batman Begins was awesome, yet they couldn't do the same kind of movie for a sequel because we'd seen it. The Dark Knight was excellent, now its time to tell a different kind of story. I believe that if you made the same kind of movie as TDK, it wouldn't compare at all. You can't "top" the Joker using his own style.

 

[Arnold Wesker]

They can make it very differant and still good. He can have a new Wanye Manor and Batcave. New Batmobile. I think 2 villains teaming up sounds right. And with Riddler the battles don't have to be physical, he can be more like a puppet master, which is why I like Hush as the physical brute that actually fights Batman. Riddler should want to feel superior mentally to those around him, he should want to prove to Batman he's his equal or better.

 

[The Joker]

Joker doesn't have to be topped. But they could at least try and equal his greatness with another villain.

 

[NoirMan82]

It's nigh impossible to top Joker. He's one of the greatest villains in any media. What you have to do is craft a story that pushes what TDK explored, same way TDK did it with BB. I really like the Riddler being the main villain. I also like the thought of Black Mask picking up the pieces of the mob, and Two-Face's triumphant return.

 

[nickyg641]

That's why I think I'm an advocate of a Joker recast for the third film. He really just can't be topped. Another may be able to equal his greatness as a villain, but the Joker really does deserve to have a place in the sequel. Otherwise, it would feel rather anti-climactic.

 

[Heretic]

Heaths Joker is (in my opinion...and actually the opinion of several of my friends who hate superheroes) the best villian in cinema history. You cant top it. Thats why I FIRMLY believe that the next movie should be a mystery, and we should spend most of our time with Bruce/Bats. He can go through the established rogues gallery and you arent trying to top the previous villian.

 

[GhostPoet]

I don't think it's a matter of topping the Joker...I think the Riddler would just be a different experience.

 

[DieSmiling]

I don't think that the Joker can/should be topped with one villain, but I think that the overall threat level in the third movie has to top the threat level in TDK. You just can't make a third installment with less at stake and less going down than the second installment... It doesn't make sense.

Riddler will never top Joker, but a compelling story about the rise of freaks in Gotham (featuring Riddler, Catwoman, Black Mask, Ventriloquist, Oswald Cobblepot, etc.) and Batman's quest to for redemption, to take back the city, and establish his place as the everlasting guardian of Gotham could absolutely top a bleak Joker tragedy.

 

[Tojo]

The joker, Heaths Joker that is, cannot be topped or surpassed imo. He/it was just too wild, far too charismatic to be outdone. so If Nolan does make a third(which i doubt) then he'll just have to make a different movie, as he probably would do anyway, just as TDK was a totally different movie to BB.

As for the Riddler, the problem for me is that i just don't care about the character. I just don't understand what he stands for. Crane was fear, Joker chaos, dent justice etc but what about Riddler? And is it going to be as epic and universal as the others? I doubt it to be honest.

I'd like to see Dent return and continue his special form of vigilanteism, and for possibly the Cobblepot arms dealer rumours to formulate into something of substance. But most of all i thin the third should be Bruce Wayne/Batmans film. He was severely overshadowed in TDK. His struggle with the cops and citizens of Gotham, and rachels death should be put at the forefront with a great story alongside it.

 

[Heretic]

If you did The Riddler the virals would be cool as heck. Plus, hes so different from The Joker theres just no comparing them. My idea of keeping it all a secret would fit with promotion as well because you could have like 10 different promotional posters with "Riddle Me This" on it and different suspects. rather than compete with The Joker, make it a whodunnit. Ras, Earle, Engel, Reese, even Fox could be immediate suspects, and as Ive said before, revisit Scarecrow, Joker, Zsasz...the public would be paying less attention to a villian outdoing Heath and trying to figure out whos doing the crimes.

 

[superkong 500]

The joker can't be topped and i think riddler in nolans hands may be too close to his joker I think we need both a physical vilain and a cerebral one therefore I think bane should be it.

The nolan brothers could write him as an intelligent fierce strategist, that hapens to be very strong but also well versed in hand to hand combat.

Instead of him a having a drug that makes him stronger it should be a new steroid than more than strength gives him high tolerance to pain, have him be as strong or just a bit stronger than bruce but also very cunning and add the drug to boot. This would also be a great chance to put bats outside of gotham into southamerica to investigate bane's background having him interrogate several thugs in the way he only knows.

bane could manipulate both the mob and the freaks. There could be some other villians scarecrow could come back and penguin have the police with their hands full and the citizens attacked by these freaks and them having no choice but to turn to bats for help.

 

[ronny]

No. Joker doesn't have to be topped, there's a heriarchy amongst the freaks and I hope that Nolan realises this. The Riddler is near the bottom of the pecking order and that is exactly the point.

 

[Heretic]

The general public doesnt think that Riddler is a bottom feeder villian. They see him as one of the top 4. Therefore, you base hype around The Riddler, make him a centerpiece of promotion, yet make him a stooge in the actual movie. Thats why Hush works perfectly.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

The general public doesnt think that Riddler is a bottom feeder villian. They see him as one of the top 4. Therefore, you base hype around The Riddler, make him a centerpiece of promotion, yet make him a stooge in the actual movie. Thats why Hush works perfectly.

Sounds a little too similar to the relationship between Scarecrow and Rhas in the first film. I remember before Begins came out, Rhas's inclusion in the film was almost a secret and Scarecrow was where all the villain hype was.