The Dark Knight Rises Does Joker have to be "topped"?

[Microchip]

I thought Hush was the stooge in Hush. And Riddler was the criminal mastermind.

I agree that the third should be as different from TDK as BB was from Dark Knight. I also agree it should be Batman/Bruce Wayne's movie. What'd work best for me here would be having Catwoman fill the main antagonist role, which, as Selina Kyle, would also help develop Bruce Wayne further. Scarecrow could be entered as a second villain to give Batman something else to worry about.

 

[MiniBond]

Joker souldn't be topped at his own game: creating chaos and anarchy !!!


But I trust Nolan and co. to make a very different movie compared to BB and TDK......that's the only way to carry on a good third installment with a new villain with a totally different goal so that we cannot compare him to the Joker !

 

[Microchip]

Joker souldn't be topped at his own game: creating chaos and anarchy !!!


But I trust Nolan and co. to make a very different movie compared to BB and TDK......that's the only way to carry on a good third installment with a new villain with a totally different goal so that we cannot compare him to the Joker !

Exactly! But I still think this should be more Batman-focused.

 

[The Batman]

No. Joker doesn't have to be topped, there's a heriarchy amongst the freaks and I hope that Nolan realises this. The Riddler is near the bottom of the pecking order and that is exactly the point.

uh, no thanks...riddler being second rate is pretty much an idea started with jeph loeb's long halloween, and need not be continued.

 

[jmc]

The Joker can't be topped and nor should they attempt to, otherwise you fall into the trap of serving up something that's been done before. So far in this series with had 2 very different films, it's hasn't been like your conventional sequel where tone and style are the same, the same thing needs to be applied to a third movie. If you for instance use The Riddler and treat him in the same way as Joker, larger than life, stealing the scenes then the films is already flat regardless of how good the story is. I've said this before, what needs to be done is a complete 180 degree turn with the next bad guy, he's got to be subtle, maybe even to the point where he's almost like a silent film character, very calm, few lines, doesn't look threatening but really is, there's a certain creepiness to someone like that.

 

[Tel Aviv]

It's not that the character should be topped (I don't think he can be topped), more that the threat should be comparable. Both Ra's and The Joker are villains with motivation beyond money or power. That's what makes them so formidable, their absolute belief in order and chaos. A third villain should follow suit, not to outdo but to pose a threat of similar scale.

 

[Arnold Wesker]

I don't see why the Riddler has to be "hands on". He should be obsessed with proving he's smarter then everyone, like a puppet master.

Can't his motives simply be that his narcissism drives him to up his crimes after each go, and to leave a riddle to try to let Batman know who he is.

Like many real life murderers do with the cops, leaving a "calling card" to let people know its him, but at the same time he feels even more superior since hes helping solve his own crimes but still alluding Batman.

Hush can be the physical aspect, Riddler tells him who Batman really is and can play the two against each other like a game of chess, not really caring who wins bcuz in the end, he is entertained so he wins.

I agree with what others are saying about focusing more on Batman as well, you got the new Batcave and Batmobile to play around with.

And if Riddler kills Mister Reese to keep the Batman secret, that could tie TDK to this new movie the same way Jokers card tied the end of Batman Begins to TDK.

Hell you could even have the big surprise ending be that Two-Face is still alive and shoots Hush kinda like the comic. Which could even set up a 4th movie, maybe w/ an Arkham breakout and Joker recast. We may be more open to it a few years down the road.

 

[GenesisBeyond]

If you can't top the Joker, why not go the completely Opposite Direction? The Joker was never going to stop. He loved it.

What if the RIDDLER hates it? What if he is trying to stop? But the narcissim and OCD won't let him? Have we ever seen a Villian in a Superhero Movie that didn't want to be a Villian, but couldn't stop himself?

Would that make him less of a threat to Batman?

As I deal with OCD, I say it makes him more human, more believable.

 

[the_monk]

I think the key here, and it's very much a Nolan-esque way to approach it, is to not make the villain as important as Joker was. This story started out as a story about Batman. It needs to return to a personal story, and end that way.

 

[GregComicFan]

My thoughts...

1. The Joker does NOT have to be topped.... TDK's storyline MUST be topped... the storyline of Batman 3, its execution, it's themes, the actor's performances, the action, the suspense, the thrills.... that is what MUST top TDK.... no one will argue that the Joker is the most thrilling of villains to watch, so people need to walk out of Batman 3 just saying "that was a great story, a great movie, even better than TDK. Sure, the Joker is always gonna be the coolest, but Batman 3's storyline blew me away"

2. I guarantee A HUGE HOLLYWOOD STAR (like Johnny Depp) will be cast as the villain in Batman 3. It's a guarantee. No doubt. After the critical acclaim of Batman Begins, and the uncanny critical acclaim and boxoffice success of TDK, BIG NAMES will be considered and a marvelous cast of talents will be assembled for Batman 3. There's no doubt in my mind.

 

[boywondernerdDC]

all i know is they cannot top joker, they should not try to top Heath, and they should never ever recast or have a stand in for the joker. I would rather have a lame excuse as to what happen to him or why he isn't in the third. Deleted footage would be even better but...

 

[TLH]

I think the sequel needs to be different, like TDK was compared to BB.

Exactly.

The only way to live up to TDK is to go in a different direction and deliver a different type of film. I would love to see Batman 3 take a plot similar to The Long Halloween or Dark Victory -- a murder mystery -- with some great extended action sequences.

 

[ronny]

uh, no thanks...riddler being second rate is pretty much an idea started with jeph loeb's long halloween, and need not be continued.

But that's the point, he's always trying to prove himself to be superior. It's the irony that's such a good aspect about the character.
He wants to be a successful criminal but his whole gimmick of leaving clues is the one thing that will always stop that happening.
I don't want a suave Riddler because that's just not how the character is. He's completely smarmy and annoying, not a cultured gentleman with a bowler hat and cane.

 

[Riven]

The Joker is a villain that's hard or impossible to top, but that doesn't mean they should aim low from now on.

I think their best bet is to shift to focus away from the villains and onto Batman again. That way, they can go with "lower tier" villain(s) AND not disappoint.