Spanking children leads to adult mental illness

[Hotwire]

(snip) I will go as far to say that it is impossible for a child to grow up without doing something that garners consequence, if a parent feels that the child has repeatedly disobeyed them and continues to do so with prior education and warnings of consequences...(snip)

Perfect. That's exactly right. What's wrong is thinking that consequence = spanking. A consequence can be a number of different things. As long parent is not afraid to enforce them, you have no problem. When you see kid at the store acting up, how have times do you see the parents do nothing but offer empty threats? That's when you have a problem!

 

[Hotwire]

The belt? Repetitive backtalk and stealing would be some, for example. As I've said, the belt rarely has to be brought out.

Now I can understand your mindset. It's sad you can't come up with any reason options in those situations.

 

[CConn]

Haha, you trying to win on the internet? Now that's cute. And as far as you were raised, I suppose you're going to say you turned out just fine? So have many people who were spanked... what's the difference? You didn't prove anything except in your own mind.

You really need help with conprehenion.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Now I can understand your mindset. It's sad you can't come up with any reason options in those situations.

You really can't understand my mindset, until you see the line between physical discipline and abuse. Continued exaggeration will result in continued obliviousness.

Edit. Correction, physical discipline.

 

[CConn]

The other distinct argument that I would have against spanking is that in actual clinical or academic situations - from professional animal trainers, to professionals dealing with low-functioning autistics, etc. - physical punishment is regarded as an extremely inappropriate and ineffective form of negative reinforcement.

So I couldn't fathom that something that's deemed inhuman (by people with PhDs) to do to animals and the mentally ill, would be a good idea to utilize on a mentally healthy child.

 

[knowsbleed]

Perfect. That's exactly right. What's wrong is thinking that consequence = spanking. A consequence can be a number of different things. As long parent is not afraid to enforce them, you have no problem. When you see kid at the store acting up, how have times do you see the parents do nothing but offer empty threats? That's when you have a problem!

You've stated yourself that a consequence could be a number of things, spanking could be one of those "things". Sometimes even the hint/suggestion of spanking, even to a child who has never been spanked, is enough for the child to realize that if their behavior maintains... they will be punished.

A combination of many different methods of discipline should be used to mold behavior. At the same time, a combination of many different types of consequences should be used if their behavior becomes unacceptable in the parent's eyes. Spanking, used properly and not as an emotional outlet, is just ONE of those types. It should never be used exclusively, just as time-outs should never be used exclusively... THAT's when it becomes ineffective.

 

[Hotwire]

I just don't see your point of view because you liken it to abuse while I think it was discipline.

Anytime, someone has written about some sort of spanking or belt, you seem to over exaggerate it to someone having to call Dyfs to report it.

I didn't classify it at all. Yet, they way you interpreted my rewording is a bit telling.

No, I've only changed the words. You and others have seen it as me exaggerating. Never once did I say anyone was abusing a child.

By changing the wording, it takes off its sugar coating. Does my description sound worse, yes, it does. Yet I've said exactly the same thing.

Read the definitions on the words. Spank/Hit, Belt/Leather Strap. It's funny how spanked my kid with a belt is okay, yet hit my kid with a leather strap is abuse. They're the same action, just different words.

 

[Erzengel]

Hotwire, I think that different parenting skills can yield similar results. I'm not that presumptuous to state that there's only one correct way and like ANYTHING there are always seems to be exceptions.

 

[CConn]

You've stated yourself that a consequence could be a number of things, spanking could be one of those "things". Sometimes even the hint/suggestion of spanking, even to a child who has never been spanked, is enough for the child to realize that if their behavior maintains... they will be punished.

A combination of many different methods of discipline should be used to mold behavior. At the same time, a combination of many different types of consequences should be used if their behavior becomes unacceptable in the parent's eyes. Spanking, used properly and not as an emotional outlet, is just ONE of those types. It should never be used exclusively, just as time-outs should never be used exclusively... THAT's when it becomes ineffective.

I've never heard that repetition of a single punishment becomes ineffective.

 

[SuperFerret]

Perfect. That's exactly right. What's wrong is thinking that consequence = spanking. A consequence can be a number of different things. As long parent is not afraid to enforce them, you have no problem. When you see kid at the store acting up, how have times do you see the parents do nothing but offer empty threats? That's when you have a problem!

Consequences are different depending on the child. Spanking worked for me better than time outs did, but the worst punishment of all for me were the times my parents took away my books. That's not something that would work with all children. Excluding an option because you want to feel more civilized is pretty stupid in my opinion.

 

[CConn]

Consequences are different depending on the child. Spanking worked for me better than time outs did, but the worst punishment of all for me were the times my parents took away my books. That's not something that would work with all children. Excluding an option because you want to feel more civilized is pretty stupid in my opinion.

What about taking away an option because it IS more civilized?

 

[Hotwire]

You've stated yourself that a consequence could be a number of things, spanking could be one of those "things". Sometimes even the hint/suggestion of spanking, even to a child who has never been spanked, is enough for the child to realize that if their behavior maintains... they will be punished.

A combination of many different methods of discipline should be used to mold behavior. At the same time, a combination of many different types of consequences should be used if their behavior becomes unacceptable in the parent's eyes. Spanking, used properly and not as an emotional outlet, is just ONE of those types. It should never be used exclusively, just as time-outs should never be used exclusively... THAT's when it becomes ineffective.

Why do you so badly need your justify hitting a child?

 

[knowsbleed]

The other distinct argument that I would have against spanking is that in actual clinical or academic situations - from professional animal trainers, to professionals dealing with low-functioning autistics, etc. - physical punishment is regarded as an extremely inappropriate and ineffective form of negative reinforcement.

So I couldn't fathom that something that's deemed inhuman (by people with PhDs) to do to animals and the mentally ill, would be a good idea to utilize on a mentally healthy child.

There are two sides to every argument, there are many people, also with PhDs and some MDs, who support spanking.

 

[Hotwire]

Hotwire, I think that different parenting skills can yield similar results. I'm not that presumptuous to state that there's only one correct way and like ANYTHING there are always seems to be exceptions.

I'm not saying anything one way is right. Only that one, specific, way is wrong.

 

[knowsbleed]

I've never heard that repetition of a single punishment becomes ineffective.

I hope you're not serious. I don't even see why I need to explain this if you would truly think about it. If every time a child does something that garners consequence, a parent uses the same punishment over and over again, do you honestly think that the child won't become immune to the punishment? The child would develop a tolerance and in turn, the punishment becomes ineffective.

Why do you so badly need your justify hitting a child?

I'm just saying that a responsible parent has the choice to use it as a tool.

 

[Hotwire]

Yeah.

I don't want to make assumptions about people like Erz, or try to be condescending in regards to their own psychology, but it does seem like a lot of people are hesitant to say physical punishment is wrong purely because they don't want to feel slighted that it had been done to them and/or they don't want to admonish or insult their parents by saying they did something innately wrong.

Fair logic. I would agree.

 

[Hotwire]

I hope you're not serious. I don't even see why I need to explain this if you would truly think about it. If every time a child does something that garners consequence, a parent uses the same punishment over and over again, do you honestly think that the child won't become immune to the punishment? The child would develop a tolerance and in turn, the punishment becomes ineffective.



I'm just saying that a responsible parent has the choice to use it as a tool.

That's true. Thus you increase the severity of said punishment or try something else.

You, however, still don't need to hit a kid.

 

[knowsbleed]

You really need help with conprehenion.

Well... let me try to comprehend then.

If we want to get to the essence of what spanking is... in a responsible parent's eyes, it is a consequence.

Exactly. And there's countless other more effective consequences that can be given.

Moreover, I fully believe proper parenting can be achieved even without conseuqences if you have enough intellectual fortitude; it's just a matter of being knowledgable about psychological processes and having strong philosophies on how to manipulate those processes in positive ways.

I was speaking of spanking as a consequence for unacceptable behavior. You stated, "I fully believe proper parenting can be achieved even without conseuqences if you have enough intellectual fortitude". I believe that in raising a child, they will have to face consequences for unacceptable behavior no matter how much intellectual fortitude a parent has. It is part of learning.

This fantasy world you live in where every parent has at least a minor in child psychology and behavioral develpment and the time and money to be with your child 24/7 to ensure they never get into a situation where they never act in a way that requires a consequence sounds truly ideal. I want to live there.

Well, it's precisely how my mother raised me and my sister.

And so far, we've been raising my stepdaughter in the same fashion. She's only 4, but it's working out extremely well thus far.

So apparently, it is possible. You're just haven't encountered it personally.

So, if you are comprehending my statement and your reply is in relation to that... you are essentially saying that your upbringing was perfect in that you never acted out and never needed to be punished... and your stepdaughter is the same.

Congratulations. It's nice to hear there are so many perfect lives out there. I guess there is still hope for humans.

My sarcastic reply due to my disbelief of an immaculate upbringing.

Is this how you usually respond to being proven dead wrong?

It is how I respond to your situation. Your parenting style is just that... yours. Your bad dream is sad... I had a bad dream where I witnessed my feet being eaten by giant birds... I don't equate that to psychological trauma. Stating that it takes an unintelligent/lazy person to spank their child is generalizing at it's finest. As I mentioned before, I'm sure that intelligent, hardworking parents who also believe in spanking actually do exist.

There's different levels of intelligent.

There's book smarts, there's IQ, and there is true realization and wisdom that comes that's born from the previous two.

I'm sure there are doctors and lawyers and people with PhDs who spank their children, likewise people who work 12-hour hard labor jobs all of their lives - but it is, and will always be my contention that those people lack true wisdom and sophisticated thought.

But besides, that's not even what you were talking about. You outright said my parenting style was impossible. I proved you wrong. And - unsurprisingly - you immediately tried to change e subject to something else. How cute of you.

I never said your parenting style is impossible... never. I said your parenting style was your own. What I was saying was that it is impossible raising a child so perfectly that they never behave in a manner that requires consequence.

I did change the subject, I admit to forgetting what we were actually talking about... humans have flaws, whodathunkit.

 

[bullets]

It would be weird for a kid not to act out sometimes.

 

[SuperFerret]

What about taking away an option because it IS more civilized?

If you wish to delude yourself, then that's perfectly fine.

 

[katie_girl09]

Well, when someone is justifying hitting a child for any reason and using a belt to do it, and telling everyone in a public forum about it, of course I'm going to speak my mind and tell them that I feel what they are doing is wrong.

It's fine if you tell them that you PERSONALLY think it is wrong. But you aren't doing that. You are basically accusing everyone who spanks his/her child of being a child abuser.

 

[Hotwire]

It's fine if you tell them that you PERSONALLY think it is wrong. But you aren't doing that. You are basically accusing everyone who spanks his/her child of being a child abuser.

I never accused anyone of anything. I reworded what they said. I will admit that it does sound worse when you take off the sugar coated pretense, though.

 

[katie_girl09]

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. You implied that anyone who spanks his/her kids is a child abuser. Better?

 

[Hotwire]

Oh, okay. I'm sorry. You implied that anyone who spanks his/her kids is a child abuser. Better?

Not implying anyone is a child abuser.

He said, "I spanked my 5 year old niece with a belt." And felt this was perfectly acceptable. However, when I reworded it to, "You hit your 5 year old niece with a leather strap." Suddenly that make it sound like child abuse. The intent was to show exactly what he was doing and that no amount of sugar coating, or pretense would get it or justify it.

Bottom line, hitting kids, for ANY reason, is unneccesary, uncalled for, and flat out wrong.

 

[The Squirrel]

IN YOUR OPINION! good grief.