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Spanking children leads to adult mental illness

I was spanked before 5 and I never had traumatizing nightmares. Kids are not mentally identical. Just because something happened to you doesn't mean it happens to all of us.
Yes, I realize. Which is why my argument against it, really has little to do with my personal experience.

It's about alternate, more positive, and more approved (by, Y'know, actual experts and doctors) methods.
 
I don't quite understand the question. I don't recall saying I was unlikeble as a child. I said, I often didn't like other children. My home schooling essentially raised me as an adult from very on, so that wad rather unique, yes.
I should have been clearer.

You posted something to the effect that one of your best friends stop being friends with you because of your treatment of a then gf. You went to make amends but he never forgave you?

You acknowledged that your behavior wasn't the best and I guess I wondered if the way you were raised may have led to that type of behavior?

You want me to be perfectly honest? My now-estranged father spanked a few times when I was quite young. Under 5. I still remember it. Vividly. I still remember a dream it gave me of having a son of my own, and hating him, and taking joy out of hurting him.

I had that dream when I was 5. If that isn't a clear indication of what physical punishment does to a child, I don't know what is. It doesn't matter if a parent enjoys it or not; it's about how the child preceives it. And I'm sorry, but no underdeveloped mind is ever going to equate physical pain with love...and if they do, they'll probably end up like Zed's gimp. :o

I was a spoiled brat when I was a child. My parents bought me a toy, and it wasn't the one I wanted and I threw it and broke it. I got the belt for that.

One time I used an obscenity for my father and he slapped me hard.

Even back then I knew I had it coming. Could it have been resolved through more peaceful means? Sure it could have. Am I some sort of sociopath now? No.

My father came from another country where stuff he enduredt was worse than the slap or belt he gave me.

Does that mean I'm going to automatically hit my kids? No. But I'm never going to say never either.
 
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Because hiding your reasoning is suspicious.

And a cheap exit if you choose to enter into a debate about the topic, and talk about your own personal actions and philosophies yet refuse to expand on them.
 
Is this how you usually respond to being proven dead wrong? :o

It is how I respond to your situation. Your parenting style is just that... yours. Your bad dream is sad... I had a bad dream where I witnessed my feet being eaten by giant birds... I don't equate that to psychological trauma. Stating that it takes an unintelligent/lazy person to spank their child is generalizing at it's finest. As I mentioned before, I'm sure that intelligent, hardworking parents who also believe in spanking actually do exist.
 
That's not for discussion on this thread, or anywhere else on these forums.

Suddenly it's not as easy to justify when you have to actually explain why you did it. If it's so acceptable to do, you would think an example of what warrants a spanking with a belt would add to your argument.

Maybe it's not as acceptable as you thought?
 
I should have been clearer.

You posted something to the effect that one of your best friends stop being friends with you because of your treatment of a then gf. You went to make amends but he never forgave you?

You acknowledged that your behavior wasn't the best and I guess I wondered if the way you were raised may have led to that type of behavior?
That's actually a really good, complex question.

However, I really don't think it did. In that situation, I actually got a very great deal of negative conseuqences from my mother and my entire family. I was quite loathed by all for a time.

But I still did what I had to do - both in a bad way, and in a good way - and as time passed, and more information came out about how that gf was acting in private and behind the scenes, my family suddenly began to understand and even agree with some of my actions and choices.
I was a spoiled brat when I was a child. My parents bought me a toy, and it wasn't the one I wanted and I threw it and broke it. I got the belt for that.

One time I used an obscenity for my father and he slapped me hard.

Even back then I knew I had it coming. Could it have been resolved through more peaceful means? Sure it could have. Am I some sort of sociopath now? No.

My father came from another country when stuff like that was worse than the slap or belt he gave me.

Does that mean I'm going to automatically hit my kids? No. But I'm never going to say never either.
See, I feel like you have the right idea, but you're holding back just a little bit from coming totally full circle that it's simply just not necessary.
 
Suddenly it's not as easy to justify when you have to actually explain why you did it. If it's so acceptable to do, you would think an example of what warrants a spanking with a belt would add to your argument.

Maybe it's not as acceptable as you thought?

It's fully acceptable, I'm just not going to bring personal family matters into a thread full of strangers. I've always been like that, and I'm not changing anytime soon. I'll gladly tell you my methods, and how I react when my niece gets too far out of line but anything else past that is private.

It involved the family dog, and that's all I'll say on the subject.
 
It is how I respond to your situation. Your parenting style is just that... yours. Your bad dream is sad... I had a bad dream where I witnessed my feet being eaten by giant birds... I don't equate that to psychological trauma. Stating that it takes an unintelligent/lazy person to spank their child is generalizing at it's finest. As I mentioned before, I'm sure that intelligent, hardworking parents who also believe in spanking actually do exist.
There's different levels of intelligent.

There's book smarts, there's IQ, and there is true realization and wisdom that comes that's born from the previous two.

I'm sure there are doctors and lawyers and people with PhDs who spank their children, likewise people who work 12-hour hard labor jobs all of their lives - but it is, and will always be my contention that those people lack true wisdom and sophisticated thought.

But besides, that's not even what you were talking about. You outright said my parenting style was impossible. I proved you wrong. And - unsurprisingly - you immediately tried to change e subject to something else. How cute of you.
 
I should have been clearer.

You posted something to the effect that one of your best friends stop being friends with you because of your treatment of a then gf. You went to make amends but he never forgave you?

You acknowledged that your behavior wasn't the best and I guess I wondered if the way you were raised may have led to that type of behavior?



I was a spoiled brat when I was a child. My parents bought me a toy, and it wasn't the one I wanted and I threw it and broke it. I got the belt for that.

One time I used an obscenity for my father and he slapped me hard.

Even back then I knew I had it coming. Could it have been resolved through more peaceful means? Sure it could have. Am I some sort of sociopath now? No.

My father came from another country where stuff he enduredt was worse than the slap or belt he gave me.

Does that mean I'm going to automatically hit my kids? No. But I'm never going to say never either.

Honestly, go back and read your own logic. Just because your father didn't hit you the way HE was hit, it was okay him to hit you, hard, when you did wrong? You were taught that you deserved to be hit by the your own father for doing something wrong. And even now, you're okay with that.
 
Well, that hurts. Because, ya' know, I was vying for your respect this entire time. :o

But seriously. I suddenly don't care.
I was just kinda hoping you'd put me on ignore, honestly. :o
 
See, I feel like you have the right idea, but you're holding back just a little bit from coming totally full circle that it's simply just not necessary.
Well I mentioned earlier in this thread that I helped raise a child who's father walked out on her, I was a "surrogate" father for probably the first 5 or 6 years of her life. And she was well behaved and good natured and I never had to physically discipline her.

It's not necessarily holding back per se. It's just in hypothetical situations like this, I wouldn't necessarily know what I'd do unless I was in that situation.

Like those who say they'd never cheat, yet never really had to push someone off of them.
 
Honestly, go back and read your own logic. Just because your father didn't hit you the way HE was hit, it was okay him to hit you, hard, when you did wrong? You were taught that you deserved to be hit by the your own father for doing something wrong. And even now, you're okay with that.
Yeah.

I don't want to make assumptions about people like Erz, or try to be condescending in regards to their own psychology, but it does seem like a lot of people are hesitant to say physical punishment is wrong purely because they don't want to feel slighted that it had been done to them and/or they don't want to admonish or insult their parents by saying they did something innately wrong.
 
I was just kinda hoping you'd put me on ignore, honestly. :o

I only ignore those that I truly think are a problem. Even though I disagree with you, you haven't bothered me to that extent.
 
I am personally against spanking because I question the message that it sends...that you can force someone to do something by hitting them.

Something just seems very...primal....about it.

That said, I do acknowledge that there is a difference between a couple spanks on the behind and beating your child black and blue, and I don't think you're an abusive parent just because you spank your children when you deem it necessary.

I do believe there is a very careful line between spanking and abuse that you have to be careful never to cross, and that if you spank, you should do it when you are as calm as you can be, to make sure you don't do it harder than you should in the heat of your anger.
 
Why does someone have to think of spanking as a necessity when it should be used as a tool? I will go as far to say that it is impossible for a child to grow up without doing something that garners consequence, if a parent feels that the child has repeatedly disobeyed them and continues to do so with prior education and warnings of consequences... then spanking could be used as a punishment for refusal to comply.

As far as psychological trauma, locking a child in a room for any amount of time could also lead to it. Spoons and I have stated that our parents have made us stand with our arms outstretched for periods at a time... that was very unpleasant and could potentially lead to psychological trauma... dare I say, even nightmares. If the child learns their lesson given to them by a parent who doesn't use spankings out of anger and in the proper way, then is it not effective?
 
It's fully acceptable, I'm just not going to bring personal family matters into a thread full of strangers. I've always been like that, and I'm not changing anytime soon. I'll gladly tell you my methods, and how I react when my niece gets too far out of line but anything else past that is private.

It involved the family dog, and that's all I'll say on the subject.

I can understand a wish for privacy regarding family. Let's go with hypothetical. What is something she COULD do that would warrant it?
 
But besides, that's not even what you were talking about. You outright said my parenting style was impossible. I proved you wrong. And - unsurprisingly - you immediately tried to change e subject to something else. How cute of you.

Haha, you trying to win on the internet? Now that's cute. Your child is 4... you've got a lot of parenting to do still. And as far as you were raised, I suppose you're going to say you turned out just fine? So have many people who were spanked... what's the difference? You didn't prove anything except in your own mind.
 
I can understand a wish for privacy regarding family. Let's go with hypothetical. What is something she COULD do that would warrant it?

The belt? Repetitive backtalk and stealing would be some, for example. As I've said, the belt rarely has to be brought out.
 
Well I mentioned earlier in this thread that I helped raise a child who's father walked out on her, I was a "surrogate" father for probably the first 5 or 6 years of her life. And she was well behaved and good natured and I never had to physically discipline her.

It's not necessarily holding back per se. It's just in hypothetical situations like this, I wouldn't necessarily know what I'd do unless I was in that situation.

Like those who say they'd never cheat, yet never really had to push someone off of them.
Okay, that makes a bit more sense.

I will say this; growing up, we watched my cousin (12 years my junior) a lot, and he was (and still is), and absolutely awful child. He was babysat by some real scumbags when he was very young, and it definitely negatively affected him to a great extent.

He would take absolute delight in disobeying and causing trouble. He would never take no for an answer. He would just get more and more frantic and hyper in his bad behavior until it basically reached a point of no return. Outside of actual physical violence against others, he was pretty much as bad as you could get.

And only once did I ever have to take any physical action against him; once he was trying to let our dogs out the front door (I think that was it, I don't quite remember), and I physically held him back from the door until he said he'd stop.

And, admittedly, he hurt himself a bit from struggling with me and trying still to get to the door, but I didn't do anything to hurt him in anyway.

That's the farthest I'd ever go.

And, I will admit, when you have a child who's become as...damaged as my cousin is, consequences are very much needed. My mom's or my own form of parenting would be totally ineffective. But even then, there are still other methods that can utilize.
 
Honestly, go back and read your own logic. Just because your father didn't hit you the way HE was hit, it was okay him to hit you, hard, when you did wrong? You were taught that you deserved to be hit by the your own father for doing something wrong. And even now, you're okay with that.
I just don't see your point of view because you liken it to abuse while I think it was discipline.

Anytime, someone has written about some sort of spanking or belt, you seem to over exaggerate it to someone having to call Dyfs to report it.
 

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