Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 110

[Ashes2Phoenix]

Hi everyone ! I have not posted for years but have been keeping track of these forums. I have to say I am very excited about this film. Yes it is not the traditional Spider-Man but updates need to happen to make things fresh. In regards to Tony Stark being the new" Uncle Ben" it is pretty clear what they are trying to do. If Peter has only been Spider-Man for six months prior to meeting Tony, it would make sense for him to look up to and confide in him. They made it very clear in Civil War there was an Uncle Ben. I put money on them having a discussion about what happened and this would make sense as to why Tony is trying to get Peter to take on small crimes. He feels responsible for him. There might be a twist here and not only will Peter that realise that with great power comes great responsibility but Tony will as well.

Spider-Man having this tech suit is also a very interesting angle because it will no doubt get in the way and he will opt to get rid of most of the bells and whistles by the end of the film. This is great character building and will show his growth into Spider-Man. Maybe I am going into too much depth but Peter is only fifthteen and most of us at that age feel we do have something to prove. What happens though is that we don't realise is that it is not about proving to others but actually ourselves. I believe in the Disney special Jon Watts said that Peter is having trouble accepting himself for who he is. I think this is great because I am sure we will see by the end of the film that he will embrace who he is and not try to be something he is not. He will realise he does not need to be an Avenger to be a hero.

Even though they have changed things around it appears the heart of the character is intact and that is what matters. It does not have to be "Your" Spider-Man to be a good film and I hope that we are all pleasantly surprised once we have seen it.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'm noticing a pattern from all the spoilers.

On one hand, the Sony problems seem lacking - subpar writing, poor pacing, messy universe building, and a lack of consistency.

On the other hand, the Marvel problems seem present - underwhelming score, lack of solid cinematography, feeling too "safe", and too much connectivity.

Also a lack of a good villain on both sides.

 

[marvelrobbins]

It's a waste of Keaton's talents, though.

i feel keaton will rise vulture up somewhat from the writing.

but finally getting keaton in comic book film again and it be subpar role is disappointing.

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

i feel keaton will rise vulture up somewhat from the writing.

but finally getting keaton in comic book film again and it be subpar role is disappointing.

To be fair you can't gauge if Vulture is going to be a subpar villain from one Twitter reaction.

 

[harryoscop]

Hi everyone ! I have not posted for years but have been keeping track of these forums. I have to say I am very excited about this film. Yes it is not the traditional Spider-Man but updates need to happen to make things fresh. In regards to Tony Stark being the new" Uncle Ben" it is pretty clear what they are trying to do. If Peter has only been Spider-Man for six months prior to meeting Tony, it would make sense for him to look up to and confide in him. They made it very clear in Civil War there was an Uncle Ben. I put money on them having a discussion about what happened and this would make sense as to why Tony is trying to get Peter to take on small crimes. He feels responsible for him. There might be a twist here and not only will Peter that realise that with great power comes great responsibility but Tony will as well.

Spider-Man having this tech suit is also a very interesting angle because it will no doubt get in the way and he will opt to get rid of most of the bells and whistles by the end of the film. This is great character building and will show his growth into Spider-Man. Maybe I am going into too much depth but Peter is only fifthteen and most of us at that age feel we do have something to prove. What happens though is that we don't realise is that it is not about proving to others but actually ourselves. I believe in the Disney special Jon Watts said that Peter is having trouble accepting himself for who he is. I think this is great because I am sure we will see by the end of the film that he will embrace who he is and not try to be something he is not. He will realise he does not need to be an Avenger to be a hero.

Even though they have changed things around it appears the heart of the character is intact and that is what matters. It does not have to be "Your" Spider-Man to be a good film and I hope that we are all pleasantly surprised once we have seen it.

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

Haha ! Thought you would like that ! But seriously we have seen two different versions of Spider-Man already that in their own ways have been very close to the source material. It is time for a change and I applaud them for taking the risk. The real question is whether it will pay off !

 

[harryoscop]

Haha ! Thought you would like that ! But seriously we have seen two different versions of Spider-Man already that in their own ways have been very close to the source material. It is time for a change and I applaud them for taking the risk. The real question is whether it will pay off !

Homecoming could have been a faithful adaptation of the early 60s comics (since that's where all the characters or rather their names in this movie are coming from) which would have made it different from Raimi & Webb but I digress. It probably will for the most part.

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

Homecoming could have been a faithful adaptation of the early 60s comics (since that's where all the characters or rather their names in this movie are coming from) which would have made it different from Raimi & Webb but I digress. It probably will for the most part.

See this probably sounds like an insane idea but if I was in charge when Spider-Man was only with Sony I would have set The Amazing Spider-Man series in the 60's. It worked so well with X-Men First Class and I think it would have worked for Spider-Man as well. Alas this is what we have now and I hope we enjoy it.

 

[marvelrobbins]

right response.

they could have done faithful version and go if there had never been a spider-man film before this is what they thought spider-man should be done.they could have this more faithful to comics.you could in civil war already have spider-man who si recruited by stark for help.and leave stark/iron man out of most of homecoming untill ending or third act where he is recruited into avengers setting up infinity war.

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

I do understand the concern for this film. We are all big Spider-Man fans and I know the concern is that Spidey will be the weak link in the MCU. However I think it is very important to establish Peter's connection with Tony for three reasons :
1) It obviously sets Spidey in the MCU.
2) Spidey is going to be the connecting tissue of Cap and Tony talking again.
3) Infinity War is just round the corner and there needs to be a reason for Spidey to be there.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if Steve Rogers was the mentor instead of Tony ? I feel Spider-Man is going to be the heart of the MCU and they are builiding him up to be the best of them. That is why Tony wants him to be better because he obviously sees the hero Peter can become.

 

[Random490]

Greed and stupidity often go hand-in-hand, especially when filmmaking is concerned. Let's recap the Spider-Man franchise within the last ten years, under Arad and Pascal:

- Avi Arad forced Sam Raimi to put Venom in Spider-Man 3, because he has a hard-on for the character and wanted to sell toys. Raimi was forced to do this despite coming off of the critically-acclaimed and financially successful Spider-Man 2, which should have granted him the freedom to do whatever he wanted for the third film. Instead, he shoehorned in a character he didn't like, and the results speak for themselves.

- Despite the response to Spider-Man 3, they moved forward with Sam Raimi on a fourth Spider-Man film. Just months before the film was supposed to start shooting, they pulled the rug out from under Raimi, cancelled Spider-Man 4, and decided instead to reboot the franchise. They decided to reboot a franchise literally five years after the last film had come out. And for all its faults, SM3 was not an awful film. It certainly wasn't on the level of Batman & Robin, which necessitated a Batman reboot.

- The Amazing Spider-Man came out and the reception to it was fine. However, it came out the same year as The Avengers, when Marvel had their huge payoff and the concept of the cinematic universe exploded.

- Seeing the success of The Avengers, Arad and Pascal decided to use TAS2 as a springboard for their own Spider-Man universe. They essentially used the sequel as a means of setting up future films. Like Warner Brothers, instead of taking the route Marvel did and building things up over the course of several films, they wanted to get everything set up in one film. They wanted to rush to the end game. The results, again, speak for themselves. TAS2 was a mess - an aimless film with several subplots introduced with little-to-no resolutions by the end. It literally collapsed under its own weight.

- And because of their failure with the Amazing Spider-Man franchise, they had to get in bed with Marvel and essentially co-produce a second reboot within five years for one of their most successful franchises. All because they had burned up their good will with audiences. I can absolutely, unequivocally guarantee that Arad and Pascal would not have wanted to do the Marvel deal in an ideal situation, and instead do their own thing. Now they have to leech off of another studio's successful brand in order to save their own.

All of this in the span of 10 years. They went from having one of the juggernaut superhero franchises to needing help from a rival studio. That's not the trajectory of a franchise run by smart people.

One correction here, Sony didn't pull the rug from Raimi, actually it was vise versa. Sony was on a tight deadline and Raimi knew under the time limit he would not be able to flush out his ideas to produces something of quality. So he choose to leave the film. He knew they were planning on rebooting after Spider-man 4 and 5 so he told them to just go ahead and do it anything. And even though SM3 was awful it still was the most profitable Superhero of all time (not sure if it's been dethroned yet) So to let the right lapse would have been the worst decision ever. The rest is pretty accurate.

Still I hope Marvel Studios show they how to make a good and profitable superhero film.

That's how I'm picturing it. I'm hoping Sony carves out their own corner of the MCU, keep the stories smaller in scale and character driven. Kind of like the Netflix series. At the very least set the films someplace other than NYC, I know the Agent Venom comic was set in Philly for a while, it would be a cool place to set that's still close enough to NYC for future films. I think Black Cat and Silver Sable could be set in Europe for something completely different. Would really help with continuity and creating it's own tone.

I'm remaining optimistic with this. I'm willing to give it a chance.

 

[ironwez20]

It's new. And apparently him saying dude and cool really rubs people the wrong way. Lol

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

It's new. And apparently him saying dude and cool really rubs people the wrong way. Lol

Yeah I find that interesting. Just because it has been in some of the trailers people assume it is going to be throughout the movie. He is a teenager who is witnessing something cool ! What else is he supposed to say ? Lol

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Yeah I find that interesting. Just because it has been in some of the trailers people assume it is going to be throughout the movie. He is a teenager who is witnessing something cool ! What else is he supposed to say ? Lol

*Cue harry's "im a teenager and i dont talk like that!" comment*

 

[Shikamaru]

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Steve Rogers was the mentor instead of Tony ? I feel Spider-Man is going to be the heart of the MCU and they are builiding him up to be the best of them. That is why Tony wants him to be better because he obviously sees the hero Peter can become.

I wrote about the difference between Tony and Steve in the skepticism thread:

I think relative to Cap, the choice to use Tony is in poorer taste.

First, Tony is Marvel's poster boy for irresponsibility. If there's anything Peter should learn from him, it's how to not be like him as much as possible.

Second, there's the background history of the characters. If you go back to the 1960s, both Peter and Tony were created in response to the youth movements. Peter was who those activists saw themselves as, Tony was the corporate archetype they despised. With Iron Man, Stan Lee wanted to challenge himself and see if he could turn that archetype into a successful superhero.

Third, there's the real-life politics. I don't know how much of a political junkie you are, but a lot of people (myself included) attribute the economic problems Millennials face to reactionary responses to the 60s. Basically after that decade, the West's elites came to the conclusion young people had to be more disciplined. How do you achieve that? Raise tuition costs, increase the presence of Big Business in their lives, etc. So when you see the 1960s' symbol for youth autonomy now answer to Tony "I have to control everything" Stark, that combined with fact #2 add another layer of poor taste.

Basically these three factors create a sense of poor taste I don't think I'd have as much with Steve Rogers.

 

[harryoscop]

*Cue harry's "im a teenager and i dont talk like that!" comment*

Uh, it's true though. I just graduated fr High-school in Brooklyn (which was very diverse like Homecoming's version of Midtown) & nobody is as excitable & naive as him. Somebody like him would ruin the word "awesome" 'cause hes constantly saying, in every trailer we've seen.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Uh, it's true though. I just graduated fr High-school in Brooklyn (which was very diverse like Homecoming's version of Midtown) & nobody is as excitable & naive as him. Somebody like him would ruin the word "awesome" 'cause hes constantly saying, in every trailer we've seen.

Awesome dude

 

[harryoscop]

Awesome dude

And although physical bullying like classic Flash wasn't really a thing, Jocks (for our track & Football) were prevalent so there's no excuse for the "Modern" Flash not being one,,

 

[IAmAsgardian]

I don't think a classic Flash would fit into a fancy high school they're going with.
Although, that's one more reason for Peter to have a slightly more sophisticated vocabulary.

 

[Shikamaru]

The problem with "physical bullying isn't a thing" is that most bullies are smart about it. They'll almost never do it in front of everyone.

In fact, contrary to popular belief, most bullies are charismatic and liked by the teachers. They avoid negative spotlight the same way sociopaths would. It's actually ignorant for people to say " I didn't see it so it doesn't happen" (don't mean to pick on you Harry but you're just one of thr many examples of people saying this daily).

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

Uh, it's true though. I just graduated fr High-school in Brooklyn (which was very diverse like Homecoming's version of Midtown) & nobody is as excitable & naive as him. Somebody like him would ruin the word "awesome" 'cause hes constantly saying, in every trailer we've seen.

Yeah but to be fair none of you are a super hero with extraordinary abilities. I think that in itself is exciting. He seems to be most excitable when he is Spidey which falls in line with his duality. I have not seen him say awesome or cool as Peter. Therefore I don't really get where you are coming from but of course you are entitled to your opinion !

 

[Shikamaru]

Also whenever done in public, victims of bullying won't act like they're being bullied. They act as if it's just friendly banter. They laugh at their bully's insults, smile when teachers/students walk by, etc. This is because public bullying is a form of humiliation.

If they really based this film on Tom's experiences in high school, saying "I went to school and didn't see a bully" is extremely ignorant and insensitive. They should be ashamed.

 

[Repulsor Blast]

what's he supposed to say instead of cool and awesome?

i dunno, maybe a quip that ties contextually to what is happening around him?

 

[Ashes2Phoenix]

what's he supposed to say instead of cool and awesome?

i dunno, maybe a quip that ties contextually to what is happening around him?

And who is to say he does not ? We have only seen two minute trailers lol ! You ca't make that judgement until you have seen the film !

 

[JOE]

It's a waste owf Keaton's talents, though.

This would have weight if you had seen the movie.

Just why harry? SMH...