It's not racist, but I do find it close-minded. If you could look at a pitch perfect portrayal of Harry Osborn by Tony Revolori but say it's wrong because he's not white, I think there's something wrong with that.
Did I literately just read that the only reason these people were cast was because of race bending and there is no chance they were best for the role? Some of you guys must have inside info then. At least Harry is being reasonable and making good points. A few of you guys are completely nuts though lmao.
I'm waiting for someone to make some points on how Harry and Norman have to be white and why is it important for those two characters.
one reason why I liked the last Wolverine movie was that they didn't whitewash the entire cast. they cast Asians to play the Asian roles, since the movie was largely set in Japan.
as one is who is half-Asian himself, I want to see more diverse casts, especially Asians in leading roles. But I wouldn't want them to take a white character and suddenly make him Asian because they want more diversity.
In most cases its fine but there are other times race/ethnicities informs said characters lifestyle and personality.
Being so flippant about race swapping leads us down a slippery slope. I think it's fine for characters that aren't defined by it.
Superman is an example of that. Although I'm such a purist that even hiring a blonde actor in the role would be a no no for me. It has nothing to do with race but everything to do with visual fidelity.
Often times fans determination to see this visual fidelity is misconstrued as "racism" (a word that is so easily thrown around these days).
I suggest people actually look up the definition .. it's literally about disliking an ENTIRE race... not about a person not being what is deemed the right or wrong race for an acting roll...
Ant man and Spider-Man......... Two way different things man. Waaaaaay different. Ant man is well.... Ant man and Spider-Man is one of the most iconic characters of all time.
As I said... Peter's HS years were very short.. outside of the bugle his supporting cast at midtown high was incredibly small... basically just Liz and flash... maybe Deb? Can't recall if she was in hs
It's not racist, but I do find it close-minded. If you could look at a pitch perfect portrayal of Harry Osborn by Tony Revolori but say it's wrong because he's not white, I think there's something wrong with that.
I'm very open to the idea of Tony as Harry anyway tbh. I knew Harry and Norman had a greater chance of being changed the moment Kroll dropped that Cryptic tweet about Peter's best friend.
Agrees. Flash is acceptable to change. People know mj. They also knew Johnny storm... and that did not sit well with people
Rule of thumb is lesser known = lesser cared. Sometimes it's even practicallity... I mean did anyone know of a famous big imposing actor for kingpin at the time that would have trumped MCD? No likely not.
The more known, the more care and iconography a character represents... thus more friction if changed
I'm very open to the idea of Tony as Harry anyway tbh. I knew Harry and Norman had a greater chance of being changed the moment Kroll dropped that Cryptic tweet about Peter's best friend.
I applaud you for that. And I agree MJ should stay unchanged. But there are suddenly people on here who don't want ANY character changed, except for MCD as Kingpin, who got a free pass for some reason...
with Liz Allen, I'd say she's a lower tier character than MJ, even if she was created long before MJ. So, changing her race isn't as big of a deal. And I have a feeling that Zendaya or this new girl could be Liz.
as for MCD as Kingpin, I'd say that's an exception to the rule because the character Kingpin has unique physical characteristics ( his huge size and stature ). Because of that, casting an actor of a different race might have worked because he better matched that physical characteristic.
Plus, I'd say that outside of the comics, Kingpin isn't a well known character and certainly not on the same level as MJ or other villains like Joker and Lex. So, it's a bit easier to get away with race changing that character.
I don't think it will be that easy to racechange MJ, though.
Agrees. Flash is acceptable to change. People know mj. They also knew Johnny storm... and that did not sit well with people
Rule of thumb is lesser known = lesser cared. Sometimes it's even practicallity... I mean did anyone know of a famous big imposing actor for kingpin at the time that would have trumped MCD? No likely not.
The more known, the more care and iconography a character represents... thus more friction if changed
Agrees. Flash is acceptable to change. People know mj. They also knew Johnny storm... and that did not sit well with people
Rule of thumb is lesser known = lesser cared. Sometimes it's even practicallity... I mean did anyone know of a famous big imposing actor for kingpin at the time that would have trumped MCD? No likely not.
The more known, the more care and iconography a character represents... thus more friction if changed
I'm sorry, no one "cares" about these things outside of these sites. The Johnny Storm race change didn't sit well with people HERE, the same people freaking out now. If Fant4stic had been a good movie, then people would be anxiously awaiting MBJ's next turn as Johnny. Because he was a great fit as the character.
I applaud you for that. And I agree MJ should stay unchanged. But there are suddenly people on here who don't want ANY character changed, except for MCD as Kingpin, who got a free pass for some reason...
It's not racist, but I do find it close-minded. If you could look at a pitch perfect portrayal of Harry Osborn by Tony Revolori but say it's wrong because he's not white, I think there's something wrong with that.
But that's just it... it's incredibly hard to divorce appearance from a visual medium especially with a 60+ year history... especially when let's face it.. some of these characters arnt all that difficult to portray.. I mean.. Harry i don't find all that difficult for an actor to portray... rich kid with daddy issues... if you can do angsty.. the rest just sorta falls into place for harry...
What do you mean by "make sense". Because I agree they shouldn't exclude white actors for a part just for diversity's sake. But for most parts, people of any race should be available.
I applaud you for that. And I agree MJ should stay unchanged. But there are suddenly people on here who don't want ANY character changed, except for MCD as Kingpin, who got a free pass for some reason...
MCD was fine. It was a great take on Kingpin. Donald Glover wanting to play the Miles Morales Spider-Man, I'm all for it. Hell, they just casted Iris Elba to play The Gunslinger in 'The Dark Tower' series and I think he's going to do the Roland character so must justice.
Glover actually wanted to be Peter and there was a campaign for it. It got acknowledged by Sony, and despite 'em having Garfield locked in at the time, they had an Easter egg of him on Peter's wall in TASM.
Definitely think he could've pulled it off with ease, despite his age being an issue at the time (which it was for Garfield but go figure).
My problem is when studios won't cast the right actor or actress regardless of race. I don't really see the problem with these castings. I don't know how many people of you have been to Queens, New York but it really is a diverse place.
MJ's race has nothing to do with her character... It had no bearing on my love for the character. She should be played by the best actress for the role. And that could someone of any race.
Exactly. The only truly defining thing about MJ for me is the color of her hair and that is an easy fix if Harrier or Zendaya portrayed the character. (Of course you'd have the vocal minority whining about her not being 'natural' but neither was Dunst and she did fine, so whatever)
It just boggles my mind how people can be open to some characters being race-swapped (mostly the smaller ones like Liz, Ned Leeds, etc.) yet get up in arms if a major character could potentially be of a different race.
Either commit fully or don't commit at all, honestly.
The 'flack' she got was disgusting and borderline embarrassing.
When I stated "Everybody know and loves", I'm including the color of her hair. Only thing that would be different would be the color of her skin -- that's it.
with Liz Allen, I'd say she's a lower tier character than MJ, even if she was created long before MJ. So, changing her race isn't as big of a deal. And I have a feeling that Zendaya or this new girl could be Liz.
as for MCD as Kingpin, I'd say that's an exception to the rule because the character Kingpin has unique physical characteristics ( his huge size and stature ). Because of that, casting an actor of a different race might have worked because he better matched that physical characteristic.
Plus, I'd say that outside of the comics, Kingpin isn't a well known character and certainly not on the same level as MJ or other villains like Joker and Lex. So, it's a bit easier to get away with race changing that character.
I don't think it will be that easy to racechange MJ, though.
Which goes back to my point above in response to Syntax. Why is it truly OK for smaller characters to be of different race yet the major ones remain untouchable? Is there that much of a difference at the end of the day?
By changing the race of someone like a MJ or a Harry, you aren't really toying with the characterization in terms of personality or anything like that. So again, I don't see the big deal aside from comic book purism.
What I argued to you was that Zendaya potentially being MJ would be just that -- MJ, character and all (including the color of her hair). Yes, it may not be 'natural', but who honestly cares? Did people go into the Raimi series complaining how Dunst wasn't natural -- therefore not a good pick?
Would that really be so bad at the end of the day if this were to be true?
I'm sorry, no one "cares" about these things outside of these sites. The Johnny Storm race change didn't sit well with people HERE, the same people freaking out now. If Fant4stic had been a good movie, then people would be anxiously awaiting MBJ's next turn as Johnny. Because he was a great fit as the character.
Dude do you even frequent social media? The Johnny Storm distaste was mild as all hell on these boards compared to the general public social media... I mean EVERY site posting about it on EVERY source of social media was met with very very extreme distaste... even by many black people....
As a gay man, I find it incredibly offensive when a straight character is suddenly turned gay to appease my minority... have faith in pre-existing LGBT characters or create new ones... don't throw me table scraps that's not equality
But that's just it... it's incredibly hard to divorce appearance from a visual medium especially with a 60+ year history... especially when let's face it.. some of these characters arnt all that difficult to portray.. I mean.. Harry i don't find all that difficult for an actor to portray... rich kid with daddy issues... if you can do angsty.. the rest just sorta falls into place for harry...
But see, that's what I've never understood. To me, I don't get how a character's skin tone affects the character if he's not written to be a certain race. If this was all prose, you'd never know that the Osborne's were white. So to me, wanting a faithful adaptation of a character is to want the actual CHARACTER represented, not just the traditional visual interpretation. It's what makes the character who he is that counts. With Harry, he's a bundle of contradictions, the popular nerd who is outwardly confident while harboring a mess of issues stemming from a complicated relationship with a father he desperately wants to impress. Race isn't a part of what makes him who he is.
What do you mean by "make sense". Because I agree they shouldn't exclude white actors for a part just for diversity's sake. But for most parts, people of any race should be available.
To be fair, as much as some don't want to admit it their are cultural differences that do come along with different races... and yes part of the difference is privelage or not and that does shape a character...
Dude do you even frequent social media? The Johnny Storm distaste was mild as all hell on these boards compared to the general public social media... I mean EVERY site posting about it on EVERY source of social media was met with very very extreme distaste... even by many black people....
As a gay man, I find it incredibly offensive when a straight character is suddenly turned gay to appease my minority... have faith in pre-existing LGBT characters or create new ones... don't throw me table scraps that's not equality
I didn't see any of that. But I'd be willing to bet my Marvel Legends collection that if that movie had turned out a masterpiece, people would be hailing Jordan as perfect casting. Because he was.
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