Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 95

[SpideyJJ]

it's not so much about the punching comments for me (I'm aware it bothers some other users, tho) it's the emphasis on his innocence and naivety just because of his age. They did it in Civil War (in the Blu-Ray, Tom himself said Peter had no idea what the fight was really about. He just wanted to impress Tony and was all wide-eyed about the Avengers), and the comments from Tom make it seem like they'll continue with it in Homecoming. I sincerely hope I'm proved wrong and Marvel tones down the 'but lol I'm a kid!!!' approach in the movie, but I suppose that waits to be seen.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

that's why he pulls his punches.

i read tom's comment about never throwing a punch and my heart sank; i've made no secret that i am invested in spidey from a fight scene perspective.

i really wanted a spider-man who fought aggressively and defensively. sounds like they are going to have him jump out of the way and have thugs run into one another.

this is fine in moderation, but to never throw a punch... to always be the trickster or overly defensive in fights is not the way to go. Jackie Chan throws punches and kicks in his movies, even though he is very much about making his opponents look silly and using the environment against them.

Spider-man throws punches and kicks.. he does handsprings and throws.. he can be offensive and there's nothing wrong with that. this 'kid-friendly' justification is BS; the hulk smashed loki and kids all loved that scene.

Spider-man isn't going to pummel regular thugs and break their noses, but for goodness sake, don't design your fight scenes so he never throws a punch/attacks offensively.

So, so dumb.

my hype for this film has sunken quite a bit due to tom's comment.

Ughhhh not another TASM disaster, I don't think he even threw a punch in either movie.

I think people may be reading too much into punching comment, but in all honesty if you think about it if spiderman went around punching everyone they'd likely be dead, unless they consciously make the effort to convey that he pulls his pubches. But statements like prepare for him to be a dumb 15 year old cartoon character loony toon is ridiculous. Imo.

The same could be said for Cap yet he doesn't hesitate to punch his enemies and as a result we have some of the best action in the genre, there is no reason to NOT have Spidey punching criminals.

 

[harryoscop]

it's not so much about the punching comments for me (I'm aware it bothers some other users, tho) it's the emphasis on his innocence and naivety just because of his age. They did it in Civil War (in the Blu-Ray, Tom himself said Peter had no idea what the fight was really about. He just wanted to impress Tony and was all wide-eyed about the Avengers), and the comments from Tom make it seem like they'll continue with it in Homecoming. I sincerely hope I'm proved wrong and Marvel tones down the 'but lol I'm a kid!!!' approach in the movie, but I suppose that waits to be seen.

I agree, they pretty much beat it over our heads in Civil War. Now, in Homecoming I want to see classic teenage Spidey (who wasn't an over-the-top caricature of a teen) and I don't need to be reminded every 5 seconds that he's 15 years old otherwise it's going to get super annoying super fast: in USM-cartoon territory.

Ughhhh not another TASM disaster, I don't think he even threw a punch in either movie.






The same could be said for Cap yet he doesn't hesitate to punch his enemies and as a result we have some of the best action in the genre, there is no reason to NOT have Spidey punching criminals.

Except he's a baby Spiderrr amd he scared he going 2 hurt the criminals. He dont want to be a meanie head. Hes only 15 and he doesnt know any better.



Maybe this film really will be rated PG.

 

[Flint Marko]

I can't get behind the character not throwing a single punch, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. I mean surely we aren't going to work ourselves up over such a trivial detail, right?

Oh wait, I forgot what section I was in for a moment

 

[Repulsor Blast]

i'll be fine if he attacks offensively albeit without punching. there's kicks, and throws, and what have you. but i think tom's comment isn't literally just about punching; it's about being kid friendly and having the criminals/baddies being ultimately responsible for their getting hurt/incapacitated.

so it's really quite worrying/depressing to someone like me who from day 1 on this board has called attention to spidey's fighting style and the importance of fight scenes in action adventure movies (super hero movies are action adventure movies at the end of the day).

i can't handle a spider-man who jumps out the way all the time, or webs bad guys in the eyes all the time, or dodges and makes them lose balance all the time

similar to my comment about quips and how we all seem to enjoy tssm; tssm had a really good spider-man in terms of fighting style. so i just don't get why they can't emulate that. it was a kid-friendly cartoon..

 

[X Knight]

wait?? what's this about no punching??

 

[zipzip]

The punching aspect is whatever for me considering spidey using pure brute strength tends to never work in the longrun.If he isn't trying to punch low grade criminals because he is still a novice & doesn't trust his strength yet when pulling punches i'm fine but when a legitimate threat shows up like vulture I would hope this logic goes out the window.But again TASM & Civil war showed us Spidey can attack in a variety of ways with punching being almost a non factor.Now if they take the web kick all hell breaks loose lol *sidebar can impact webbing return please*

 

[ehh]

Obviously following the strict rules that the 90's animated series had to follow.

Everything they are describing falls in line with the MCU. If you were to describe Chris Evans' Captain America to be prior to seeing TFA, I would think the character is too cheesy and 2 dimensional. But they execute it so well and we've all come to love him. Well, most of us.

An angsty, rebellious teenager is what they went for in TASM and it didn't work. That's not what people want and it's not something that would stand the test of time. Spider-Man being young, innocent and kind of bratty fits in with the MCU and the whole "John Hughes" theme they are going for. Marvel Studios is also more "family friendly" so is anyone surprised?

The "no punches" line does throw me off a bit, but I'm not entirely sure if we should be taking that literally. I also don't think it really matters in the long run. IF he doesn't throw punches, we will probably see him fight using a mix of acrobatics, kicks, webbing, etc. Marvel films tend to feature good fight sequences.

 

[harryoscop]

wait?? what's this about no punching??

Tom said Spidey "never throws a punch' which correlates with him being a child. So we're probably going to see him acting like a cartoon i.e making people run into each other, web wedgies and so on. More of the same from TASM

 

[PeterBenParker]

it's not so much about the punching comments for me (I'm aware it bothers some other users, tho) it's the emphasis on his innocence and naivety just because of his age. They did it in Civil War (in the Blu-Ray, Tom himself said Peter had no idea what the fight was really about. He just wanted to impress Tony and was all wide-eyed about the Avengers), and the comments from Tom make it seem like they'll continue with it in Homecoming. I sincerely hope I'm proved wrong and Marvel tones down the 'but lol I'm a kid!!!' approach in the movie, but I suppose that waits to be seen.

The comments made previously (Russos liking Tom specifically for naivety when first casting him, coming-of-age tale, Feige/Tom/Russos emphasis on him being a kid, Tom Holland suggesting a 'darker path', Stark's relationship with Peter continuing the student and teacher tale, etc. etc.) that we may have to wait a few movies just to get the character we know and love in his truest form..if even that. They've skipped the 'origin story' so they can give us an origin story without actually dubbing it as such and it's started from Civil War.

We have a Spider-Man that was told, "With Great Power.." but has a long way to go in actually learning it so the whole "Spider-Boy" comment from Stark actually rings true, at least right now. If that perspective is indeed correct (and not 'hyperbole'), that negates his original origin story to me.

I like the Harry Potter approach because of getting to watch Tom Holland grow up on the big screen and come into his own as Peter/Spidey. Not sure I like it, however, if it means that the character will have to go through a few movies to actually be the character in his fullest.

As you said, it awaits to be seen and I'm giving Homecoming a shot regardless. t:

 

[harryoscop]

The comments made previously (Russos liking Tom specifically for naivety when first casting him, coming-of-age tale, Feige/Tom/Russos emphasis on him being a kid, Tom Holland suggesting a 'darker path', Stark's relationship with Peter continuing the student and teacher tale, etc. etc.) that we may have to wait a few movies just to get the character we know and love in his truest form..if even that. They've skipped the 'origin story' so they can give us an origin story without actually dubbing it as such and it's started from Civil War.

We have a Spider-Man that was told, "With Great Power.." but has a long way to go in actually learning it so the whole "Spider-Boy" comment from Stark actually rings true, at least right now. If that perspective is indeed correct (and not 'hyperbole'), that negates his original origin story to me.

I like the Harry Potter approach because of getting to watch Tom Holland grow up on the big screen and come into his own as Peter/Spidey. Not sure I like it, however, if it means that the character will have to go through a few movies to actually be the character in his fullest.

As you said, it awaits to be seen and I'm giving Homecoming a shot regardless. t:

A lot of fans thought Peter not learning responsibility until the end of TASM was bad. Wait till' they find out he won't be learning it until the third movie in the first trilogy.

 

[X Knight]

Tom said Spidey "never throws a punch' which correlates with him being a child. So we're probably going to see him acting like a cartoon i.e making people run into each other, web wedgies and so on. More of the same from TASM

ah. thanks.

that sounds........not so good........

but we'll see.

 

[Big Al]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!!!

A Spider-Man movie isn't a Spider-Man movie if he's not punching anyone. How come no one's losing it over this? If Sony said it everyone would be raging.

 

[Kurenai]

Great new article with Tom
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...nation-time-see-kid-945320?utm_source=twitter

One with Zendaya too. Pretty sure she's not MJ after reading it

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...s-zendaya-responds-casting-controversy-945316

What did she say differently that would dispute or prove the rumors...

Also this photoshoot is cute.

Editing this in:

The whole Zendaya auditioned multiple times thing people were running with is kind of gone now too since Tom said they cast her almost immediately after the screen test.

Although she could have auditioned before a few times before the screen test.

Interesting note that wasn't Spider-Man related, but it would have been cool to see Tom in Jurassic World 2.

Nothing was disproven, you don't take screen test/chemistry reads in your first audition, you audition and audition, and casting directors eliminate some people each time, and then when it's down to a few, they'll pick someone, if you're playing a love interest to the lead or a family member to the lead (that's integral to the story) they'll have you do chemistry reads so that the relationship is believable.

So Zendaya auditioned multiple times, and when it was time for her and other actresses to the the screen test/chemistry read, she played opposite of Tom really well and their chemistry was good enough where she was picked right off the bat.

Nope. But it does sound like she's playing a race bent character. My guess is Gwen Stacy but not a love interest with a possible Spider-Gwen movie.

Also, on the Peter as a kid thing. They shouldn't be basing all of his actions on the mere fact that he's a kid, but on Peter Parker as a kid.

I would die in a good way if she was playing a Gwen that ultimately turned into Spider-Gwen.

Ok, here's my theory:

Peter and Michelle consider each other to be weird. Through chance Michelle finds out that Peter is Spider-Man, forcing Peter to deal with her. They find out that they actually like each other and become non-sexual best friends.

I'd actually like that. Usually female leads are also love interests in superhero films. How about a friend instead?

Tom and Zendaya did a chemistry read that usually means their characters are romantically involved. Also a black female character being the best friend to a male character is not different, since usually black female characters are "forever alone" and are just "friends".

Awesome video I've really gotten fully on board with both of them

And call me crazy, but both of them kinda sounded awkward or hesitant or something when mentioning her character

Well in a sdcc interview video where Jon was revealing who the actors were playing, both Tom and Zendaya shared a look when Jon said Zendaya was playing Michelle so this has happened before.

~~
Editing this in:

Something that is contradictory is Zendaya says she's playing Michelle, but then said the call sheets they would get referred to everybody by fake names, and as we know, one of the call sheets were leaked and referred to her as Michelle ...so is she lying about being Michelle or about the call sheets doing fake names, either way b/c she's doing this photoshoot with Tom and not Laura Harrier, which proves even more she is the female lead, just as Kirsten and Emma were in their respective movies. Whether that means She's MJ, a new character, or an amalgamation of Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane who will steal Mary Jane's nickname is up for debate.

 

[Spidey_62]

Are punches really essential to Spider-Man?

The 90s show got to what the character was about and it didn't have many punches. Spectacular Spider-Man had a lot of punches and it got to what Spider-Man was about. I don't think punches have a correlation. If it feels like Spider-Man and it's true to Peter- great. That's what's important.

 

[PeterBenParker]

A lot of fans thought Peter not learning responsibility until the end of TASM was bad. Wait till' they find out he won't be learning it until the third movie in the first trilogy.

I think the perception will be different, honestly and that's OK because I want everyone to love the new Spidey series because Spider-Man needs to be (and feel) beloved again and at least with Marvel it'll have that going for it automatically.

May be a different Spider-Man than what we're used to but really, it's not that different compared to the others. Tobey was more Peter than Spidey (even in the suit). Andrew was like a concoction between early Ditko Peter (post Spider-bite) with a chip on his shoulder, Jim Stark, NPH's Peter (from TNAS) and a more recognized Spidey (IMO of course). Tom is too early to tell as it stands.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!!!

A Spider-Man movie isn't a Spider-Man movie if he's not punching anyone. How come no one's losing it over this? If Sony said it everyone would be raging.

Growing up on TAS, I'm OK with this but then again, I enjoyed TASM's style of Spidey in action so eh.

I'd reckon Spidey will throw lefts and rights when need be (just like Andrew's did).

 

[Big Al]

I think the perception will be different, honestly and that's OK because I want everyone to love the new Spidey series because Spider-Man needs to be (and feel) beloved again and at least with Marvel it'll have that going for it automatically.

May be a different Spider-Man than what we're used to but really, it's not that different compared to the others. Tobey was more Peter than Spidey (even in the suit). Andrew was like a concoction between early Ditko Peter (post Spider-bite) with a chip on his shoulder, Jim Stark, NPH's Peter (from TNAS) and a more recognized Spidey (IMO of course). Tom is too early to tell as it stands.



Growing up on TAS, I'm OK with this but then again, I enjoyed TASM's style of Spidey in action so eh.

I'd reckon Spidey will throw lefts and rights when need be (just like Andrew's did).

I would hope it's at least a last resort in this movie when he punches and then in the next ones he does it regularly. I honestly wanted a slightly more serious Spider-Man movie in the MCU, not Nolan dark but in tone with the Raimi movies with some of the serious aspects from TASM 1.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I would hope it's at least a last resort in this movie when he punches and then in the next ones he does it regularly.

Me personally, I think it should depend entirely on the situation and the character involved in said situation.

Someone like a random thug may not be worthy of a knuckle sandwich because Spidey can frustrate them with his quips and playful nature (not to forget his webbing) whereas someone like Rhino needs to be hit because despite his peanut sized brain, he is dangerous and needs to be dealt with differently. Shocker could fall into either category to me.

I'd imagine Vulture will probably be a bit of both, too. Spidey can try to apprehend him by taking apart his suit or making quips about his wrinkles (if he's unmasked) but also lay the smackdown on him if things intensify. We already know this Spidey is, at the very least, silly due to his childish behavior and so he's more into having fun (hence Tom's 'child friendly' comment)

I honestly wanted a slightly more serious Spider-Man movie in the MCU, not Nolan dark but in tone with the Raimi movies with some of the serious aspects from TASM 1.

I've always wanted the first film to be lighthearted and fun. Maybe it's because I wanted Peter/Spidey's dual life to be the focus but I always liked the idea of starting small and fun and building to something much more epic and serious with each movie. As Peter/Spidey gets more experienced and comfortable, so should whatever villain is donning on him next. Always up the ante for the hero to make it more challenging for 'em to overcome and make it that much more satisfying when the hero does prevail.

Easy way to do it could be this way:

• Vulture/Shocker
• Kraven/Mysterio/Scorpion/Lizard (2 of each)
• Doc Ock/Green Goblin/Venom (1)

 

[Krystal]

I love it when an actor gives some info that they think the fans will like and doesn't realize that they hate the idea.

 

[Big Al]

Me personally, I think it should depend entirely on the situation and the character involved in said situation.

Someone like a random thug may not be worthy of a knuckle sandwich because Spidey can frustrate them with his quips and playful nature (not to forget his webbing) whereas someone like Rhino needs to be hit because despite his peanut sized brain, he is dangerous and needs to be dealt with differently. Shocker could fall into either category to me.

I'd imagine Vulture will probably be a bit of both, too. Spidey can try to apprehend him by taking apart his suit or making quips about his wrinkles (if he's unmasked) but also lay the smackdown on him if things intensify. We already know this Spidey is, at the very least, silly due to his childish behavior and so he's more into having fun (hence Tom's 'child friendly' comment)



I've always wanted the first film to be lighthearted and fun. Maybe it's because I wanted Peter/Spidey's dual life to be the focus but I always liked the idea of starting small and fun and building to something much more epic and serious with each movie. As Peter/Spidey gets more experienced and comfortable, so should whatever villain is donning on him next. Always up the ante for the hero to make it more challenging for 'em to overcome and make it that much more satisfying when the hero does prevail.

Easy way to do it could be this way:

• Vulture/Shocker
• Kraven/Mysterio/Scorpion/Lizard (2 of each)
• Doc Ock/Green Goblin/Venom (1)

I can agree with what you're saying. I kinda hope Spider-Man is more a street level hero in the MCU than to quickly make him have to deal with near apocalyptic situations like most other heroes.

 

[harryoscop]

Me personally, I think it should depend entirely on the situation and the character involved in said situation.

Someone like a random thug may not be worthy of a knuckle sandwich because Spidey can frustrate them with his quips and playful nature (not to forget his webbing) whereas someone like Rhino needs to be hit because despite his peanut sized brain, he is dangerous and needs to be dealt with differently. Shocker could fall into either category to me.

I'd imagine Vulture will probably be a bit of both, too. Spidey can try to apprehend him by taking apart his suit or making quips about his wrinkles (if he's unmasked) but also lay the smackdown on him if things intensify. We already know this Spidey is, at the very least, silly due to his childish behavior and so he's more into having fun (hence Tom's 'child friendly' comment)



I've always wanted the first film to be lighthearted and fun. Maybe it's because I wanted Peter/Spidey's dual life to be the focus but I always liked the idea of starting small and fun and building to something much more epic and serious with each movie. As Peter/Spidey gets more experienced and comfortable, so should whatever villain is donning on him next. Always up the ante for the hero to make it more challenging for 'em to overcome and make it that much more satisfying when the hero does prevail.

Easy way to do it could be this way:

• Vulture/Shocker
• Kraven/Mysterio/Scorpion/Lizard (2 of each)
• Doc Ock/Green Goblin/Venom (1)

Y'know what? if that's what they do, then I have no problem with it. Essentially classic Ditko Spidey. I just hope the naive, gullible BS from Civil War is turned way down in this movie. A little naivety is reasonable, all teenage versions of Spidey were a bit naive. But they were still responsible and noble.

I'm starting to think some of this material was written for a Matt Lintz-esque 13-14 year-old Spidey to be honest.

 

[Repulsor Blast]

the problem with tom's comment is that it suggests that spider-man doesn't do any offensive physical attacks. this is what is worrying.

the line about making it so the criminals getting hurt is never directly from him means kicks, throws, etc. are out as well...

that's why i'm pretty bummed about it all.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I kinda hope Spider-Man is more a street level hero in the MCU than to quickly make him have to deal with near apocalyptic situations like most other heroes.

Me too. Makes little to no sense why this Spidey, especially for his age, would be going up against Thanos and I'm hoping he's not involved in Infinity War. I'm in the minority there, but he's always been more a street level loner hero and that's how I'd like him to remain for a little bit.

Can he help The Avengers? Sure, if they really need him, but otherwise stick to what works.

Y'know what? if that's what they do, then I have no problem with it. Essentially classic Ditko Spidey.

I just hope the naive, gullible BS from Civil War is turned way down in this movie. A little naivety is reasonable, all teenage versions of Spidey were a bit naive. But they were still responsible and noble.

As do I.

I'm starting to think some of this material was written for a Matt Lintz-esque 13-14 year-old Spidey to be honest.

It's possible. Though Russos liking Holland for his naivety is something else, too. Maybe we were always meant to get this kind of Spidey when the deal was done, due to the late inclusion?

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Obviously following the strict rules that the 90's animated series had to follow.

Everything they are describing falls in line with the MCU. If you were to describe Chris Evans' Captain America to be prior to seeing TFA, I would think the character is too cheesy and 2 dimensional. But they execute it so well and we've all come to love him. Well, most of us.

An angsty, rebellious teenager is what they went for in TASM and it didn't work. That's not what people want and it's not something that would stand the test of time. Spider-Man being young, innocent and kind of bratty fits in with the MCU and the whole "John Hughes" theme they are going for. Marvel Studios is also more "family friendly" so is anyone surprised?

The "no punches" line does throw me off a bit, but I'm not entirely sure if we should be taking that literally. I also don't think it really matters in the long run. IF he doesn't throw punches, we will probably see him fight using a mix of acrobatics, kicks, webbing, etc. Marvel films tend to feature good fight sequences.

Are punches really essential to Spider-Man?

The 90s show got to what the character was about and it didn't have many punches. Spectacular Spider-Man had a lot of punches and it got to what Spider-Man was about. I don't think punches have a correlation. If it feels like Spider-Man and it's true to Peter- great. That's what's important.

My dudes. Agreed with all of this.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I gotta say Ehh the newbie has been one of the most level headed ane articulated new posters around here and has been a breath of fresh air.