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World Spidey's actual strength level?

Odin's Lapdog said:
spideys as strong as he needs to be...

a lot of people whine about him being tagged by smaller weaker humans yet they are happy to see him fighting the hulk and happily boasting that he could kill the hulk if he really wanted to, what trollocks.

to even go up against someone who is at the very least 10 TIMES stronger than you is craziness, have you ever met someone 10 times stronger than you, would you even try against them?

if anything i preferred spidey when he wasn't heavy hitting and could get tagged by humans. Spidey should only beat stronger foes by out witting them which he doesn't seem to be doing anymore and he's going for just brute tactics which isn't the spidey i know and love.

This is how i see it. Hulk is obviously stronger than spidey but that doesn't rule out spidey being able to cause some damage. Given their respective abilities, it is possible for spidey to throw hulk around a bit and actually land in a few hits, brining home some pain.
You can get a 15 year old boy and if he were to put enough force and strength in a punch and hit a well trained boxer in the face, its going to hurt. The same logic applies in the spidey/hulk situation, especially considering that both their respective powers are in the same category of being enhanced and super.
 
In the early days, it was said Spidey had the strength of ten men (or more). Then camed the references to having "the proportionate strength of a spider", then the "10 tons" standard.

Seems he keeps getting more and more powerful.

This, of course, goes completely against one of the core concepts of the character: he's an underdog.

The funny thing is, it seems that the more powerful he gets, the easier he's beaten by F-list-types like Morlun.
 
One more thing: This will kind of end the debate for anyone who cares about common sense and facts but......Let us not forget that as much as Daredevil trains with fighting styles and such, Spider-man has had so much experience that he invented his own fighting style.

Even if he were to lower the force of his hits, and if he allowed himself to be hit...He still has the skill of a fighter. And because he made his own style, it's nothing that DD could simply predict. You can tell what a boxer is going to do, or a martial artist whatever.....But the reason why styles like capoeira and drunken martial arts are good, are because you DON'T know what to block and what to dodge.
 
ChineseFooD said:
One more thing: This will kind of end the debate for anyone who cares about common sense and facts but......Let us not forget that as much as Daredevil trains with fighting styles and such, Spider-man has had so much experience that he invented his own fighting style.

Even if he were to lower the force of his hits, and if he allowed himself to be hit...He still has the skill of a fighter. And because he made his own style, it's nothing that DD could simply predict. You can tell what a boxer is going to do, or a martial artist whatever.....But the reason why styles like capoeira and drunken martial arts are good, are because you DON'T know what to block and what to dodge.

Thats the same point I always try to bring up in the typical Cap or Wolverine or DD vs. Spidey threads. There is NO WAY to predict what Spider-man is going to do in a fight. He's invented his own fighting style and it's completely unpredictable because it's moves only he can pull off.
 
James"007"Bond said:
This is how i see it. Hulk is obviously stronger than spidey but that doesn't rule out spidey being able to cause some damage. Given their respective abilities, it is possible for spidey to throw hulk around a bit and actually land in a few hits, brining home some pain.
You can get a 15 year old boy and if he were to put enough force and strength in a punch and hit a well trained boxer in the face, its going to hurt. The same logic applies in the spidey/hulk situation, especially considering that both their respective powers are in the same category of being enhanced and super.
doing damage and claiming outright that you can kill such a person if you wanted to is completely different.

a boxer isn't TEN TIMES STRONGER than a 15 yr old boy. it's really quite a different situation.

spidey always punches well above his weight. I'm sorry but if someone could only bench press 8kg and they came to take you on, i think you'd *****slap them off the planet, no matter how fast they were.
 
If spidey declared that he could kil the hulk then its possible that he could but by no means could he do it toe 2 toe in a physical fight. Hulk and spidey have been around for a long time and I think its fair to say that hulk is an opponent thats easier than most to study and to be made aware of his strengths and weaknesses. Spidey killing hulk would be purely on a scientific level or he could do it the easy way and kill Banner but at the end of the day, its all relative. There's no way Marvel'll have spidey ina hulk comic declaring he could kill him, thats just sking for unecessary trouble but in a spidey comic, fans of spidey are more open to the idea that it could be possible.
 
Odin's Lapdog said:
doing damage and claiming outright that you can kill such a person if you wanted to is completely different.

a boxer isn't TEN TIMES STRONGER than a 15 yr old boy. it's really quite a different situation.

spidey always punches well above his weight. I'm sorry but if someone could only bench press 8kg and they came to take you on, i think you'd *****slap them off the planet, no matter how fast they were.

It doesn't quite work the way you seem to think it does. Punching someone and bench pressing things are very different. For example, guys who can benchpress 500 kilo's in all likelyhood are going to output less energy than a trained martial artist who benchpresses some 100+ Kg's. For starters, you have different muscle groups and short instant energy bursts use the muscles differently than say picking up a large object. Thats why a sprinter does plyometric exercises while a weight lifter may do isometrics instead. And again there is a difference between muscle mass and muscle density. So mass/strength isn't as important as you might think.

With punches relying on technique, conditioning, explosive power and SPEED more than how much you benchpress. Spidey is extremely fast, the faster you are the more energy you have and the more your relativistic mass is. So speed does in fact make up for any strength you have. Thats why a bullet weighing very little will cause so much damage. You also have to consider area of contact, spidey's fists are relatively tiny compared to the hulk, therefore his energy output is extremely focused when hitting the hulk especially if you consider he probably only uses two knuckles. While the hulk's larger contact area spreads out the energy more so its less focused damage. You then have to consider other things that make up a punch. For starters, punching in space is going to be ineffective since you have no real mass to work from. When you punch on earth you use the ground to push off from to give you a lot of your energy. Spidey's power in jumping helps him in this but really more down to his ability to bond with things. For example there are bugs that can resist an ant's strength despite being far smaller and nowhere near as strong, due to their ability to electromagnetically bond to its surrounding area. It in effect 'becomes' part of that object. So what the ant is really doing is trying to move say a plant that masses far more than itself than the actual bug. Spidey has the same bonding ability, so his strength is as if he masses the entire ground when he is punching as he becomes 'part' of it.

Then there is technique, martial artists work on the perfectly balanced punch to gain proper contact and precise movement of the muscles/bone to get complete efficiency. Spidey has a perfect equalibrium, so he already has this ability even if he hasn't been trained.

Also with regards to his strength, spidey in the master planner arc I believe states the weight on his back was that of a train, a train cab can weigh in excess of 80 tons. On his back with zero leverage (potential energy) requires a far greater feat of strength to lift it off. For example, benchpressing 100 kilo's is nothing like getting it off your back while lying down. Spidey obviously has muscle potential that he uses from time to time that is a great deal above his normal strength. For example he has to live with this strenght of every moment of every day. So he is CONSTANTLY underusing it to be safe, even when he fights he always pulls his punches. If you do not use your strength on a regular basis, it is a lot harder to use it when you want, your muscles fatigue and just simply aren't used to it. So its understandable he has problems in accessing it, he doesn't even do any training, he never pushes himself really in terms of exercize. Also a lot of it could be mental because his muscles are obviously entirely changed so the brain hasn't been trained to use them properly. As the brain need's just as much influence in using your new muscles as the muscles themselves need to be trained. If you stuck a brain in a body builders body then you wouldn't know how to handle yourself.

The Hulk only weighs a ton in anycase, so spidey has even at his lowest strength the ability to throw the hulk around like a ragdoll even if it does no damage.

So in summary, spidey's potential for strength/speed/etc. is far greater than what he uses/need's but why bother exploring that when you can have spidey give birth to himself, or die and get reborn. :confused:
 
i'm taking this all into account but then all this could be turned on its head to look at the extremeties of the events that the hulk has also had to endure.

for every feat of strength that spidey has shown to be quite awesome, the hulk has shown feats of strength and durability that make spidey's efforts seem quite tame.

the fact still remains that spidey isn't a trained martial artist. again one can say that he doesn't need to be since he's more agile than any acrobat yet he's recieved no official training, it's in his blood. Personally i don't think anyone who hasn't recieved any official training can punch to their optimal potential, hulk included. he may devise a way to punch that is perhaps better than most normal humans but relative to a trained boxer or martial artist, it will most likely be less effective.

sure spidey has plenty of potential but he's limited and marvel has a problem with limiting its limited characters, it's a universe where anyone can really have a go at anyone else and have a means of winning, there isn't much stability in some of these matters and it gets annoying, especially with the more favourable characters of spidey, cap, wolverine who all have their limitations but due to favourable writing seem to get away with murder.

a spidey hulk all out fight would go along the lines of his morlun battle although it wouldn't take as long since the hulk wouldn't need to hold out in order to get his substinence and parker wouldn't be able to find a means of physically taking him on. And here again the hulk's speed is being seriously underestimated, it's sadly undershown but he's really fast when he needs to be.

sure spidey can put up a fight, i don't mind that but openly saying he could kill him is just plain ridiculous.

i'm sorry but if someone was only able to pick up 8kgs, no matter how well trained they were, if they started on me, i'd pummel them into the ground, i don't care how strong or fast they are. It's not even like spidey strategically places 90% of his blows anywho, most of the time he's hitting the face looking for the quick knock out.


i mean listen to this for another example, when he fought wolverine in berlin, wolverine implied that spidey could kill him by breaking his neck if he used all his strenght, meaning that one of the world's strongest materials could be destroyed by a class 10 being, i mean what trollocks is that, :o
 
James"007"Bond said:
If spidey declared that he could kil the hulk then its possible that he could but by no means could he do it toe 2 toe in a physical fight. Hulk and spidey have been around for a long time and I think its fair to say that hulk is an opponent thats easier than most to study and to be made aware of his strengths and weaknesses. Spidey killing hulk would be purely on a scientific level or he could do it the easy way and kill Banner but at the end of the day, its all relative. There's no way Marvel'll have spidey ina hulk comic declaring he could kill him, thats just sking for unecessary trouble but in a spidey comic, fans of spidey are more open to the idea that it could be possible.
well the digger being he fought was supposed to be close the hulk strength and he took him out toe to toe, and i think in the context he meant toe to toe as well.

i'm pretty sure he didn't mean it in any scientific manner when he said it otherwise i wouldn't bother arguing it, there are plenty of ways of gaining a victory over the hulk but killing him in battle is very far fetched in my eyes.

there shouldn't be comic differentials, it's all one universe, what applies in one book should again apply in another otherwise what is the point?

spidey is the ultimate yo yo character, at least wolverine gets a good decking every once in a while but spidey acts like the sun shines out of his ass taking on people across the spread.

his upper level of physical bashing should be around scorpion level who i would have thought to be around twice or three times his strength. enemies above that strength he should need to use his speed and wits to outsmart and outmanouevre to gain a victory.

saying he could stomp the hulk is just too far fetched.
 
Odin's Lapdog said:
there shouldn't be comic differentials, it's all one universe, what applies in one book should again apply in another otherwise what is the point?

Well unfortunately my Nigerian brethren, thats the way Marvel operates and has been this way for quite some time. Each book focusing on Marvel's respective characters often taylor preference to a character regardless of its far-fetched innacuracies.
 

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