First Avenger Cap's Power Level

[Infinity9999x]

I had the idea from this thread over the long conversation Roch and I were having over in the costume thread.

Basically, it comes down to the thoughts on the power level of Cap, either Ultimate or 616. Now, I personally wouldn't mind if they went with an Ultimate level Cap, but some don't like this idea (and I can understand why.)

However, once Roach and I started discussing the powers of 616 Cap, I came across some interesting info.

Cap is commonly called a "peak" human. A person who, in all areas of athletics, achieves the maximum a human body could do. Now, the only real difference of Ultimate Cap and 616 Cap is their strength level. Ultimate Cap is listed as being able to lift 2 tons (4000lbs). Besides that though, Ultimate Cap is only listed as being able to run 35mph, and have quickness, agility, and reflexes greater than any Olympic athlete. Something 616 Cap also shares.

Now, if we take into account the "peak human" powers of Cap, I found that he may actually not be much different from his Ultimate counterpart at all. The current world record for the bench press is 1075lbs, or a little more than half a ton. Now, going off the fact that Cap should be "peak human" he should be able to bench this much. However, this is only bench pressing. In the stats of Ultimate Cap, it only said he could lift up to 2tons. It didn't specify if he was only upper body lifting, or using his legs.

If we assume that this stat is a full body lift (allowing the use of his legs and back into the lift) then 616 Cap is obviously going to be able to lift more than 1000lbs. This could put him closer to 1,500lbs, maybe more and if you add in the adrenaline factor, it could bump him up to 2000lbs or 2,500lbs, and again possibly more.

It's not out of the realm of possibility, going off the numbers we've established, that Cap could possibly reach the 2ton mark as his Ultimate counterpart has, if we really go by the numbers of the "peak" humans of today.

So in short, what do you guys think? I know there is a big pro and anti Ultimate group on here, but it might just be possible that 616 Cap isn't actually that much weaker than his Ultimate counterpart.

 

[Rage]

I think based on what we've seen in TIH that Cap will have "Super" strength and will be more than human perfection. If they went with Ultimate Cap's power levels I would be fine... I just don't want to see the Super-Running anymore...that ***** is goofy!!

 

[roach]

I didnt see any evidence of super strength or speed in TIH. Go google Usain Bolt and see how fast he runs and imagine him running next to people running at average speed

 

[3dman27]

tho it is panned the cap tv movie had an answer for this
the serum unlockedthe full latent ability of steve rogers to 100%ofhuman abilites, in the 1940's that meant olympic levels today it means super-human

 

[roach]

I love the tv show...but he was pretty much a male tv Wonder woman

 

[Infinity9999x]

I love the tv show...but he was pretty much a male tv Wonder woman

Well really, as I said above, it's not that improbable to think that 616 Cap may actually reach Ultimate Cap level.

I mean, look at the stuff those guys can do in the Strongman competitions. I saw guys pressing a jeep. And that's just a normal person.

Really, when we think about this, if Cap can achieve 100% of human potential in all athletic areas, that means that not only will his upper body be able to lift the maximum amount of weight possible, his lower body will be able to as well.

The guy who benched 1075lbs probably can't squat that much, because he probably works on his upper body much more. Cap will have the combined strength of a top lifter in both, and going off that, it's not impossible to think that he could reach the 2ton area.

 

[roach]

Well really, as I said above, it's not that improbable to think that 616 Cap may actually reach Ultimate Cap level.

I mean, look at the stuff those guys can do in the Strongman competitions. I saw guys pressing a jeep. And that's just a normal person.

Really, when we think about this, if Cap can achieve 100% of human potential in all athletic areas, that means that not only will his upper body be able to lift the maximum amount of weight possible, his lower body will be able to as well.

The guy who benched 1075lbs probably can't squat that much, because he probably works on his upper body much more. Cap will have the combined strength of a top lifter in both, and going off that, it's not impossible to think that he could reach the 2ton area.

your use of common sense and logic has swayed me...I agree

 

[Infinity9999x]

your use of common sense and logic has swayed me...I agree

Cool

It's interesting, because I'm kind of a health fitness nut, so when I started reading up on the peak human thing, I started thinking.

Originally, his stats from way back when Cap was conceived, they had Cap being able to bench around 500lbs to 800lbs, which, at the time was thought to be the limit a human body could bench without being "superhuman." But since people's abilities have increased dramatically since then, it stands to reason that Cap should meet them, since he is the peak human.

It was just interesting to me to see how much humans have been able to accomplish in terms of strength over the years.

 

[roach]

this should be Cap.....
1)Mike Tyson's punch
2)Usain Bolt's speed
3)Strongest man's strength
4)Agility of Tony Jaa

wrapped in the body of a UFC Champion fighter

 

[Infinity9999x]

this should be Cap.....
1)Mike Tyson's punch
2)Usain Bolt's speed
3)Strongest man's strength
4)Agility of Tony Jaa

wrapped in the body of a UFC Champion fighter

And also, when you think about it, each of these people had to train extensively in their very specialized area of athletics to get to the ability they are at.

Cap possesses the top abilities of all of them. Now, every time you do something like punch, or do a sprint, you're using more than just the obvious muscle group. For example, having a stronger upper body actually helps you in a sprint.

So, now that Cap not only has Usain Bolt's speed, but also the power of the strongest man in the world, he may actually be faster than Usain Bolt. In short, his amazing abilities in all facets would word together, and may make him actually a bit above normal human levels in a sprint/lift/agility/ ect.

 

[roach]

yes you are right he should punch harder than Tyson and be faster than Bolt

 

[Superhero 101]

From what i have seen he should be really agile fast and strong maybe like green goblin strong from Spiderman 1.

 

[Webhead2006]

should be interesting to see how they go about this.

 

[Drakon]

Just to get it out of the way early:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!

 

[Shockdingo]

Wow, great breaking down of the stats, I didn't even think of things like Mr. Bolt's speed or the top level benchpressing guy. I always hear "peak human" and say well it's the absolute upper limit of what humans can do without being Spider-man, and then I forget that "normal" humans can be pretty darn spectacular in their own right.

 

[3dman27]

this should be Cap.....
1)Mike Tyson's punch
2)Usain Bolt's speed
3)Strongest man's strength
4)Agility of Tony Jaa

wrapped in the body of a UFC Champion fighter

i see the logic

 

[roach]

Just to get it out of the way early:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!

not to derail or anything but I love your sig

also Bolt set another record today 200 meters in 19.19 seconds

 

[Infinity9999x]

Wow, great breaking down of the stats, I didn't even think of things like Mr. Bolt's speed or the top level benchpressing guy. I always hear "peak human" and say well it's the absolute upper limit of what humans can do without being Spider-man, and then I forget that "normal" humans can be pretty darn spectacular in their own right.

Thank you And I thought the same thing. It was interesting, as I started looking the stats up, to see how far we've come in terms of athletic records. It's logical to see why they originally had Cap at only being able to bench press 500 to 800ish pounds, because at the time, that was what was thought to be the most a human body could do. It's kind of cool seeing how things have changed, like way back when people thought it was impossible to run a sub 4 minute mile.

But really, when you take into account that Cap should be the pinnacle of human achievement in all these areas, you realize how really powerful the guy could be. Sure, he still can't lift 10 tons like Spidey, but it's still pretty darn impressive.

Just to get it out of the way early:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!

Haha, man what a great show. They should make a movie of it....without Fox

not to derail or anything but I love your sig

also Bolt set another record today 200 meters in 19.19 seconds

Holy crap. That makes Cap one fast man.

 

[roach]

I didnt really look into what Cap should be capable of doing until I started writing my fan fic about his training and his first mission (Coming Soon Codename:Captain America...nice plug)...things like being ambidexterous, photographic memory, higher developed mind which means he can learn complex tasks in a fraction of the time it takes normal folks to learn.

 

[Spider-Vader]

this should be Cap.....
1)Mike Tyson's punch
2)Usain Bolt's speed
3)Strongest man's strength
4)Agility of Tony Jaa

wrapped in the body of a UFC Champion fighter

That's exactly what he should be... except a little better in all of those.

 

[chaoticreign]

Technically a peak human can't bench 1075. That world record was an equiped lift. He was wearing a bench shirt which isn't the same as a raw lift. And anyone who thinks the guy that did it must just work upper body is ignorant to the entire sport of powerlifting.

Powerlifting is competed with 3 lifts. These are the bench press, the deadlift, and the squat. And the world records all hover around the same 1000lb-ish limit. You're just drawing random conclusions to try and power cap up. And there is no "adrenaline factor" when we're talking about weights like this. When you're under something that heavy it isn't exactly a dull experience.

And regardless, I think Cap should be around an 600-800 raw bench. Cap really isn't about feats of strength. He isn't spiderman, he won't be lifting any cars up over his head. He's a top tier human. Acrobatics, agility, and skill combined with peak strength and perfect technique. Not super strength or any other crap.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Just to get it out of the way early:

IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!

Thank you.

I think what we saw in TIH was about right, maybe amped up a bit.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Technically a peak human can't bench 1075. That world record was an equiped lift. He was wearing a bench shirt which isn't the same as a raw lift. And anyone who thinks the guy that did it must just work upper body is ignorant to the entire sport of powerlifting.

Powerlifting is competed with 3 lifts. These are the bench press, the deadlift, and the squat. And the world records all hover around the same 1000lb-ish limit. You're just drawing random conclusions to try and power cap up. And there is no "adrenaline factor" when we're talking about weights like this. When you're under something that heavy it isn't exactly a dull experience.

And regardless, I think Cap should be around an 600-800 raw bench. Cap really isn't about feats of strength. He isn't spiderman, he won't be lifting any cars up over his head. He's a top tier human. Acrobatics, agility, and skill combined with peak strength and perfect technique. Not super strength or any other crap.

Ah, you're right, I forgot about bench shirts. Looking at it now, it seems the highest raw bench is 715.

And if you read my post, I never said he didn't work his lower body. I said he would obviously work his upper body more than his lower body, because you would have to if you want to reach those kind of numbers in the bench. Now, of course you can't simply leave you lower body, since when benching, or in any workout for that matter, you use your entire body.

But, if you honestly think the guy who set the world bench record worked out his legs as much as his upper body...well, I'm sorry, but you would be the one who's ignorant. To thus enhance my point,

Kennelly trains as often as 10 times in a week and hits some type of bench press training 7-8 times a week. Kennelly began lifting with his legs only because his bench had plateaued due to a weaker lower body. Ryan has had as much as 1,300 lb (590 kg) on the bar for a bench (5 board press failed).

Kennelly happens to be the guy who set the current bench record.

And thank you for the information about power-lifting, but I've power-lifted myself, so I know how it works.

And what do you mean there's no adrenaline factor? Of course your adrenaline helps you. When you have an audience and your adrenline get's pumping under those weights you're definitely going to be able to lift more than if you were alone in your basement.

Now, while a peak human may not be able to hit 1000lbs without a bench shirt, Cap certainly could, because, as I've said before, Cap is peak human in all areas. Kennelly focused only on a specific upper body lift, and he eventually became the best in that lift. Cap has the upper body strength of Kennelly, as well as the strength of every other peak power-lifter in his best weight class.

Since every workout draws power from all parts of your body, this is going to allow Cap to lift more than any of these power-lifters could in their designated area. Imagine if Kennelly had the lower body strength of the best squatter in the world, can you imagine how much his bench would go up?

That's why Cap can reach superhuman levels. Essentially, when you take a human, and make them reach their athletic potential in all specific areas of athletics (and it usually takes people a lifetime to reach their 100% potential in one area) it's going to make him more powerful than any one person could be, because each area of his abilities complements the other.

He's going to be faster than Bolt because he has the raw power of all the best power-lifters in the world, while still retaining amazing flexibility. He's going to be able to lift more than the best bench-presser in the world, because he will also have peak strength in all other muscle groups in his body, ect. ect.

 

[Turtles]

And regardless, I think Cap should be around an 600-800 raw bench. Cap really isn't about feats of strength. He isn't spiderman, he won't be lifting any cars up over his head. He's a top tier human. Acrobatics, agility, and skill combined with peak strength and perfect technique. Not super strength or any other crap.

Agreed, no more than 800 pounds. I would really hate to see people take away the emphasis that has always been placed on Cap's brains, agility, acrobatic skills, shield etc., just so they can turn him into another boring hero with super strength. We have enough heroes who rely solely on their super strength, we don't need one more.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Agreed, no more than 800 pounds. I would really hate to see people take away the emphasis that has always been placed on Cap's brains, agility, acrobatic skills, shield etc., just so they can turn him into another boring hero with super strength. We have enough heroes who rely solely on their super strength, we don't need one more.

How, in any part of this thread, have I expressed the idea that I want to downplay Cap's intelligence in favor of his abilities? I'm simply pointing out the fact that Cap's abilities may be higher than we previously.