Stargate SG-1/Atlantis/Universe

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GhostPoet said:
Wait, so people are bashing the show because the story isn't simple enough? :P
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No people are bashing the show because it was not well executed and saying that it's because of the interesting parts of the story.
 
Malice.... :wow:

for me, from the starting ramage by Knepper (and that rather cliche'd but cool shot of him walking out the smoke) to Carlyle just walking up and airing out Simeon's skull... this was a damn good episode....

Lots of tension... as i've ignored a lot of spoilers, there were a fair few moments where i thought main-ish characters were gonners...
 
Another good episode. Although I was surprised by the ending, simply because I didn't expect that person to bite it so soon.
 
It started out good but the more it progressed the more I was disappointed.

How did Simeon escape with a small arsenal. Why was he watching Scott, Greer and Rush just STANDING there and not take a shot? For that matter why didn't they just send a bunch o kinos over to the planet to track him properly? Heck they could've strapped some c4 to a Kino and use it like a bomb once they found him. And of course, why have Ginn begin a romance with Eli if you're gonna kill her ONE EPISODE later. Poor girl died offscreen in a wheelchair that wasn't even hers on an alien planet.
 
Why would they want to blow Simeon up when they needed him for intel?

Rush was awesome with his plan to kill Simeon. I felt like Rush could have killed him easily with the gun but decided to go with trampling him to death. Cold blooded mofo.
 
Yeah that was a crazy. I'm still shocked he's dead, only because I thought they'd keep him around for a while.
 
Asgard said:
Why would they want to blow Simeon up when they needed him for intel ?
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A guy like Simeon would have said nothing. He wanted to get captured just to escape again & would keep trying until he got away with it
 
Why would they want to blow Simeon up when they needed him for intel?
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If they needed him for intel why didn't Homeworld command report back the second that Ginn told them the truth? Ginn spent what, hours upon hours to let them know that hey... SIMEON KNOWS SOMETHING! Yeah sure, it took me an hour just to type that sentence.

He should've never had the time to get an arsenal together and plan his escape (not to mention murder two women) once Ginn made it to Earth.

And why is it that Earth is so scared of the Lucian Alliance? Are we not still talking about the race that defeated Goa'ulds, Replicators, Wraiths and Ori? Aren't the Lucian Alliance liittle kids compared to those guys?
 
the difference between the Goa'uld, Ori, Replicators and the Wraith to the LA is that the first four races are the type that you can see coming in thier amarda....

the LA is the sort of group that would load up a group of cargo ships with Naquadah bombs and cloak themselves over a Earth city..... first warning we'd get is that city being wiped out
 
First of all, all the races except the Replicators maybe, would love to do an underhanded trick like that. Second of all, why would the LA do that? What could they possibly have to profit? And they're not ones for suicide missions either way. The Lucians were always a squabbling bunch of mercenaries and thugs who were not really into empire building but more into profit.

Suddenly they are a major threat to earth with its fleet (at least 5) of Daedalus class ships with Asgard technology, Atlantis and the Antarctic weapons platform. Plus Earth is allied with the Jaffa, who control most of the ships and hardware the System Lords left AND the Ori.

Of course, we can't have a Stargate show without Earth facing some kind of threat, even when it's millions of light years away. Nevermind that it's a threat based on collective amnesia, since we shouldn't remember that at this point in time humans can pretty much kick the ass of anything of almost Ascension high power levels.
 
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I can't stop watching this show, for better or worse.
I'm mad the killed Ginn, I'm mad they're not exploiting this Lucian Alliance thing but just burning up the potential conflicts. Robert Knepper is the guy that almost single handedly redeemed Heroes. This is... laughable, to say the least.

That said, the truck Rush used was pretty awesome. And they are handling Chloe's storyline in a way I can get behind. I like that even Scott has some cajones now. It's too bad that he's just now being an intermediary between Rush and Young, y'know, when they're not trying to kill each other.

I visciously enjoyed the conflict that the first season had, and I thought the LA would have been a great way to keep that war-within-a-ship going while the s1 characters are all on the same page, more or less. In-ship conflict on top of out-of-ship conflict is awesome. You can do bottle shows and have competing factions, it just... ugh. Brilliant potential. I could care less about Destiny's mission honestly. Is it interesting when we start to relate things like pre-Big Bang Intelligence and the Aliens that made the star and planet that TJ's baby is on? Yeah, sure. Is the potential for some super powerful SGU aliens interesting? Yeah. But on its own, the mission is silly, almost entirely an intellectual exercise, and, to be honest, few, if any, of the crew are useful at all in that mission. Really just the ones we see, everyone else can go home. Even now, since, y'know, we have control of the ship's systems.

I'm rolling around, once again, in a Science Fiction series' wasted potential. It's almost as bad as Voyager.
 
Another fantastic episode. I was sad to see Ginn killed off and I thought it was kind of a wasted use of a good actor (Knepper) for the time he was on the show.

Now that so many SG soldiers died, I hope we get to see more integration of the Lucian Alliance people with the SG crew. It really bugs me that they spend most of their time locked up and doing nothing.

I was also hoping they would kill one of the alien dinos and see if it was a viable food source. I knew what Rush had planned when they panned to the herd of alien dinos and then back to Simeon.
 
I think the LA are far more deadly than any other thread Earth has faced...simply because they are not an empire like the Goa'uld, Wraith or even the Replicators. The LA has no central homeworlds and I think that's the key...now centralization...they are spread all over but always in contact. It's almost like the whole terrorist thing nowadays, only the cells communicate with each other most of the time. Look how hard it's been for us to shut them down...and yet if you look at something like the Nazi's...a centralized army, they were easier to take out than the terrorist nowdays. WWII didn't take that many years...but the terrorist nowdays, it could take decades.

Sorry to ramble...but I think the LA is really like that...which is why they are more dangerous.
 
GhostPoet said:
I think the LA are far more deadly than any other thread Earth has faced...simply because they are not an empire like the Goa'uld, Wraith or even the Replicators. The LA has no central homeworlds and I think that's the key...now centralization...they are spread all over but always in contact. It's almost like the whole terrorist thing nowadays, only the cells communicate with each other most of the time. Look how hard it's been for us to shut them down...and yet if you look at something like the Nazi's...a centralized army, they were easier to take out than the terrorist nowdays. WWII didn't take that many years...but the terrorist nowdays, it could take decades.

Sorry to ramble...but I think the LA is really like that...which is why they are more dangerous.
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I think the word you're looking for is "guerilla."

We took the Japanese out in WWII because they had frontlines we can take out, and centralized command centers (and cities) we can bomb. The imperial Japanese felt strongly about their superiority where they would take us on head on most of the time...same as the Goa'uld. Even though both groups (fictional or otherwise) would try subterfuge, it was mostly for the purposes of intelligence, and/or to weaken some part of our structure where their main forces can then attack more freely.

The LA can then be compared to the Vietnamese and the Taliban. They're more willing to sacrifice themselves in guerilla action, because they KNOW that they'd never win against us head on. This is why any intelligence against them is very vital. To that end, we might not even know what planets/clans within planets are aligned with the LA.

PS: I love people who argue about things (e.g. TV shows) they claim they'd rather ignore, simply to prove how much "smarter" they are than those that don't think the same as them. It pollutes the discussions about the situations within the show, and it becomes essentially a debate about artistry and an exercise in how much more "capable" the negative side feels they are over the whole crew of people who put together the show. Pointless and very "*****ey." You might have a point in the end, but that point is better-served being put up in a review--if you have the medium at hand. Either that, or go find a film aesthetics thread.

I've long held Smallville in little regard, and I've posted there maybe once in the past couple of years, and I posted because of the episode "Homecoming," which was brilliant. I used to have this exact issue with people that treated Heroes the same, up to the point where I started to agree with them--and stopped posting in the Heroes forums.
 
But the LA is not like the Vietnamese or the Taliban. They were not bred to fight, they are not religious zealots. They are a band of people who got together because there was a power vacuum in the galaxy. As such they are not gonna be this great fighting force. Since they are outnumbered and outgunned, a full on attack makes no sense. Infiltrating people like the Goa'uld did, or brainwashing people like they did with Telford. That does make sense. But that kind of operation takes time and it shouldn't be sabotaged by said full on attack which has no means of success and would only draw MORE attention to themselves.

Furthermore, that kind of thing is 100% the responsability of Homeworld command. It makes no sense that the LA would send people who possess valuable information about their plans (Simeon and Ginn) in a far away galaxy. Why let them out of your sight and out of your control, especially since people like Ginn and Varro are not to be trusted. If the LA were as hardcore as people make them out to be, than Simeon would've killed Ginn AND himself in order to make sure the terrans never find out the LA's plans. But Simeon opted to make a run for it, which goes to show that when push comes to shove, the LA's made up of people who value their own lives more then they do their cause. Unlike the examples of Earth formations already given.
 
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Arbiter said:
Why kill Ginn?!?!?!?

She was so hot
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First, I agree.
To answer your question : geeky chubby guy don't get laid in TV Show.
I had prophesied ( pages ago ) that Eli would be single the whole show and thought I was wrong when Ginn was introduced but she didn't last long.

Edit : 666 posts, the number of the beast, this thread is doomed.
 
As cool as it is to see a bit of an edge with Eli at the moment due to Ginn's death - I hope we haven't lost the wise cracking, joke telling, smart ass for good.
 
This was a frakking brilliant episode. The tension and intensity never let up once. A couple of minor missteps (overused the slo-mo a bit there), but overall very solid.

Had they been able to squeeze just one or two episodes like this into the first season, I doubt SGU would be hurting for ratings like it is now (ignoring the Tuesday move).
 
*cracks knucles*

Wanna try and take care of all these in one go. ;)

LadyVader said:
If they needed him for intel why didn't Homeworld command report back the second that Ginn told them the truth? Ginn spent what, hours upon hours to let them know that hey... SIMEON KNOWS SOMETHING! Yeah sure, it took me an hour just to type that sentence.

He should've never had the time to get an arsenal together and plan his escape (not to mention murder two women) once Ginn made it to Earth.
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This is probably the only real plot point in the episode for me. And I'm hoping we see it get addressed in the next episode by a rather pissed of Rush and Eli. My guess, some idiot IOC interrogators did get the information pretty quickly, but figured there was no issue since 'what harm could he really do on Desitny?' I don't think the attack was immanent, so, instead of doing what the military would have done, they kept the information for themselves, thinking they would call Simeon down next. We've seen plenty of times how the IOC doesn't like to share information.


LadyVader said:
First of all, all the races except the Replicators maybe, would love to do an underhanded trick like that. Second of all, why would the LA do that? What could they possibly have to profit? And they're not ones for suicide missions either way. The Lucians were always a squabbling bunch of mercenaries and thugs who were not really into empire building but more into profit.

Suddenly they are a major threat to earth with its fleet (at least 5) of Daedalus class ships with Asgard technology, Atlantis and the Antarctic weapons platform. Plus Earth is allied with the Jaffa, who control most of the ships and hardware the System Lords left AND the Ori.

Of course, we can't have a Stargate show without Earth facing some kind of threat, even when it's millions of light years away. Nevermind that it's a threat based on collective amnesia, since we shouldn't remember that at this point in time humans can pretty much kick the ass of anything of almost Ascension high power levels.
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The G'ould, Replicators (classic style), and Ori were a different class of baddie altogether. They all believed themselves to be unbeatable. And for the longest time they were. Even with all the fancy tech the SGC had, the Ori were kicking their asses. The G'ould and Ori were too full of themselves to believe they were in real danger and needed anything other than an outright attack (although the Ori did get a bit sneaky and force convert worlds). The classic Replicators just didn't think in that way, and the Nanocators had the same issue as the G'ould and Ori.

The LA si completely different. The analogy to being terrorists, or at least operating like terrorists, is a good one. They're incredibly difficult to beat because there's no one place to attack them. Any attack just takes out a small cell. And, of course, since Earth is always getting in the way and taking down the cells, it becomes a natural target. Sure, the Earth/Jaffa alliance may have technological superiority, but the LA has numbers on its side (taking up all the G'ould tech the free Jaffa couldn't grab up) and stealth. The United States has military superiority too. And look how well that's working out. ;)

GL1 said:
I visciously enjoyed the conflict that the first season had, and I thought the LA would have been a great way to keep that war-within-a-ship going while the s1 characters are all on the same page, more or less. In-ship conflict on top of out-of-ship conflict is awesome. You can do bottle shows and have competing factions, it just... ugh. Brilliant potential. I could care less about Destiny's mission honestly. Is it interesting when we start to relate things like pre-Big Bang Intelligence and the Aliens that made the star and planet that TJ's baby is on? Yeah, sure. Is the potential for some super powerful SGU aliens interesting? Yeah. But on its own, the mission is silly, almost entirely an intellectual exercise, and, to be honest, few, if any, of the crew are useful at all in that mission. Really just the ones we see, everyone else can go home. Even now, since, y'know, we have control of the ship's systems.

I'm rolling around, once again, in a Science Fiction series' wasted potential. It's almost as bad as Voyager.
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It's more than just an intellectual exercise. Destiny might be on track to figure out what/how the universe was created. Possibly the purpose of everything. Before discovering Ascension (which I believe provides ultimate knowledge?) this was the most important thing to the Ancients.

As for the crew being useful for that purpose? Most of the crew aren't useful now with regards to getting the crew home other than guard duty (which was the same way it was on the original Icarus project). And they still can't just go home, even if they now have total control of the systems. To use the gate, they still need a sufficient power source to dial Earth, which they don't have. Although Eli has an idea.

And they can't just fly home. First off, they don't know where home is in relation to where they are, and could end up going in the wrong direction. Secondly, they're billions of light years away. Doing some quick math, and assuming they can travel the distance of a galaxy in roughly 6 hours (a gate can dial the length of a galaxy, and 4 hours of travel keeps them in range of a gate), and a galaxy is on average about 100,000 light years long (like the Milky Way)...

...It would take them about 27 years to get home. And that's if they never stop for power/food/water/whatever. And that's if they don't go in the wrong direction.

So they might as well continue on Destiny's original mission while working on ideas for getting back to Earth. It's not like they have much else to do, and who know what the payoff from what they find out along the way.


LadyVader said:
But the LA is not like the Vietnamese or the Taliban. They were not bred to fight, they are not religious zealots. They are a band of people who got together because there was a power vacuum in the galaxy. As such they are not gonna be this great fighting force. Since they are outnumbered and outgunned, a full on attack makes no sense. Infiltrating people like the Goa'uld did, or brainwashing people like they did with Telford. That does make sense. But that kind of operation takes time and it shouldn't be sabotaged by said full on attack which has no means of success and would only draw MORE attention to themselves.

Furthermore, that kind of thing is 100% the responsability of Homeworld command. It makes no sense that the LA would send people who possess valuable information about their plans (Simeon and Ginn) in a far away galaxy. Why let them out of your sight and out of your control, especially since people like Ginn and Varro are not to be trusted. If the LA were as hardcore as people make them out to be, than Simeon would've killed Ginn AND himself in order to make sure the terrans never find out the LA's plans. But Simeon opted to make a run for it, which goes to show that when push comes to shove, the LA's made up of people who value their own lives more then they do their cause. Unlike the examples of Earth formations already given.
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We don't know what form the attack on Earth may be. Like someone said, it could consist of parking a cloaked naquida filled ship over Washington DC or Stargate Command, and pressing the big red button. It's not necessarily going to be an all out attack on Earth. One description of the LA is that they're former smuggles and gangsters. So I keep getting this mental picture of Al Capone's mob (the LA) vs the Feds and police (SGC). The attack on Earth may be analogous to a drive-by shooting. Except, the LA version of a tommy gun uses high explosives and starships.

Now, sending someone with Simeon's knowledge to Destiny is admittedly another potential plot point that needs cleared up. Although, I get the impression the LA knew things about Destiny the crew doesn't, so maybe it's part of their planned attack somehow? Or they were hoping to find tech that would help with the attack? Until it's cleared up, this is a dangling point.

I'm not sure why Simeon (or the LA in general) valuing his own life over the cause really matters. Knowing he couldn't stay on Destiny anymore because they'd want his information, he tried escaping and finding his way back to his people. And only when he had a gun to his face and critical injuries did he decide to beg for his life. That's pretty committed to the cause.
 
Black Dynamite said:
SGU would be better if we figured out destiny's mission in the first season. We are almost half way through the second season and they are still not acting like a real crew. All of the general conflicts between the crew should of been dealt with in the first season.
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Well I think that's what sets SGU apart from the other SG shows.
Instead of having every episode focus around the concept of going through a Stargate and deal with the concsequences of that, SGU has the SG Universe in the background as we see more about characters issues, emotions, and more general dramatic elements like trust, narcissism, love, desparation, isolation, military vs. civilian issues, etc.

I like that the show isn't team-centric but we're getting to see how people with opposing personalities, background, political views, etc... trying to make the best of a ****ed up situation, with ****ed up results.
It makes for good TV, I think.
 
LadyVader said:
If they needed him for intel why didn't Homeworld command report back the second that Ginn told them the truth? Ginn spent what, hours upon hours to let them know that hey... SIMEON KNOWS SOMETHING! Yeah sure, it took me an hour just to type that sentence.

He should've never had the time to get an arsenal together and plan his escape (not to mention murder two women) once Ginn made it to Earth.

And why is it that Earth is so scared of the Lucian Alliance? Are we not still talking about the race that defeated Goa'ulds, Replicators, Wraiths and Ori? Aren't the Lucian Alliance liittle kids compared to those guys?
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I get what you're saying, and not trying to justify or fill the plot hole but provide an alternative explanation.
I don't know how it works with interrogation, but I don't think they would verify all facts and act upon all intel given by Ginn until the interrogation was completed.
If they did, then a suspect could easily have them going on random goose chases by giving them false info upon false info through out the interrogation.
It seems that all that info became a priority once Ginn died, circumstances changed and there was an immediate need to relay info back to Destiny about what was learned.

I agree that Simeon should never have been allowed to get the arsenal in the first place.

Also with the LA, the vibe I got throughout SGU in referances to the LA is that things have changed drastically within that group since we last saw/heard of them in the SG Universe...
 
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I really wish they could have kept Destiny's mission a secret until the third season. Or at least the second season finale, and played up the mystery a lot more than they did. One of the problems with Atlantis is that they got reinforcements from Earth way too early. That would have been much better saved until the end of the second season, with supplies and ammunition running out, the Wrath literally in the base, and then the cavalry arrives through the gate.
 
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