Stargate SG-1/Atlantis/Universe

[C. Lee]

Except that in the first two series, all we ever saw were the best of the best. And they were all still far from perfect. We saw soldiers and scientists specifically selected to go into the most dangerous situations and explore the unknown.

In the case of Icarus base, the personnel, to put it bluntly, didn't have to be held to the same standards. They were supposed to be on a secret base, safe from the fighting. And it was a low priority mission. The Icarus soldiers were essential babysitters for the scientists (whereas on Atlantis, everyone had been selected knowing they could be cut off from Earth for years, and they prepared themselves and their equipment/supplies accordingly).

So what we're seeing are the second stringers called up to the big leagues, if you'll excuse the slightly mixed metaphor. They're in a situation they never prepared for, and that many of them can't psychologically take (they wouldn't have been selected for the Atlantis expedition even if they had volunteered).

Bingo!

 

[Superfreak]

Except that in the first two series, all we ever saw were the best of the best. And they were all still far from perfect. We saw soldiers and scientists specifically selected to go into the most dangerous situations and explore the unknown.

In the case of Icarus base, the personnel, to put it bluntly, didn't have to be held to the same standards. They were supposed to be on a secret base, safe from the fighting. And it was a low priority mission. The Icarus soldiers were essential babysitters for the scientists (whereas on Atlantis, everyone had been selected knowing they could be cut off from Earth for years, and they prepared themselves and their equipment/supplies accordingly).

So what we're seeing are the second stringers called up to the big leagues, if you'll excuse the slightly mixed metaphor. They're in a situation they never prepared for, and that many of them can't psychologically take (they wouldn't have been selected for the Atlantis expedition even if they had volunteered).

yeah, but even the command officers(colonels+)? It's just doesn't make sense to me. Even the second string command officers on the other shows seemed more capable. Hell, the trainees from way back in SG1 seemed more capable than the higher ranking officers on this show.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Young and Telford both seem pretty competent to me.

 

[Superfreak]

Young and Telford both seem pretty competent to me.

competent, yes, totally mental, both of them, yes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

How so? Young's got personal problems at home, but he's been nothing but fantastic as a leader for this neurotic, despairing community he's found himself in command of on Destiny.

Telford, on the other hand, is pretty wacky.

 

[wiegeabo]

Telford would probably be a fine commander if he was actually on Destiny. Different, but competent.

The problem is, he keeps trying to usurp Young's command, without anyway to make it stick. If it was any other position on the front lines, Telford could send someone to relieve Young, or do it himself. But he can't. Yet, instead of working with Young, he just tries to force the situation and makes a mess of everything. The military needs a clear command structure, and Telford is confusing it (and the IOA isn't helping any since they seem to be tying Jack's hands about it).

 

[aaron]

i dont really like the military people on earth,they're still acting like they call the shots yet really the people on the ship are the ones in control

 

[Paradox1]

That would be great if the situation on Destiny was a democracy. But it's not. And the military command structure is well suited to survival situations like this one where the good of the whole outweighs the good of the individual.

Except in the military there is a saying of leaving no man behind.Even in the military there are courts for court marshals. What else that makes it wrong he didn't have the guts to tell the rest of the crew cause he knew there would be people who would side with Rush. Lets face it Rush was a threat to his leadership powers. Its like two alpha lions that battle for the crown.

 

[wiegeabo]

Except in the military there is a saying of leaving no man behind.Even in the military there are courts for court marshals. What else that makes it wrong he didn't have the guts to tell the rest of the crew cause he knew there would be people who would side with Rush. Lets face it Rush was a threat to his leadership powers. Its like two alpha lions that battle for the crown.

True. But didn't Young tell O'Neill that he'd be willing to face any consequences once they got back to Earth. But until then, the survival of the crew was his first priority.

 

[LadyVader]

Not the entire crew apparently.

 

[Superfreak]

Not the entire crew apparently.

exactly. Young's responsibility is not to excecute people... it's to make sure that as many of those people make it back alive. Rush is his responsibility too.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, good leader or not, Young's only human. Besides, Rush was working counter to the interests of the group so much that another commander could reasonably have come to the conclusion that Rush had to go, without any of Rush's personal wrongs to Young influencing their decision.

 

[LadyVader]

He may have his own interests, but what has he done to ENDANGER people's lives? Has he ever threatened the survival of the group? His main interest is to get knowledge of the Destiny, which in my mind is the only way they can possibly get home safely.

Young and the others don't care about the Destiny, they want to take the shortcut and make the ship do just whatever THEY want it to do. Rush has the better understanding and sees Young's intrusions as obstacles. But honestly since when in the entire Stargate franchise has technology EVER worked without a hitch from the first try? Even things that were manufactured BY humans eventually found way to turn against them.

In this case I think they should let Rush work however he wants to work as long as he doesn't endanger people's lives. Which he hasn't done yet. We don't know what drove that scientist to jump in that chair.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

His own curiosity and lack of sense, which I'm sure is exactly what Rush counted on. I think it's pretty naive to think that Rush didn't know opening the chair up to the other scientists wouldn't eventually tempt one of them to try it in spite of their better judgment. It was his cowardly, manipulative way of getting to use the chair without risking himself.

 

[LadyVader]

What was he supposed to do? Hide the thing? If he didn't tell anybody about it, there would be just as big of a chance somebody sitting in it without knowing what it does. Lock it away? That would've prevented anybody working on the chair and possibly find a way to render it harmless.

He acted just like anybody would. Look, i found this thing, it could get us home, it's dangerous. It's the same thing like with that senator that gave his life in the beginning of the show. Rush can't be blamed for what other people do. Or at the very least, it doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he represents a danger to the survival of the group. It's not like after Wray gave him control of the science team he went: "You sit in that chair, now!" (we didn't see him do that on camera so let's assume he didn't).

A leader with a bad temper that arbitrarily decides who gets to live and die is another matter.

And another thing. Don't tell me that Young thought about all the crap that Rush did when he left him on that planet. If it Rush's behaviour had been SO bad Young would've restricted his acces to Destiny at the very least. Especially since the chair was discovered SOME time ago and Rush was guilty of manipulating and scheming BEFORE trying to frame Young. It was only after he went for Young specifically and threatened his command that Young decided it was time to let him go. So it was a purely emotional decision. He didn't act in the interest of the group, he acted in his own interest. Since the Destiny crew could very well survive with Wray in charge.

 

[Superfreak]

agreed LV. Rush may have manipulated to situation, but he told everyone that the chair was dangerous, and that they had to figure out how to lessen the danger.

Moreover, Young has probably put everybody on Destiny in more danger, rather than less, by his actions on the planet. Smart move leader: exile the only person on board who knows what he is doing. Can't just abandon the guy because he's a dick, especially when he's the most qualified person at your disposal.

 

[Superfreak]

Except that in the first two series, all we ever saw were the best of the best. And they were all still far from perfect. We saw soldiers and scientists specifically selected to go into the most dangerous situations and explore the unknown.

In the case of Icarus base, the personnel, to put it bluntly, didn't have to be held to the same standards. They were supposed to be on a secret base, safe from the fighting. And it was a low priority mission. The Icarus soldiers were essential babysitters for the scientists (whereas on Atlantis, everyone had been selected knowing they could be cut off from Earth for years, and they prepared themselves and their equipment/supplies accordingly).

So what we're seeing are the second stringers called up to the big leagues, if you'll excuse the slightly mixed metaphor. They're in a situation they never prepared for, and that many of them can't psychologically take (they wouldn't have been selected for the Atlantis expedition even if they had volunteered).

Back to this again: SG1 and the Atlantis expedition may have been the cream de la cream of the SGC, but we also gotta remember that all SGC personel are the cream de la cream of our entire planet: they shouldn't be so melodramatic... atleast the military people

 

[wiegeabo]

Rush framed the guy for murder. And flat out told him he'd never stop coming after him. At the very least that means Rush is going to try and undermine Young's authority, thereby putting the crew at risk. At worst, it means Rush is going to kill Young. That's either mutiny or murder, either one punishable by death in the military.

And once Rush admitted that he was never going to stop going after Young, and that he'd do whatever he wanted, he became a liability to the mission. Instead of working to get them home, Rush is working towards his own endgame, and Young had to put a stop to it.


And again, maybe we're reading too much into it. Young might have had no intention of leaving Rush behind. Just give him a beat down to remind him who the alpha dog was, and to stop ****ing around. But Rush had to keep pushing those buttons, and Young knocked his ass out. At which point, both of them were screwed because Young didn't have the time to carry him back to the gate. It was either leave Rush behind, or they both get stranded.

 

[wiegeabo]

Back to this again: SG1 and the Atlantis expedition may have been the cream de la cream of the SGC, but we also gotta remember that all SGC personel are the cream de la cream of our entire planet: they shouldn't be so melodramatic... atleast the military people

Of all the military personnel on Destiny, only three are 'so melodramatic': Young, Greer, and the guy who shot himself. Ok, and maybe Telford. Although the guy who shot himself gets to be melodramatic because he was suicidal, but was able to hide it (not uncommon in the military, unfortunately).

Scott's just a horn-dog.

The scientists...well, they're a lot like all the scientists we've seen in both other series.


And even the best of the best are people too, with screwed up stuff in their lives and **** they have to deal with.

Look how 'melodramatic' O'Neill was after Charlie's death and the breakup of his marriage. He was suicidal in the movie (Kurt Russel), and was still all screwed up in the pilot.


Maybe all of this perceived melodrama seems so out of place because we've never really seen the off-duty lives of SGC personnel before, except in occasional episodes. But on Destiny, we have this self-contained little world where on-duty blends with off-duty, and everyone sees the same people over and over again, no one likes the situation they're in, and there's no relief in sight. Even the best of the best crack under those conditions.

 

[LadyVader]

Rush framed the guy for murder. And flat out told him he'd never stop coming after him. At the very least that means Rush is going to try and undermine Young's authority, thereby putting the crew at risk. At worst, it means Rush is going to kill Young. That's either mutiny or murder, either one punishable by death in the military.

And once Rush admitted that he was never going to stop going after Young, and that he'd do whatever he wanted, he became a liability to the mission. Instead of working to get them home, Rush is working towards his own endgame, and Young had to put a stop to it.

Rush saying that he will never stop means JUST that. That he SAID he would never stop. You don't strand somebody on a deserted planet over something he SAYS. Let's not forget that Rush and Young did work together when the situation called for it.

Rush never placed anybody in danger willingly, he never killed anybody or threatened to hurt anybody. Never stole food, never held anybody at gunpoint. If anything, more crap has happened to him than he has inflicted on other people. The thing he did wrong (on the ship) was to state from the beginning that the only way they were getting home is if they know Destiny's secrets and he devoted himself to learning those secrets. Fact is that he is more interested in learning those secrets for himself than the rest of the people, but that doesn't infer his initial statements. They DO need to know more about Destiny to get home, and he is the gateway to that. But Young isn't comfortable 1. depending on Rush and 2. letting somebody like Rush get the knowledge he desires. And that's why I think he left him on that planet. Not because it is in the INTEREST of the group.

And again, maybe we're reading too much into it. Young might have had no intention of leaving Rush behind. Just give him a beat down to remind him who the alpha dog was, and to stop ****ing around. But Rush had to keep pushing those buttons, and Young knocked his ass out. At which point, both of them were screwed because Young didn't have the time to carry him back to the gate. It was either leave Rush behind, or they both get stranded.

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Young drags Scott's ass out of that ice crevice? By himself? And he had to carry both Scott and his 100 pound suit. And isn't Scott a bigger guy than puny Rush? You actually expect me to believe he couldn't have carried Rush out of there? Heck, maybe if he slapped him around a bit maybe he could've waked him up!

Even the best of the best crack under those conditions.

Exactly. Like Young did on that planet.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Back to this again: SG1 and the Atlantis expedition may have been the cream de la cream of the SGC, but we also gotta remember that all SGC personel are the cream de la cream of our entire planet: they shouldn't be so melodramatic... atleast the military people

EVERYONE has some kind of drama in each of their lives. We just never got to see them regularly from the SG1 and SGA teams, since there were so many other things for THEM and US to focus on. Being stuck in a tin-can as the SGU personnel are, all they have left is the human element. Essentially, it's the formula of the old SG shows turned on its head...just like they said it would be. Imagine that.

 

[Kahoot]

I'm not too sure he will...there was a commetn by RC that makes me think the Aliens will pick him up first,,,,,, and i suspect that they are the same ones that appeared at the end of Air III

The little sand things? Or the shuttle/ship that flew away at the end of the episode?

 

[wiegeabo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Young drags Scott's ass out of that ice crevice? By himself? And he had to carry both Scott and his 100 pound suit. And isn't Scott a bigger guy than puny Rush? You actually expect me to believe he couldn't have carried Rush out of there? Heck, maybe if he slapped him around a bit maybe he could've waked him up!

Yes he did. Did you also notice that while not carrying Rush or any equipment he barely made it through the gate in time? Meaning that had he been carrying anything like he did on the ice planet, he wouldn't have made it at all, probably because he was a lot closer to the gate and/or had more time on the ice planet.

 

[C. Lee]

Rush saying that he will never stop means JUST that. That he SAID he would never stop. You don't strand somebody on a deserted planet over something he SAYS. Let's not forget that Rush and Young did work together when the situation called for it.

I suggest you never stand infront of a cop and just SAY that you plan on killing the president.....you might be surprised by what will be done.

 

[LadyVader]

Yes he did. Did you also notice that while not carrying Rush or any equipment he barely made it through the gate in time? Meaning that had he been carrying anything like he did on the ice planet, he wouldn't have made it at all, probably because he was a lot closer to the gate and/or had more time on the ice planet.

Of course he would BARELY make it on time. It'd be a little silly if he arrived 15 min before jumping and say: "oh, Rush couldn't make it".

I suggest you never stand infront of a cop and just SAY that you plan on killing the president.....you might be surprised by what will be done.

Doesn't really work when you say that to a person coming from a country where the military shot a former president on Christmas day. He'd probably slap me on the back and say: "Good luck."


Seriously though, that's a pretty weak comparison. IMO.