First Avenger suggestion that's going to get my lynched

[Bubonic]

Even if you took HGH you wouldn't make it into professional baseball.

He signed up to be a soldier and was manipulated into the program, if he somehow found something like the SSS on the street and took it with knowledge of what it did so that he could be accepted into the army, then I'd follow your logic.

Straight-edge people are complete self-righteous *******s.

Also keep in mind that the hero Steve became was even more reliant on the person he was within then the physical specimen he became thereafter. He also had to learn the skills he acquired, they didn't upload martial arts and other tactics into his brain like in the Matrix.

 

[3atman]

I think you, and many others in this thread, are missing the single thing that differentiates Captain America and the Super Soldier Serum from an athlete and steroids. Quite simply; side effects.

Steroids are not banned simply because they give a competitive edge. They are banned because they are dangerous. They cause a myriad of health problems, many fatal, as well as a number of psychological effects.

The Super Soldier Serum is not analogous to steroids. Matter of fact, a close analogy would be the "knock-off" Super Serum that Blonsky took in The Incredible Hulk. It made him powerful but had psychological side effects.

The Super Soldier Serum formula that Cap took had no side effects. It was almost singular in that fact. All the other variants had many harmful side-effects, which was one of the reasons the Super Soldier program was shut down. The original scientist who perfected the formula was shot and killed and, unfortunately, had most of the process of the serum's creation devoted only to memory. Thus the secret of its creation was lost.

Back on point, this is what makes Cap's serum different from steroids, over and above the differences in Cap's noble motivations and an athlete's monetary motivations. The lack of harmful side-effects are what make the Super Soldier Serum a positive thing and not a negative one.

If there existed a Serum like this, it would be encouraged and not banned like steroids. It would be a positive thing and not frowned upon. However, no such serum exists and steroids is a poor, poor substitute. t:

Actually, steroids aren't that dangerous if taken right. The danger of steroids is that it's easily abused. If you are rich like a MLB player, you can afford doctors to keep it safe. More people go to the emergency room a year due to Vitamin C problems than steroids. The reason why it's such a hot topic in the media is because it's sexy. It's easy to see roid use because guys get bigger and when abused the problems are awful. If they wanted to make it a level playing field, they'd outlaw painkillers too that make you able to play when you otherwise wouldn't and they wouldn't have allowed Tiger Woods' lasik surgery that gave him better than 20/20 in a sport that relies on depth perception a lot. The media, has made this, much like the economy, a bigger deal than it is.

Bottom line is that instead of doing something with what God gave him, like becoming president, he took something, manipulated or not, and became a super soldier. To me, I dont' care, that's no different than the MLB players that do it to make sure their kids and grandkids never have to work again and to me, it's no less or more moral either.

 

[roach]

Bottom line is that instead of doing something with what God gave him, like becoming president, he took something, manipulated or not, and became a super soldier. To me, I dont' care, that's no different than the MLB players that do it to make sure their kids and grandkids never have to work again and to me, it's no less or more moral either.

Peter didnt use his god given abilities to become Spiderman
Neither did Hulk, Antman, Flash,Shazam.....

 

[Gilpesh]

Why is this ******ed thread still going?

Captain America chanced dying with the serum because it would help America. That is better than some idiot who wants to hit a baseball harder so he can demand more money. If some dumb ass wrestler can't see that, sucks for him, he's just proving what we all know already.

End of story.

 

[3atman]

no it's NOT. That is totally subjective. I would NEVER fight in a war for this country because in all likelihood, we don't have to be there. However, if I had to do something a little immoral to make millions a year and provide incredibly well for my family, I'd do that in a heart beat. Most people would, that's proof by politicians lying, journalists skewing facts, businessmen cheating their partners and their customers, pornstars taking drugs to make them perform better, students taking aderol, musicians taking drugs to calm them before an audition, it happens in every aspect of life.

CM Punk is not a dumb ass wrestler, again, you are just being ignorant and not really reading into it. CM Punk is a straight edge heel, a babyface that would put on a good feud with him would be a babyface that took the SSS.

"Captain America chanced dying because it would help America" no, him becoming president and meeting with foreign leaders and figuring out a resolution without anyone dying or anymore wars would help America more. My point isn't that Captain America is a bad guy, just that he's just like every other American Hero.

 

[Gilpesh]

Yeah. That guy is a dumb ass wrestler. Trying to describe him in wrestling terms just makes it sound stupider.

And your idea that Steve Rogers should have become president to solve World War 2 is... well, let's just say that if your idea was a person; it would be on the short bus and wearing a helmet. First off, Steve Rogers is what... eighteen, nineteen, when he takes it? That means he has to wait YEARS before he is even able to run, and then he's obviously not winning any time soon... so with your plan. Steve Rogers would roughly arrive decades after the Nazis killed all the jews in Europe. Good job.

Steve Rogers taking the serum was a test. A test that in his mind would have lead to more soldiers like him which means that less American kids would die in the war and the war would end sooner with less people killed. That, is way more moral than some idiots playing baseball on steroids for inflated paychecks.

 

[roach]

CM Punk is not a dumb ass wrestler, again, you are just being ignorant and not really reading into it. CM Punk is a straight edge heel, a babyface that would put on a good feud with him would be a babyface that took the SSS.

"Captain America chanced dying because it would help America" no, him becoming president and meeting with foreign leaders and figuring out a resolution without anyone dying or anymore wars would help America more. My point isn't that Captain America is a bad guy, just that he's just like every other American Hero.

Hitler can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And He absolutely will not stop, ever, until everyone is dead.

 

[Gilpesh]

Hitler can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And He absolutely will not stop, ever, until everyone is dead.

I don't know what's funnier: that I've heard this in many movies to describe the bad guy.... or the fact that it was in the present tense and gave me a mental image of zombie Hitler.

 

[roach]

I don't know what's funnier: that I've heard this in many movies to describe the bad guy.... or the fact that it was in the present tense and gave me a mental image of zombie Hitler.

its from terminator

 

[C. Lee]

"Captain America chanced dying because it would help America" no, him becoming president and meeting with foreign leaders and figuring out a resolution without anyone dying or anymore wars would help America more. My point isn't that Captain America is a bad guy, just that he's just like every other American Hero.

Do you have any idea what was going on during that little thing called WORLD WAR II?

 

[3atman]

So, Steve was young, he can be a politican, he can start a group like the Axis of Justice. I know that in the captain world 1 soldier really did make a difference, but you can make much more of a difference if you are the one pulling the strings. Yea he was young, and I know the comic universe is different, but we beat Hitler (actually parkinsons did) without the help of a super soldier.

I already got the answer I wanted out of one of the posters, so I'm satisfied.

 

[roach]

Do you have any idea what was going on during that little thing called WORLD WAR II?

I take that as a no

 

[roach]

So, Steve was young, he can be a politican, he can start a group like the Axis of Justice. I know that in the captain world 1 soldier really did make a difference, but you can make much more of a difference if you are the one pulling the strings. Yea he was young, and I know the comic universe is different, but we beat Hitler (actually parkinsons did) without the help of a super soldier.

I already got the answer I wanted out of one of the posters, so I'm satisfied.

Now I know you are just Effen with us

 

[3atman]

Do you have any idea what was going on during that little thing called WORLD WAR II?

No, I live in a cave in the middle east with Tom Morello trying to keep Tony Stark from building a suit, YES I know. Why do you guys think it's so noble to become a soldier. If you are really physically fit, but not too smart (no offense to any enlisted men, I have some friends who are, one dropped out of high school, the other got a 13 on his ACT, enlisted soldiers are historically the bottom 20% of their high school) then you should be a soldier. However, if you are smart and not very fit, try a different way to make a difference. The idea that you'll really make that much of a difference is why they can promote the military to young kids with so much more to live for, watch the HBO documentary on Vietnam, it's sick how young these guys were. Granted they were in the draft many of them, but a lot of them started out enthusiastic because of what they were told, by the end of it, they felt like they had been played and they just wanted out.

 

[Gilpesh]

I already got the answer I wanted out of one of the posters, so I'm satisfied.

Hah. "One other person is as crazy as me! That makes me right!"

 

[roach]

No, I live in a cave in the middle east with Tom Morello trying to keep Tony Stark from building a suit, YES I know. Why do you guys think it's so noble to become a soldier. If you are really physically fit, but not too smart (no offense to any enlisted men, I have some friends who are, one dropped out of high school, the other got a 13 on his ACT, enlisted soldiers are historically the bottom 20% of their high school) then you should be a soldier. However, if you are smart and not very fit, try a different way to make a difference. The idea that you'll really make that much of a difference is why they can promote the military to young kids with so much more to live for, watch the HBO documentary on Vietnam, it's sick how young these guys were. Granted they were in the draft many of them, but a lot of them started out enthusiastic because of what they were told, by the end of it, they felt like they had been played and they just wanted out.

Vietnam is not the same as WW2

 

[3atman]

I am right. My point is that captain america is the most american superhero because he's just like all the sports figures and actors who used enhancements to achieve what they want.

A baseball player who has all the mental ability but just isn't there physically takes roids= a guy who wants to be a soldier and has all the mental ability but just isn't there physically.

An actor who has all the charisma but doesn't have the look uses enhancement to do so, same thing. ITS THE SAME THING. It's not arguable. Your ONLY argument is that Captain America's cause is more noble, but that is 100% totally an opinion. The bare bones of what is going on is the same. Morality is debatable, the facts are not.

 

[C. Lee]

So, Steve was young, he can be a politican, he can start a group like the Axis of Justice. I know that in the captain world 1 soldier really did make a difference, but you can make much more of a difference if you are the one pulling the strings. Yea he was young, and I know the comic universe is different, but we beat Hitler (actually parkinsons did) without the help of a super soldier.

I already got the answer I wanted out of one of the posters, so I'm satisfied.

So....instead of a guy in his early 20's taking an experimental serum to make him a better soldier to fight the group of people who are systemetically murdering millions of innocent people and attacking most of the world's populace....you would prefer for him to become a politician, wait around for at least 15 years (you have to be at least 35 to become a president in the United States) in the hopes that he can be elected president so that he can peacefully and without bloodshed try to stop the attempted genocide of several different groups of people and the subjucation of the rest of the world?

 

[roach]

3atman let me know if you ever run for public office

 

[C. Lee]

No, I live in a cave in the middle east with Tom Morello trying to keep Tony Stark from building a suit, YES I know. Why do you guys think it's so noble to become a soldier. If you are really physically fit, but not too smart (no offense to any enlisted men, I have some friends who are, one dropped out of high school, the other got a 13 on his ACT, enlisted soldiers are historically the bottom 20% of their high school) then you should be a soldier. However, if you are smart and not very fit, try a different way to make a difference. The idea that you'll really make that much of a difference is why they can promote the military to young kids with so much more to live for, watch the HBO documentary on Vietnam, it's sick how young these guys were. Granted they were in the draft many of them, but a lot of them started out enthusiastic because of what they were told, by the end of it, they felt like they had been played and they just wanted out.

If you think that the events of WWII are comparable to Vietnam, or the Gulf wars.....then yeah, I suspect you have been living in a cave.

 

[roach]

I think he's screwing with us

 

[3atman]

All I'm suggesting is that Cap is like every other American hero. Maybe not become a politician, but he could start a group, like I said (and was ignored about this point). The Axis of Justice and other groups that fight for freedoms and global issues is something he could have done. Realistically one soldier, even a super soldier, doesn't help that much. I know in the comics it did. really, Caps decision and the success of that is all based on the writers. They could have written him as someone who starts a movement, but that wouldn't have been as exciting and wouldn't have promoted the military as much.

I wasn't saying Vietnam was like WW2, I was saying the idea that you can make a difference as a soldier is why we've always had young kids put in situations they probably shouldn't be in. You know, like when I said this

The idea that you'll really make that much of a difference is why they can promote the military to young kids with so much more to live for

. Then I used Vietnam as an example. That's not calling the 2 wars the same thing. I was just saying that throughout history the Government and military have pimped out this idea of "KILL SOME *INSERT NAME OF ENEMY* AND BE A PATRIOT HOA!!"

 

[Bubonic]

I am right. My point is that captain america is the most american superhero because he's just like all the sports figures and actors who used enhancements to achieve what they want.

A baseball player who has all the mental ability but just isn't there physically takes roids= a guy who wants to be a soldier and has all the mental ability but just isn't there physically.

An actor who has all the charisma but doesn't have the look uses enhancement to do so, same thing. ITS THE SAME THING. It's not arguable. Your ONLY argument is that Captain America's cause is more noble, but that is 100% totally an opinion. The bare bones of what is going on is the same. Morality is debatable, the facts are not.

Hope you're just a big troll.

There are no facts here as you're discussing fiction.

You think politicians stop wars?

You need some enhancements of your own, drug induced or otherwise.

 

[roach]

All I'm suggesting is that Cap is like every other American hero. Maybe not become a politician, but he could start a group, like I said (and was ignored about this point). The Axis of Justice and other groups that fight for freedoms and global issues is something he could have done. Realistically one soldier, even a super soldier, doesn't help that much. I know in the comics it did. really, Caps decision and the success of that is all based on the writers. They could have written him as someone who starts a movement, but that wouldn't have been as exciting and wouldn't have promoted the military as much.

I wasn't saying Vietnam was like WW2, I was saying the idea that you can make a difference as a soldier is why we've always had young kids put in situations they probably shouldn't be in. You know, like when I said this . Then I used Vietnam as an example. That's not calling the 2 wars the same thing. I was just saying that throughout history the Government and military have pimped out this idea of "KILL SOME *INSERT NAME OF ENEMY* AND BE A PATRIOT HOA!!"

at what point did Captain America promote the military?????

and as someone who joined the military I have not met anyone who joined because the recruiter said go kill the enemy and become a patriot. Its clear to me that you have some issues with the military and thats cool because we all arent supposed to like the same things

 

[Bubonic]

Threads like these remind me why I hardly ever post anymore in the first place.

Also, Captain America didn't win the war now did he?

Originally the U.S. wanted to make the whole army consist of soldiers such as he, but things went to hell and he was the only one who benefited from it. He served as a symbol of American might, a fighting personification of everything they'd want to stand for and inspiration to keep on fighting.

Obviously in real life they wouldn't use someone this spectacular in the fashion that they did since he'd of been such a beauteous target, wearing the flag and representing what he did would of meant that killing him would of killed hope, all the more reason to kill him.

He'd of been used for recruitment footage and if actually used he'd be some special op type that would never be seen as he silently killed enemy forces, an American ninja.

Thank you for forcing me to think of how weak the character is, jerk.