Superman Returns Superman Returns is in continuity with the Donner Cut of Superman II! (Spoilers)

[Freddy_Krueger]

That's the equivalent of throwing your "seed" into the wind, and I feel sorry for any sperm of your's that may have been caught. That's a shame for your child/children!

It seems, going from you and Showey, that most men don't think of babies/children/their seed, and they impact they may have on their lives. I guess this is because in the real scheme of things it is negligent to chavaunist like you and Showey.

However, for the woman she must think of this because it involves the use of her body.

Of course, the irresponsible man who is willing to throw his seed into the wind will screw anyone because he doesn't care that his flesh and blood might be living in the gutter after he has departed. He's not responsible or concerned enough to check it out later, and he may have left without a goodbye.

C'mon dude...this is usually the behavior of a teenager and some stupid ass men who have tons of kids everywhere!

I take offense to SUPERMAN being classed in the same category as YOU though!!!!! He's not like that, and he's has more character.

Ummm...again a moot argument because Superman didn't have sex with anyone but Lois, so technically he didn't "throw his seed into the wind" or sleep around. Again, they had consentual sex, Superman realized that he couldn't be with Lois and still be Superman and ended it. He left the Earth, came back, found out he had a kid and told her he'd be there for her and Jason.

Again, it's not a chauvinist thing. Had Superman known Lois was pregnant he wouldn't have left in the first place, considering the whole purpose of his leaving was to find others like him. It's just kinda hard to be so judgemental on a character (a FICTIONAL character) when they don't know they have a kid but once they find out they did in fact father a child that they promise to be there for it.

Yeesh.

 

[Showtime]

Superman can't be responsible for a child he created. That's what you are saying about Superman. In essence, any man who screws is not responsible for his child if he didn't know about because he "screwed" up and didn't know it might happen.

A man can't be held responsible for tossing his seed into the wind.

YO....they just passed a regulation on that concerning AIDS though. I think you are wrong about that! Yet, you are inherently a chavunist (sp)...LOL....LOL...are you an AIDS spreader too.

I see why you like BSinger version of "Singerman". He supports not being responsible because you are lonely and ****ed up inside. You don't have to act right if you are all screwed up.

What are you not computing? I said he is now responsible because he knows. I am not sure what you are missing. You're way out of line and its like you are not even reading my posts. I don't know what else I can do to spell it out for you, you can't be dead beat dad until you know you have a child and then don't provide for them. I don't know what makes me a chauvinist when I am talking about a movie, I would have never left without saying goodbye in the first place. So keep it up.

 

[charl_huntress]

What are you not computing? I said he is now responsible because he knows. I am not sure what you are missing. You're way out of line and its like you are not even reading my posts. I don't know what else I can do to spell it out for you, you can't be dead beat dad until you know you have a child and then don't provide for them. I don't know what makes me a chauvinist when I am talking about a movie, I would have never left without saying goodbye in the first place. So keep it up.

Please, you put up some hyperlinks about how "deadbeat" was the wrong word, which if you read closely sort of supports my supposition about what Clark Kent/Superman did to poor ole Jason

Anyway....Man Showey...you just continually piss me off with the bull**** stuff. You agree with me; yet try to hammer me on semantics and **** like that. I am not stupid, and if you don't like the term "dead beat" (and that is really sticking in your skin) then come up with something else. Don't argue with me and then say I'm wrong becaue of ONE FRIGGIN WORD.

YOU LOOK STUPID FOR ARGUING WITH A PERSON WHO CAN'T GET SEMANTICS RIGHT!!!!!

If that is big point for you then stop talking to me because I don't quote Webster on the net. You know what I am saying, and I try to make it clear every single time I post. Yet, you do the Singer-dance when you can't explain the the non-semantic crap you DON'T have a problem with.

It is YOU who ****ing sounds stupid because you are going on about a word.

Get over that one word and get with what I am saying! You already said you understood, and if you want me to use a NEW word for your delicate sensibilities then tell me! If that makes you happy and that makes you understand better than I am all for it!

At this point though, your **** is played and I am sick of that ****!

You and I have been "discussing" this for two days, and I keep repeating my points over and over with the term DEADBEAT. Yet, you start with semantics when you say you understand to begin with.

You and MOST Singerman do this crap all the time. You don't want to talk about the cowardice and irresponsibility. YOU JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT ONE ****ING WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Maze]

I read this boards since some times since the beginning of the production, i post on those boards since july.

i had good discussion ..a lot of non sensical one too (but that's my responsability.i could have stop anytime)i've been angered by the behavior of some ..from both "camps".

but if there was one person who is respectful of both "camps" to this day it's Showtime029.

You're way out of line Charl huntress.

 

[Showtime]

I am saying that the term you are using is wrong, the way you are defining Superman's actions are wrong. That is whaty I am saying. It's not just one word, it's your whole debate in regards to Superman & The Kid I agreed with you about leaving Lois, not about him being a deadbeat dad. I said repeatedly that he wasn't a deadbeat dad, he doesn't fit the term, he doesn't fit the definition. If anybody read my posts they would clearly see my point. It's not semantics, it is extremely clear and I even clarified it in my last couple posts. I can't do any more, it is obvious you have trouble controlling yourself.

 

[charl_huntress]

I am saying that the term you are using is wrong, the way you are defining Superman's actions are wrong. That is whaty I am saying. It's not just one word, it's your whole debate in regards to Superman & The Kid I agreed with you about leaving Lois, not about him being a deadbeat dad. I said repeatedly that he wasn't a deadbeat dad, he doesn't fit the term, he doesn't fit the definition. If anybody read my posts they would clearly see my point. It's not semantics, it is extremely clear and I even clarified it in my last couple posts. I can't do any more, it is obvious you have trouble controlling yourself.

Some of that doesn't make sense....

Yet, you have a problem with my whole debate. SAY THAT THEN!!!!!!!!!!! Don't keep on about a ****ing word.

 

[charl_huntress]

I read this boards since some times since the beginning of the production, i post on those boards since july.

i had good discussion ..a lot of non sensical one too (but that's my responsability.i could have stop anytime)i've been angered by the behavior of some ..from both "camps".

but if there was one person who is respectful of both "camps" to this day it's Showtime029.

You're way out of line Charl huntress.

Showtime has his ways, and I am calling them out. Everyone KNOWS me by know, so I have nothing to hide.

edit:

Showtime knows me well, so I know he knows.

 

[Showtime]

Some of that doesn't make sense....

Yet, you have a problem with my whole debate. SAY THAT THEN!!!!!!!!!!! Don't keep on about a ****ing word.

I did say that like 10 times. What more can I do. It's the wrong term because his actions were not that of a deadbeat dad, I dont know why that isn't clear?

 

[charl_huntress]

I did say that like 10 times. What more can I do. It's the wrong term because his actions were not that of a deadbeat dad, I dont know why that isn't clear?

You almost agree with everything I say, Showey! Your response to the tough issues is "it's complicated."

C'mon. I let you get away with that. Dont' ty and ping me on your dislike of my usage of deadbeat. You got to let that go because that is also complicated.

 

[Showtime]

You almost agree with everything I say, Showey! Your response to the tough issues is "it's complicated."

C'mon. I let you get away with that. Dont' ty and ping me on your dislike of my usage of deadbeat. You got to let that go because that is also complicated.

I never agreed with you about the deadbeat dad thing, I agreed with you about Superman leaving Lois being debatable. Its all there Charl.

 

[charl_huntress]

I never agreed with you about the deadbeat dad thing, I agreed with you about Superman leaving Lois being debatable. Its all there Charl.

I'm confused as to how that is not a dead-beat dad? Even going by your definitions? He was not supporting his kid. That is dead-beat. For me, Supes is dead-beat because he acted like a coward and irresponsibly put himself in that situation. As I said, the situation equates to the same thing.

Yet, you still have a problem with that word????? I won't go there anymore, but seriously you can't say Supes leaving Lois is "debatable" because there shouldn't be any debate about him LEAVING in the first place.

We are both assuming if he knew he wouldnt' have left, right????? That was the inevitable payoff Singer wanted to show in Singerman, right? So, I'm confused as to why you can debate the issue of Supes being sort of deadbeat without actually applying the term because it fits the circumstance.

 

[Showtime]

I have no idea what you are talking about. How could he support a kid when he didn't know he existed? The only way he is a deadbeat dad is if he now ignores supporting his child once he has returned and he knows. Lois didn't even know she was pregnant when he left supposedly, so I don't get where you are going with this. He can be considered insensitive for leaving Lois and as I said, whatever other name you want to call him, that is opinion. That is what is what am saying and have been all along, over and over and over again. It is not just the word as I have already said several times, it is the term you are using to describe him. It doesn't fit. You are saying he is a deadbeat dad, I am not. You understood this two posts ago, now you dont. Its the wrong term, because he is not one? That is my stance. What more can I do here? I never said that Superman being a deadbeat dad was debatable, just looks up two posts Charl. Man.

 

[charl_huntress]

I have no idea what you are talking about. How could he support a kid when he didn't know he existed?

Because a responsible man doesn't have sex and jet off without a goodbye.

What type of man has kids that he doesn't KNOW about??????????????? This includes a man with superhuman powers named Superman.

The responsible man would not be unawares that his seed was being born. I mean, maybe I am wrong and men of today have bastards running all over the place. I mean...maybe that is the behavior of men today. That could be the behaviour, but I hope that is not what Superman does. Actually, I don't think he would do that, and I support him not doing that.

Supes can destroy the world if he wanted, so he should be thinking about what his pecker is doing when he is using it. Yet, I mean...I could be wrong.

I mean, maybe Superman is just too common for all that, and too selfish, insecure, and dumb to think about the consequences.

The only way he is a deadbeat dad is if he now ignores supporting his child once he has returned and he knows. Lois didn't even know she was pregnant when he left supposedly, so I don't get where you are going with this. He can be considered insensitive for leaving Lois and as I said, whatever other name you want to call him, that is opinion. That is what is what am saying and have been all along, over and over and over again. It is not just the word as I have already said several times, it is the term you are using to describe him. It doesn't fit. You are saying he is a deadbeat dad, I am not. You understood this two posts ago, now you dont. Its the wrong term, because he is not one? That is my stance. What more can I do here? I never said that Superman being a deadbeat dad was debatable, just looks up two posts Charl. Man.

We agree he was insensitive...LOL, but...hmmm...is he deadbeat.

According to Showey: man not paying child support: a man who, upon divorce, separation, or desertion of his family, avoids or refuses payment of child support

Charl: Avoids child support due to separation.


According to Showey: It has historically been used in reference to fathers who fail to act responsibly (as judged by wider society) as a father, that is neglecting their role to act as a parent or bread winner. These men may reside with their children or be separated through divorce or otherwise, with children in the care of their mother.

Charl: Failed to act responsibily, and neglected role of bread winner due to separation. Father does not reside with the child.


According to Showey: a father who neglects his responsibilities as a parent, esp. one who does not pay child support to his estranged wife.

Father neglected initial fatherly duties due to separation, and has since neglected further responsibilities because of job commitments. He doesn not currently pay his child's mother support, nor is support likely to be issued. Edit: Mother is also unaware of father's full time paying job, which means he does have the ability to pay support.

SUPERMAN IS DEADBEAT DAD.

 

[Showtime]

Charl...you are missing the key point, the man has to know he has a child. For some reason you are avoiding that. It's ok though. You can continue on and on and on. If he doesn't do all those things now that he is back, then I agree with you 100%. You can't leave out pieces of my argument, but maybe you can because it's easier for you.

 

[X Knight]

ok......ORDER.....ORDER.........i leave for a couple of hours and a firestorm breaks out......geez......

charl huntress, I agree with everything you are saying. And, I think you are valiantly arguing our point of view. But, I do think you are being a bit harsh on showtime.....no need to call him ( or her ) chauvinistic or anything......Yes, he doesn't see the situation we see it....but showtime is actually giving our viewpoints thought and explaining why he disagrees with us. he's not calling US names and telling us to shut the f*** up.

I mean, look at Maze and me, we've recognized that we don't agree, that we're probably not going to change each others minds..and we've left it at that........but we're not calling each other names.....

Yes, I know it can be frustrating when other people don't see things the way we see it.......but please....ON BOTH SIDES of the argument......let's not call each other names and get hostile.........sigh.

 

[charl_huntress]

Charl...you are missing the key point, the man has to know he has a child. For some reason you are avoiding that. It's ok though. You can continue on and on and on. If he doesn't do all those things now that he is back, then I agree with you 100%. You can't leave out pieces of my argument, but maybe you can because it's easier for you.

What key point Showey? I keep waiting for it?

Is the key point that he acted irresponsibiliy but is excused from the negligence of his behavior of being a deadbeat dad because he didn't know and didn't think it would occur?

Seems Supes should bear some sort of....responsibility for that, but you keep passing the buck off like it's no big deal. Still, according to those definitions you quoted....Supes would still sort of be dead beat. He has not paid a dime of support.

So what is the point I am missing here, Showtime?

I have since tried to re-explain deadbeat, but you keep harkening back to him not being at fault because he didn't know. The real issue is if you lay down and sow the fields...things might grow. An eighth grader is taught that in junior high...so again...what is your damn point?

Supes was irresponsible because he jetted off. That's negligent because there was the oppurtunity for a pregnancy, but he avoided and deserted the situation. Is that not a deadbeat dad.

Not to you...but carry on...because you are sooo smart.

 

[charl_huntress]

ok......ORDER.....ORDER.........i leave for a couple of hours and a firestorm breaks out......geez......

charl huntress, I agree with everything you are saying. And, I think you are valiantly arguing our point of view. But, I do think you are being a bit harsh on showtime.....no need to call him ( or her ) chauvinistic or anything......Yes, he doesn't see the situation we see it....but showtime is actually giving our viewpoints thought and explaining why he disagrees with us. he's not calling US names and telling us to shut the f*** up.

I mean, look at Maze and me, we've recognized that we don't agree, that we're probably not going to change each others minds..and we've left it at that........but we're not calling each other names.....

Yes, I know it can be frustrating when other people don't see things the way we see it.......but please....ON BOTH SIDES of the argument......let's not call each other names and get hostile.........sigh.

I like Showey...don't get it wrong, but he resort to the common Singerman argument and it's old.

We get down to the nitty gritty, but "deadbeat" is holding it up because that's not the right word. I try to show the word and it's definition using his terminology...still not the right word.

Obviously, the point is he doesn't agree with the word. It's the right one, he just doesn't agree. Yet, instead of trying to argue why Singer would make Supes like this...he says....you got the terminology wrong.

I mean...does anyone else see what happen here?

On a side note...what is the right word for what Superman did?

 

[Substance D]

I like Showey...don't get it wrong, but he resort to the common Singerman argument and it's old.

We get down to the nitty gritty, but "deadbeat" is holding it up because that's not the right word. I try to show the word and it's definition using his terminology...still not the right word.

Obviously, the point is he doesn't agree with the word. It's the right one, he just doesn't agree. Yet, instead of trying to argue why Singer would make Supes like this...he says....you got the terminology wrong.

I mean...does anyone else see what happen here?

Um, how long are you guys going to be arguing about this? I remember back when we had that complaints thread, and you were arguing the same stuff. Isn't it time you moved on?

 

[charl_huntress]

Um, how long are you guys going to be arguing about this? I remember back when we had that complaints thread, and you were arguing the same stuff. Isn't it time you moved on?

Nope. I like what I do.

You feel free to move on anytime though.

 

[Substance D]

Nope. I like what I do.

You feel free to move on anytime though.

I have, but ocassionally I need to be reminded about how much SR sucked. I would watch the DVD, but actually watching that travesty would be too much. Secondhand accounts are all I can handle, or else it's too much suckage.

 

[charl_huntress]

I have, but ocassionally I need to be reminded about how much SR sucked. I would watch the DVD, but actually watching that travesty would be too much. Secondhand accounts are all I can handle, or else it's too much suckage.

LOL...Seriously, I just sick of the silly semantic arguments. That annoys me because it's a silly ploy used to make someone look stupid, and it's dumb. You hit the end and the only thing left is someone word usage. When I need an editor I won't be on the boards looking for one.

One that note...I'm finally out.

Keep the semantics to a friggin min.

 

[Substance D]

LOL...Seriously, I just sick of the silly semantic arguments. That annoys me because it's a silly ploy used to make someone look stupid, and it's dumb. You hit the end and the only thing left is someone word usage. When I need an editor I won't be on the boards looking for one.

One that note...I'm finally out.

Keep the semantics to a friggin min.

One that note? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[charl_huntress]

One that note? That doesn't make any sense.

lol...suckat:

 

[X Knight]

yes.....I see it.....I feel your pain too charl huntress.........

I know I have said all this before, and it won't make a bit of difference. But, I will try to lay out the reasons why ppl like myself, charl, mego joe, etc. feel like Superman was irresponsible, and why we don't buy the "He's not irresponsible because he didn't know." And, I will try to do so in a polite and civilized manner........

Superman was irresponsible because he helped to create a life, yet he did not even stay around to raise that life.

Superman made a conscious descision to have sex with Lois. He made that choice. Whether it was unprotected or not, the fact is that Superman and Lois, 2 consenting adults, decided to have sex. Now, at their age, I think it is safe to assume that both would know that having sex leads to the possibility of pregnancy.

So, Superman took part in an act that could possibly get Lois pregnant. Most likely, he knew of that possibility, that by having sex, there is the chance that a child will be created.

Yet, even knowing that, he choose not to stick around to find out the outcome. Instead, he consciously chose to go on a journey that would take a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time, a journey that would take him FAR AWAY from earth.

As showtime and others have said, if Superman had known he was to be a father, he wouldn't have left. I think we can all agree on that.

Yet, why didn't Superman know Lois was pregnant? Why didn't he know he was to become a father?

Well, because, according to Singer's context, Superman didn't even stick around long enough to find it if he got Lois pregnant. He didn't even stick around long enough for Lois to tell him, either.

So, Superman placed HIMSELF in a position of not knowing. That is, Superman's "not knowing he had a child on the way" was HIS FAULT, not Lois', not anyone else's.

And that, my friends, is why ppl like myself, charl huntress, mego joe, feel that Superman was irresponsible. It's like he didn't even entertain the possiblity that Lois could get pregnant. It's like he had his fun, did his deed, but didn't even follow up to see if Lois would get pregnant.

Anyway you look at that, that is irresponsible and immature. Whether you want to call that "Deadbeat dad" or whatever, what Superman did was totally irresponsible behaviour. He HAD to know there was a CHANCE that Lois could get pregnant. Yet, did he even bother to find out, at the very least, to get an "all clear" to leave? No, he didn't.....

And, with that, I am done too........

 

[Kevin Roegele]

After watching the surprise ending to the Donner Cut, I realized SR fits directly into this timeline.

It doesn't. Donner's Superman II explicitly states that Superman can't be with Lois.