Superman in the Marvel Universe (a purely theoretical discussion)

[Raiden]

The difference, of course, being that Superman is a fictional character, so he doesn't actually have choices.

People who own his copyrights do, and they just might decide to have him leave his former team (DC) for a new team (Marvel).

It's a wistful thinking, but I hope it will come true someday.

 

[herakles]

The difference, of course, being that Superman is a fictional character, so he doesn't actually have choices.

Superman is fictional...!














jk

 

[Hmarrs]

The difference, of course, being that Superman is a fictional character, so he doesn't actually have choices.

I know....I was referring to the Siegal Family.DUHHHHHHH,Just kidding.
They have choices of what the outcome of their fathers talents are just as Jordan has the choice of what to do with his talents.

 

[Hmarrs]

I think this is a hard concept to grasp since we all love Superman many of us can't imagine him not being in the DC universe but I ask you to take a step back regroup and then revisit this idea.I mentioned this in another thread.DC Comics Thread and they almost ate my head off.Like it was my fault or somthing.I'm just a messanger.I just put out the article .I read in the NEW YORK TIMES.But it goes to show you how unwilling to accept the possibilities of change are.

 

[fifthfiend]

IIRC DC still retains partial rights to the character? Along with the copyrights on like all of Supes' iconic villains and sidekicks and suchlike. So I feel ultimately it will simply be worth more to Time Warner to hold the entirety of the character than it will be to Marvel to own what amounts to half a copyright.

Like if this were a game of Monopoly then the Siegels would be holding the deed to Pennsylvania Avenue, it's worth more to DC as the guy with the other two green properties than it is to Marvel as the guy who already has hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk.

 

[Hmarrs]

IIRC DC still retains partial rights to the character? Along with the copyrights on like all of Supes' iconic villains and sidekicks and suchlike. So I feel ultimately it will simply be worth more to Time Warner to hold the entirety of the character than it will be to Marvel to own what amounts to half a copyright.

Like if this were a game of Monopoly then the Siegels would be holding the deed to Pennsylvania Avenue, it's worth more to DC as the guy with the other two green properties than it is to Marvel as the guy who already has hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk.

Okay.But if you were a Marvel wouldn't you want a hold on your competitor even if it is a small one.Or half man I like to own Half of the Coke Cola formula or even some stock.Somthing is somthing.If you were Dc would you want to say your main Character with Marvel?Or Coke with Pepsi???Imagine Burger King owning a third of Mcdonalds fries????
When you play Monopoly if the other guy has two properties and he needs the last one to build hotels and you got it.Then he is strapped and can't build.I know I have won games this way.I will make it my business to buy a piece of everything.Making sure a have at least one set,I will then go on to build on my own and destroy everyone.Hence the name Monopoly.I just gave away the secret to winning.SHHHHHHHHHHHHH....

 

[Hmarrs]

IIRC DC still retains partial rights to the character? Along with the copyrights on like all of Supes' iconic villains and sidekicks and suchlike. So I feel ultimately it will simply be worth more to Time Warner to hold the entirety of the character than it will be to Marvel to own what amounts to half a copyright.

Like if this were a game of Monopoly then the Siegels would be holding the deed to Pennsylvania Avenue, it's worth more to DC as the guy with the other two green properties than it is to Marvel as the guy who already has hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk.

Also the way it went down is like this.
The Siegels have won all rights to the very first issue of Superman.
Now they are debating how much of what derived from that first issue
Villians,Sidekicks etc.They have the rights to.Their debating that right now.
Even if they get nothing else,that alone is enough.Marvel could redo the story and start Superman all over again.Now you know they will make all the characters all over again with a different name different spelling and look slightly different.EX.If it were Batman and if it were the Joker it would probably be somthing like the Jester.

 

[Hmarrs]

You know I just thought of somthing maybe that's why they had him die.
To beat this case think about it.He is not Superman he is the Resurected Superman.Get it and what do you tell me about Earth 1 Superman???Maybe those were loop holes to say oh well that Superman was the Earth 1 Superman now it's the Earth 2 Superman or whatever I could never keep up with all that.But they could say the Earth 2 Superman is ours theirs was Earth1 I always wondered why they did all that think about it.I don't know because right now Captain America is dead and their is a case comming up for him as well.And now marvel Has a New Captain America?????Not only that but captain America's shield has changed.If Joe simon or his family it's going to court now again because of Superman.But if they took back Cap.It would have to be with the old Shield and the old outfit.HMMMMMMMMMMMM..............Coincidence I don't think so.

 

[Franklin Richards]

That argument never worked for The Human Torch so I doubt it will float for Superman.

 

[Hmarrs]

That argument never worked for The Human Torch so I doubt it will float for Superman.

I don't get it can you elaborate?

 

[Franklin Richards]

The old Fantastic Four cartoon with HERBIE didn't have the Human Torch in it. Some people thought this was due to the controversial nature of his powers but that wasn't it. He wasn't in the cartoon because someone else had the right to the Original Human Torch from the 40's who was an android.

Even though this Torch was completely different he was a character that Marvel had created and admittedly was an homage to the original Torch. Similar to the difference between Golden Age Green Lantern and Silver Age Green Lantern.

Anywho they couldn't use the FF's Torch because the original Torch's rights were sold to someone else.

 

[Hmarrs]

The old Fantastic Four cartoon with HERBIE didn't have the Human Torch in it. Some people thought this was due to the controversial nature of his powers but that wasn't it. He wasn't in the cartoon because someone else had the right to the Original Human Torch from the 40's who was an android.

Even though this Torch was completely different he was a character that Marvel had created and admittedly was an homage to the original Torch. Similar to the difference between Golden Age Green Lantern and Silver Age Green Lantern.

Anywho they couldn't use the FF's Torch because the original Torch's rights were sold to someone else.
I remember that Torch from the Invaders but wow I didn't know that.Do you think it's because Marvel Admitted it was in homage to the old Torch?Because if you deny it they have to prove it but if you openly admit it then that's different.
Or were they too much in likeness?
Also who had the rights and how did they get it back?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Even if Marvel hadn't admitted the FF Torch was an homage to the Golden Age Torch, I'm pretty sure whoever owned the rights to the latter could prove that there's enough similarity between the two to win if they went to court. They're both guys who are totally on fire--literally the only visual difference is that Johnny's eyes and mouth are visible when he's on fire.

Even though this Torch was completely different he was a character that Marvel had created and admittedly was an homage to the original Torch. Similar to the difference between Golden Age Green Lantern and Silver Age Green Lantern.

Hasn't DC always held the rights to both versions of GL?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Yeah. I was just trying to illustrate the whole different / same thing.

That does make me curious about when Warner Bros got involved. Or have they always owned DC?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wikipedia says 1969.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Wow. Not really that long ago in the scheme of things.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I thought it would be in the 40s or 50s.

 

[Wally West]

Edit: The title of the thread should be Superman in the Marvel universe (a purely HYPOTHETICAL discussion) - I hate it when I screw up a thread title.

O.K. before any of you decide to post and tell me how this isn't gonna happen, I'll save you some time - I'm certain the odds of this happening are ASTRONOMICALLY LOW, if there is in fact even a chance at all. It's just interesting to think about, and I thought it might make for an interesting thread.

Obviously I'm hoping this doesn't turn into speculation over what will happen with Superman's rights and legal situation. There are more appropriate threads for that in the Superman forums.

I'm more interested on hearing your thoughts as to how the basic Superman concept could be intergrated into and expanded on with-in the Marvel universe, and where he would fit, which characters you'd most like to see him interact with, which villians you'd like to see him face off with, those types of things.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Personally, I think Joe Quesada is a very professional man, unlike his DC counterpart, and would not integrate Superman into the Marvel Universe out of respect to DC Comics and it's fans, even if the Siegels and Shuster Estate went up to him and offered it to him. That and various legal reasons concerning DC's trademarks that I don't think Quesada would even want to touch upon.

Also, Superman in the Marvel Universe would just be awful. He really doesn't fit in there IMO. Marvel is a universe where asides from Spider-Man due to magic, every major superhero there has a public identity. Everyone knows who Captain America is, who Iron Man is, who Thor is, who Daredevil is, etc. Superman's secret identity, especially with the way he hides it, would look just silly there.

Metropolis would feel odd on account of every major hero asides from the X-Men, being based in New York City.

And a Marvel Superman would be incredibly gimped due to DC owning all of the trademarks concerning Superman. He wouldn't have the famous \S/ symbol, he can't fly, etc. He'd just be an incredibly strong man which Marvel already has with Luke Cage. And the only interesting villain of Superman's rogues gallery that would be transfered would be Lex Luthor, all of the other good ones like Brainiac, General Zod, and Bizarro are owned fully by DC.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Personally, I think Joe Quesada is a very professional man, unlike his DC counterpart, and would not integrate Superman into the Marvel Universe out of respect to DC Comics and it's fans, even if the Siegels and Shuster Estate went up to him and offered it to him. That and various legal reasons concerning DC's trademarks that I don't think Quesada would even want to touch upon.

Also, Superman in the Marvel Universe would just be awful. He really doesn't fit in there IMO. Marvel is a universe where asides from Spider-Man due to magic, every major superhero there has a public identity. Everyone knows who Captain America is, who Iron Man is, who Thor is, who Daredevil is, etc. Superman's secret identity, especially with the way he hides it, would look just silly there.

Metropolis would feel odd on account of every major hero asides from the X-Men, being based in New York City.

And a Marvel Superman would be incredibly gimped due to DC owning all of the trademarks concerning Superman. He wouldn't have the famous \S/ symbol, he can't fly, etc. He'd just be an incredibly strong man which Marvel already has with Luke Cage. And the only interesting villain of Superman's rogues gallery that would be transfered would be Lex Luthor, all of the other good ones like Brainiac, General Zod, and Bizarro are owned fully by DC.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Here is the REAL thread.

 

[Wally West]

Personally, I think Joe Quesada is a very professional man, unlike his DC counterpart, and would not integrate Superman into the Marvel Universe out of respect to DC Comics and it's fans, even if the Siegels and Shuster Estate went up to him and offered it to him. That and various legal reasons concerning DC's trademarks that I don't think Quesada would even want to touch upon.

Also, Superman in the Marvel Universe would just be awful. He really doesn't fit in there IMO. Marvel is a universe where asides from Spider-Man due to magic, every major superhero there has a public identity. Everyone knows who Captain America is, who Iron Man is, who Thor is, who Daredevil is, etc. Superman's secret identity, especially with the way he hides it, would look just silly there.

Metropolis would feel odd on account of every major hero asides from the X-Men, being based in New York City.

And a Marvel Superman would be incredibly gimped due to DC owning all of the trademarks concerning Superman. He wouldn't have the famous \S/ symbol, he can't fly, etc. He'd just be an incredibly strong man which Marvel already has with Luke Cage. And the only interesting villain of Superman's rogues gallery that would be transfered would be Lex Luthor, all of the other good ones like Brainiac, General Zod, and Bizarro are owned fully by DC.

Oh no, I haven't read a Spiderman comic in awhile...are you saying that his public unmasking in Civil War has been undone with magic? That sounds weak...

 

[Tron Bonne]

Him and MJ made a deal with the villain Mephisto that undid their marriage, and along with that the memory of his identity has been erased. So technically the unmasking wasn't 'undone', because Pete still unmasked, but no one remembers it was him. Kind of like there's a big censor blur there in everyone's minds.

There's more to it, but that's it in a nutshell

 

[Anubis]

Let's just say it's effin' stupid and leave it at that.

 

[MadVillainy]

yeah thats one thing that I dont like much about the current Marvelverse...too many public identities

on topic: Superman is just a very different from the Marvel characters. Maybe its just because Im used to him in the DC universe but I cant picture him talking to and cooperating on MArvel heroes on a near regular basis