Superman & Lois Superman & Lois Original Discussion Thread

[SupermanFan]

Thank you for pointing out the obvious. And if my problem were simply that you responded to me, this would be the appropriate response. But that wasn't the problem.

I made a statement that I think words like overrated and underrated are overused. Obviously hit a nerve, don’t like how I respond then ignore me but as I said I stand by what I said.

Anyway moving on...

 

[vantheman77]

I want to see them tackle the following omics storylines in Superman & Lois:

Peace On Earth

Worlds At War

H'el On Earth

New Krypton

Return To Krypton

Unity Saga

Strange Visitor

Camelot

World of New Krypton

Last Stand of New Krypton

For Tomorrow

Godfall

 

[SupermanFan]

There are so many untouched stories. I really think the next crossover should adapt Panic in the Sky where Superman recruits a team to take the fight to Brainiac.

 

[Flash525]

You’re not even following your own logic.

I’m not. I responded to what you said. If you meant something else, it wasn’t expressed well.

If the show is about Superman and/or his son, it’s not so much about Superman and Lois; they might as well

There are so many untouched stories. I really think the next crossover should adapt Panic in the Sky where Superman recruits a team to take the fight to Brainiac.

I’m all for taking on, and out Brainiac, but I honestly think they’d be better off doing a four parter between Supergirl and Superman for this. They can still introduce other heroes, but focus on the Kryptonians.

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, Supergirl makes Brainiac better as a villain, imo. He’s like her long lost Krypton-rooted boogeyman. I’d prefer to see her included in a Brainiac-centric story. This is like the perfect rare opportunity to do one with both Kryptonians, so do it.

 

[vantheman77]

Make sure the bottled City of Kandor is included.

I think I’ve said this before that the one story I hope they don’t do is Doomsday because that’s been done one too many times.

I want Tyler’s Superman to go out in All-Star style even if it includes sitting on the clouds.

 

[WhoMani]

I hope the show doesn't use Zod for a while as he's been overused in recent years and the idea of seeing a live action Superman face off against Brainiac actually excites me as I wanted to see that for years. Hopefully it does a better job with villains that've already appeared on Supergirl such as Metallo or Parasite as they both been fairly wasted on that show.

 

[The Batman]

I made a statement that I think words like overrated and underrated are overused. Obviously hit a nerve, don’t like how I respond then ignore me but as I said I stand by what I said.

Anyway moving on...

No. You ended your paragraph essentially trying to tell me what I meant by my own statement:

So it’s more a case of you don’t think he’s that great rather than he’s overrated.

Except that's not the case. I said what I said and I meant it the way I said it. I don't have to ignore a thing, "people will respond to your posts whether you like it or not", remember?

 

[SupermanFan]

If the show is about Superman and/or his son, it’s not so much about Superman and Lois; they might as well

I’m all for taking on, and out Brainiac, but I honestly think they’d be better off doing a four parter between Supergirl and Superman for this. They can still introduce other heroes, but focus on the Kryptonians.

That would really work. I have wondered if instead of doing one crossover next time that they might do a few separate ones, so say Flash cross over with BL, Batwoman with Green Arrow & the Canaries and Superman & Supergirl.

No. You ended your paragraph essentially trying to tell me what I meant by my own statement:

Except that's not the case. I said what I said and I meant it the way I said it. I don't have to ignore a thing, "people will respond to your posts whether you like it or not", remember?

Yeah because I don’t think overrated is a thing and especially the way you were trying to make out fans only liked Tyler’s so much because Henry’s has been polarising. To be quite frank I think that’s complete bulls***. I’m also living proof that isn’t the case. So I was giving my perception on it.

Anyway...

 

[SupermanFan]

I hope the show doesn't use Zod for a while as he's been overused in recent years and the idea of seeing a live action Superman face off against Brainiac actually excites me as I wanted to see that for years. Hopefully it does a better job with villains that've already appeared on Supergirl such as Metallo or Parasite as they both been fairly wasted on that show.

With Zod been dead unless it’s a Resurrection or flashbacks I think he’s highly unlikely to appear.

I thought SG did a great job with Metallo myself. I liked their version of the Parasite but he was wiped out straight away which bugged me.

 

[LifesEnd]

I don't want to think about brainiac in cw budget...Krypton's one was soo good.

 

[famicommander]

I don't want to think about brainiac in cw budget...Krypton's one was soo good.

You do understand that the CW shows have several times the budget that Krypton did, no?

 

[flickchick85]

I don’t think that’s true. Maybe seasonal budget since they had a small episode count, but per-episode? I just can’t buy that.

I thought that show generally sucked, but the one thing it had going for it was that it looked nice and expensive.

 

[Flash525]

I hope the show doesn't use Zod for a while as he's been overused in recent years and the idea of seeing a live action Superman face off against Brainiac actually excites me as I wanted to see that for years. Hopefully it does a better job with villains that've already appeared on Supergirl such as Metallo or Parasite as they both been fairly wasted on that show.

Honestly, I’d be quite happy if they used the Brainiac (actor) from Krypton. That version was solid, though the plot might need a bit of tweaking. It’s not as if they have to link the shows together.

That would really work. I have wondered if instead of doing one crossover next time that they might do a few separate ones, so say Flash cross over with BL, Batwoman with Green Arrow & the Canaries and Superman & Supergirl.

If Superman goes live, depending how they end Crisis (will there be multiple Earths left, or just the one?) I highly expect Superman and Supergirl to have several crossovers. In fact, I’d be disappointed if they didn’t.

I’m hoping Batwoman and the Canaries show is replaced with something better, at least I could accept the Canaries show if they removed Mia from it. Focus on Laurel, Dinah and Sara and I’m happy enough to give it a shot!

Furthermore, if Melissa doesn’t renew her contract once it’s up, there’s quite literally nothing from stopping her first starring in Superman every so often.

I don't want to think about brainiac in cw budget...Krypton's one was soo good.

All the more reason to get that version on the CW.

 

[Boy Scout]

I imagine she’d want to separate herself from the Supergirl character if she decided to love on, so past the first season, I don’t see her guest starring all that often.

 

[famicommander]

I don’t think that’s true. Maybe seasonal budget since they had a small episode count, but per-episode? I just can’t buy that.

I thought that show generally sucked, but the one thing it had going for it was that it looked nice and expensive.

There is zero chance any show at SyFy has the budget of a CW DC show. SyFy's viewership is minuscule in comparison and its availability isn't close to CW's. The best rated show on SyFy does lower ratings than any show on CW except the late Friday night slot for Dynasty, a cheap soapy drama.

Krypton did indeed look good, but it's not because they were spending more on it. I would guess it was because there was comparatively much less CG work to do as well as a much easier schedule, as putting a show on broadcast TV is much more hectic than a short season cable show.

Krypton probably also prioritized effects more than the other shows; ie, Supergirl or Flash is probably paying their actors a higher percentage.

 

[flickchick85]

There is zero chance any show at SyFy has the budget of a CW DC show. SyFy's viewership is minuscule in comparison and its availability isn't close to CW's. The best rated show on SyFy does lower ratings than any show on CW except the late Friday night slot for Dynasty, a cheap soapy drama.

Krypton did indeed look good, but it's not because they were spending more on it. I would guess it was because there was comparatively much less CG work to do as well as a much easier schedule, as putting a show on broadcast TV is much more hectic than a short season cable show.

Krypton probably also prioritized effects more than the other shows; ie, Supergirl or Flash is probably paying their actors a higher percentage.

Cable series have the advantage of not being entirely dependent on advertisers for their budgets. Much like FX, AMC, and other basic cable outlets, people have to pay to subscribe to SyFy (not like premium cable of course, it’s in cable bundles and they only get a tiny percentage), so they CAN have higher per-episode budgets than broadcast network shows, largely because they are allowed shorter seasons. You trying to tell me stuff like Taboo and The Terror have smaller per-ep budgets than the CW? Hell no. Broadcast networks are free to their viewers, cable outlets aren’t. That’s why the ratings are typically automatically higher for broadcast networks unless we’re talking a mega-hit on cable like TWD. But that’s also why it matters less - because cable has a 2nd source of funding to make up the difference. Especially as The CW has smaller budgets than any broadcast network, they are the bottom of the barrel.

Now, I can buy that Krypton had a smaller per-SEASON budget than a CW show, since they had less than half the episode count, but not per-episode, unless you can find me a source that says otherwise.

 

[famicommander]

Cable series have the advantage of not being entirely dependent on advertisers for their budgets. Much like FX, AMC, and other basic cable outlets, people have to pay to subscribe to SyFy (not like premium cable of course, it’s in cable bundles and they only get a tiny percentage), so they CAN have higher per-episode budgets than broadcast network shows, largely because they are allowed shorter seasons. You trying to tell me stuff like Taboo and The Terror have smaller per-ep budgets than the CW? Hell no. Broadcast networks are free to their viewers, cable outlets aren’t. That’s why the ratings are typically automatically higher for broadcast networks unless we’re talking a mega-hit on cable like TWD. But that’s also why it matters less - because cable has a 2nd source of funding to make up the difference. Especially as The CW has smaller budgets than any broadcast network, they are the bottom of the barrel.

Now, I can buy that Krypton had a smaller per-SEASON budget than a CW show, since they had less than half the episode count, but not per-episode, unless you can find me a source that says otherwise.

You can't just throw out various different cable networks and shows as if they are interchangeable. SyFy is TINY compared to FX or AMC. Aside from Flash, nothing on CW does numbers that would be impressive on those two networks and both have shows that outrate it.

But Black Lightning easily out-rates everything on SyFy, and that's 9th out of 12 current CW shows and likely headed for a 4 season and done dismissal.

The fact that the production studio for Krypton is Warner Horizon instead of WBTV should tell you all you need to know. WBTV makes higher budget shows for the big 4, CW, cable, streaming services, and premium channels. Warner Horizon makes lower budget shows exclusively for cable and subscription.

David Goyer did go out of his way to say that Krypton was more expensive than SyFy and Warner would have liked, in large part due to prop and set design.

But if they were really spending that much per episode they'd have targeted a bigger platform than SyFy, and the big studios at WB would have produced it.

 

[flickchick85]

You can't just throw out various different cable networks and shows as if they are interchangeable. SyFy is TINY compared to FX or AMC. Aside from Flash, nothing on CW does numbers that would be impressive on those two networks and both have shows that outrate it.

But Black Lightning easily out-rates everything on SyFy, and that's 9th out of 12 current CW shows and likely headed for a 4 season and done dismissal.

The fact that the production studio for Krypton is Warner Horizon instead of WBTV should tell you all you need to know. WBTV makes higher budget shows for the big 4, CW, cable, streaming services, and premium channels. Warner Horizon makes lower budget shows exclusively for cable and subscription.

David Goyer did go out of his way to say that Krypton was more expensive than SyFy and Warner would have liked, in large part due to prop and set design.

But if they were really spending that much per episode they'd have targeted a bigger platform than SyFy.

FX’s ratings are absolutely comparable to the CW’s, with one show getting slightly higher than The Flash, a bunch of .3’s, and several .1’s, yet their shows are obviously more expensive, because they’ve got that added cable funding. That was my point - the different business model at play. Now obviously, SyFy is indeed smaller than FX and doesn’t get their budgets, but to try and tell me Krypton didn’t even have per-episode budgets comparable to the bottom of the broadcast barrel? Nah, I’m gonna need a source on that.

The CW shows have about a $65-70mil seasonal budget. Which gives them about a $2.5-3mil per episode budget. But even if Krypton only had, say, a $40mil seasonal budget, with their 10-ep season that would be $4 million per-ep budget over the CW shows and that difference would definitely show on screen. SyFy was spending $2mil per episode on Battlestar Galactica back in 2008, so if Krypton was “expensive for SyFy” in 2019 you can bet it costs a great deal more than that because those costs are only going up.

 

[famicommander]

FX’s ratings are absolutely comparable to the CW’s, with one show getting slightly higher than The Flash, a bunch of .3’s, and several .1’s, yet their shows are obviously more expensive, because they’ve got that added cable funding. That was my point - the different business model at play. Now obviously, SyFy is indeed smaller than FX and doesn’t get their budgets, but to try and tell me Krypton didn’t even have per-episode budgets comparable to the bottom of broadcast barrel? Nah, I’m gonna need a source on that.

There is only one reason a show ends up at Warner Horizon instead of Warner Bros Television. That reason is how much they are willing to spend to produce it and what they think the ceiling for it is on return on investment.

And FX at the moment only has one show doing well, but they generally have a hit that is orders of magnitude more popular than anything on CW (AHS, Sons of Anarchy, etc).

Nothing on SyFy has ever been close to that level, and consequently the network heads at SyFy aren't given as much leeway to procure shows that cost much more than the network's ad base can support.

There's little chance we're finding itemized per show budgets for these shows but it's basic deduction.

Warner Horizon is the budget studio. They make cheap shows for cheap platforms.

Every show WB has on Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, CW, HBO, or Showtime came from Warner Bros, as well as all the higher budget ones on basic cable, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc. Warner Horizon's only shows are the absolute cheapest ones on basic cable or subscription services:

• “Animal Kingdom” and “Claws” for TNT
• “Cherish the Day,” “David Makes Man” and “Queen Sugar” for OWN
• “The Flight Attendant” for HBO Max
• “Fuller House,” “Medical Police” and “You” for Netflix
• “Pennyworth” for EPIX
• and “The Right Stuff” for National Geographic

 

[flickchick85]

As I said in my edit to my previous post, SyFy was spending $2mil per ep on a show over 10 years ago. If Goyer says they’re expensive for SyFy in 2019 (and also says they’re spending $1mil per ep on visual effects alone), then logic dictates they were likely spending a notably more than that on Krypton. And very likely more than the $2.5mil per ep The Flash costs, as visual effects do not make up half of a show’s budget.

Warner Horizons may be cheaper than its sibling, but they did Political Animals which had a $4 mil per episode budget a few years ago, and they do The Voice, which has a $2.3mil per ep budget, so they’re obviously capable of producing a show at CW level or higher.

 

[famicommander]

As I said in my edit to my previous post, SyFy was spending $2mil per ep on a show over 10 years ago. If Goyer says they’re expensive for SyFy in 2019 (and also says they’re spending $1mil per ep on visual effects alone), then logic dictates they were likely spending a notably more than that on Krypton. And very likely more than the $2.5mil per ep The Flash costs, as visual effects do not make up half of a show’s budget.

Warner Horizons may be cheaper than its sibling, but they did “Political Animals” which had a $4 mil per episode budget a few years ago, and they do The Voice, which has a $2.3mil per ep budget, so they’re obviously capable of producing a show at CW level or higher.

They said more expensive than Syfy would want, not more expensive than they have done in the past.

And again, there is absolutely zero reason a DC Comics show MORE EXPENSIVE than The Flash would end up at Horizon. Horizon is the budget studio.

Horizon exists for a singular purpose, and it's to produce content cheap enough to air on lesser platforms or on major platforms for a lower fee.

And Horizon Unscripted is a different studio entirely from Horizon Scripted or WBTV.

 

[flickchick85]

Political Animals wasn’t unscripted, Queen Sugar, another Warner Horizon show, has a budget of over $3.5mil per ep, and Goyer said they spent more on Krypton than they wanted, which means potentially more than Warner Horizon had expected to when they signed on with them. And hey, they were cancelled - shocker there. The evidence is on the screen, man. The numbers we’re talking about are so comparable anyway, I don’t know why you’re finding it so hard to believe. Warner Horizon is certainly capable of spending the kind of money we’re talking about.

And btw, the company’s overall investment would still be MUCH cheaper than the Flash anyway, due to episode counts. So if Krypton cost, say, $35-40 mil per season, then the cost of 2 seasons of Krypton would be just over that of ONE season of The Flash. Yet the per-episode budgets of Krypton would still be higher.

 

[SupermanFan]

I don't want to think about brainiac in cw budget...Krypton's one was soo good.[/QUOTE

They could always get the same actor from Krypton and get the suit of storage. After all they aren’t using it for that show anymore.

 

[The Batman]

Yeah because I don’t think overrated is a thing and especially the way you were trying to make out fans only liked Tyler’s so much because Henry’s has been polarising. To be quite frank I think that’s complete bulls***. I’m also living proof that isn’t the case. So I was giving my perception on it.

Anyway...

First off, I never claimed that was the only reason Tyler was liked so much. I was agreeing with someone else's take on it, and added another reason to what he said. What you think about that is immaterial to me, "To be frank". The only reason I bothered to respond to you was that, again, you took it upon yourself to try to explain to me what I meant by my own statement.

Also, if you actually want to move on from having this conversation, you can take your own advice about ignoring posts.