Sequels Superman: The Reboot - How Would You Do It?

[The Major]

Jochimus:

Can you explain what you mean by "fringes" in that statement?

 

[Jochimus]

I mean Steel can barely support his own title, let alone an entire movie. Same with Supergirl and Catwoman; they can never keep a steady run on a title going for more than a few years at a time, and some just aren't as good as others.

 

[The Major]

I mean Steel can barely support his own title, let alone an entire movie.

He's done better then Blade after Blade's films were released.

What does this have anything to do with creatively making a film?

Same with Supergirl and Catwoman; they can never keep a steady run on a title going for more than a few years at a time, and some just aren't as good as others.

That's your argument? You've got to be joking.

Catwoman just finished a second series which lasted over 80 issues.

There are plenty of story lines form the second series they could use to make a few films.

Supergirl has untapped potential in film, too. There are many interesting directions they could take her.

 

[Jochimus]

He's done better then Blade after Blade's films were released.

What does this have anything to do with creatively making a film?

Blade's easier to make into a stand-alone character, because IIRC he didn't start out with any memorable ties to any of the other Marvel Universe characters. Steel, on the other hand, owes his life and his career as a superhero to Superman; you're not doing justice to the character if Superman isn't part of his origin (S:TAS at least got THIS much right, even though the episode itself wasn't anything too special). I think most of us know by now that creativity in a comic-book movie is nothing without at least the slightest iota of respect for the tone and spirit of the original source, which means somehow that Superman has to be involved beyond simply having his shield tattooed on the guy's arm.

That's your argument? You've got to be joking.

Catwoman just finished a second series which lasted over 80 issues.

There are plenty of story lines form the second series they could use to make a few films.

That's why I said some runs weren't as good as others. And granted, the existing Catwoman movie is a helluva lot more faithless than Shaq's STEEL was, but people who go into a Catwoman movie would probably STILL expect Batman to show up at some point, and justifiably so, even if they don't know who Selina Kyle is (although after "Batman Returns" and the recent spate of animated shows, I would think that would be in at least some dispute).

Supergirl has untapped potential in film, too. There are many interesting directions they could take her.

As long as they ignore the current comic, maybe. David's run was nice, but Matrix/Linda Danvers' origin was convoluted as hell, so there's no way THAT version of Supergirl is ever getting to the screen even if WB did take the prospect of another Supergirl movie seriously.

I guess my overall point is that Steel and Supergirl wouldn't be who they are without Superman's involvement, and Catwoman is well known as the general public as Batman's rooftop dancing partner...but trying to do individual movies about them without compromising those origins or being completely slavish to the "big guns" would be a very difficult proposition (probably more so than just doing a straight-up Batman or Superman movie), even for those creative parties who would at least have tried...and so far only the Salkinds, of all people, have made that list, dubious as the finished product was.

 

[zenith16]

I've been talking about this with others on the electric play ground forums and I don't see a point to another reboot so early


with all the other director's in Holly wood that aren't Robert Rodriguez from sin city who don't care about comic movies other then to make money from it. the reason is simple the first two were classic and respected the comic back in the day. if they start over you'll be seeing remake after remake til the people/audience fan base of the comic's and those movies get sick of it. Cause the new ones don't have any resemblance of those books what the fans and audience loved about it and the never ending complaints will be worse then what we see now.

They kept saying the first 2 superman movies were fine, so their going from there. that part ain't broke.

BTW if you really want to know what people who are complaining right now the problem is it's the fact that Loise and superman had a kid. And it's actually guys like mark millers age and half the guys older that want to write for the comic industry that were teens in the 1980's and 40 and over to a degree or reaching there now. they have issues with the comic super hero characters ether staying married no matter how young or old they are or having a kid to a degree for some reason.

after looking at what they did to spider man, cyclops, capt Britain in marvel they ether kill or try the best to make whom ever their married to( the women ) not be with the person they married of most resent years.


I don't think singer did THAT BAD REALLY. THEY JUST NEED TO MOVE ON WITH WHAT THEY HAVE AND ADD VILLAINS LIKE Brainiac or Darkseid. KEEP THE KID IT'LL ONLY ADD TO WHAT SUPER MAN IS fighting FOR. AND ALLOW TRANSITION IF HE SHOULD DIE OR GET OLD. THERE THERE'S ONLY SO LONG THIS GUY CAN GO ON YOU KNOW.

But some of those guys don't get that. or want to.
ah well. any way think they should keep the kid.

Cause of what my fellow poster ozz said here on this last page.

I was talking about this the other day with a friend who is a huge supes fan

The way superman returns finished off leaves a lot of storyline potential, but they need to up the ante, Superman is a powerful hero, he either has to be brought down to face a threat of human scale, or a powerful villain has to be brought in to balance against him. Since he is capable of so much, the scale of threat has to be significant.

If I had my druthers I would make the next Superman villains more powerful Lex Luthor could still be in it (trying to manipulate the other villains into doing his dirty work because unless he gets his suit - which some might find cheesy, he really cant do it himself). To really humanize Superman and "weaken" him without copping out and using Kryptonite or a cheesy effect like in Superman 2, Jimmy, Lois or his child will have to be specifically targetted by the new villains. (if it's Jimmy they'd need to build that relationship up a bit more in the film). Alternatively a clear dramatic threat to all of humanity (Who Aren't superpowered) would represent a good alternative.

That means there has to be a dramatic emotional component to the film, and that superman will find his dramatic tension from their being targetted. Creating tension and conflict from That source, rather than just copping out and weakening him. So what if he's super, he's still a man - subject to other kinds of weakness than physical. Emotional/Psychological weaknesses. And they dont have to be done in an extremely cerebral or overly dramatic way. Looking at Spiderman - while he remained vulnerable, Mary Jane was often at risk in the films adding an extra note to the storyline/storytelling.

I honestly don't see Singer as getting in the way of the film, and feel the plot of the last film while well planned, just needed more oomph

Potential villains imo: Metallo (mostly as a flunky), Darkseid (tho apokolips would have to be toned down or only hinted at to keep the film from getting too cheesy), Luthor (mastermind exclusively), Brainiac

If I was doing the film, I would be using Star Wars for inspiration in some respects (at least the opening scene of ANH with the Star Destroyer - in relation to perhaps Darkseid or Brainiac - a nice dramatic powerful silent shot that shows the huge threat that's coming).

from here.
http://bb.elecplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=10619&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

i'm not interested in a major cast and reboot. Bryan didn't do any thing wrong. it's just every ones tired of the same lex luthor formula. the kid that Clark and Lois have can be used properly it could work out well and adds something new to c larks personal fight as well as professional.

nah I don't see a point to a reboot any more. especially after seeing this video enough times
HypaSpace Weekly - Super Special!
HypaSpace Weekly with Kim Poirier.

http://www.spacecast.com/wvx/2007/01/hs_weekly070102.wvx he was just expanding the story.

 

[Anubis]

If I were gonna do this movie, I'd keep Lex, cuz, lets face it, Lex isn't the sorta villain that you can just put on the back burner. He's almost like a supporting cast member really. And if we're talking about an origin story, then he pretty much has to be present. But, he doesn't have to be the main catalyst.

With Lex, the thing they have to do is combine all the good things that make lex a good villain. He should be a genius, first and foremost. No insurance scam bulls**t, we're talking Super Science here. We're talking about a guy who has created things that could conceivably hurt, maybe even kill Superman. Second, the Businessman side. He's the smartest man in the world, with one of the biggest, and most profitable companies in the world. He should play this not just as a scientist, but as a ruthless businessman. Combining those two make for the perfect Lex. Lastly, we need proper motivation. Lex is essentially, the perfect human being. Genius on a level never before seen. A modern day da vinci. He came from nothing, and built himself up to become one of the wealthiest men in the world. After that, he went back to the place he grew up, Metropolis. This one horse town that was basically what would happen if you combined Detroit and Newark with a little more piss smell, and turned it into a thriving, wealthy city. Lex did this. This is his city. But, then comes this Superman. This, alien. This outsider, and he takes the city, and hell, the world by storm. Before he showed up, Lex was the pinnacle of human achievement, but what good is human achievement in the face of alien might? Lex, being the futurist that he is, sees the problem that Superman presents. He will be the death of man kind. He is a God, living among mortals. Already the sheep of Metropolis worship him, and it's only been a few weeks since he arrived. He will take Man's need to do what he must do. We'll become worthless sheep, dependant upon one being to do everything for them. He takes away the chaos that is life, and by doing so, he will destroy us all. It's Lex's belief that, he, being the only one that sees this, that See's IT for what it is, must somehow eliminate the threat, for the good of mankind. So, that's Lex's reason. Which is waaaaayyyyy better then some God Damn real estate scam. (What the hell were they thinking?!?) You can almost see his point.

The secondary villain, the muscle, the thing that Lex attacks Supes with would be Metallo. Lex wants to get a proper gauge of just how powerful the alien is, so, he unleashes the most powerful thing in his arsenal. He, through outside sources, hires a guy named John Corban to "steal" a weapon, lets say some kinda super advanced tank with energy beams or something. He does, wrecks much of the city, Supes shows up, Big fight ensues, Corban wont go down easy, ends up hurting himself badly. From this battle, Lex manages to get samples of Supes DNA, he tests a theory about something that he had come into possession of some years ago. A rock of alien origin. He exposes some of Supe's DNA to the rock's radiation and it destroys it. So, there's Kryptonite. Lex then uses the rock for what he was planning to use it for, to power a cybernetic frame made out of a synthetic and highly advanced metal he had Appropriated at some point known as Metallo. A super durable nigh indestructible ore that can absorb other metals into itself. (don't ask how, it's super science, best not to think about it too hard.) He then pays a visit to the paraplegic Mr. Corban, and offers him a chance to walk again, and get some payback on the man of steel. So, brain in the robot, metallo set loose on the city, big, big fight. Giant robot due to absorption of entire city blocks, Kryptonite laser beams, dogs and cats, living together, total anarchy. Supes wins somehow, Right before Corban can give up his accomplices, Lex fries his brain. So, in the end, all that destruction and death, and Lex comes out free and clear, but Supes knows. he knows it had to be Luthor. Can't prove it though. And end it with Lex and Supes having one of those classic starring contests where Supes floats outside his office window, and Lex tells him how he's gonna destroy him, and Supes is all, yeah right *****e bag.

that's my idea for the conflict of course. All that other stuff, mainly the Superman, Lois, Origin stuff can wait for another day.

 

[The Major]

Blade's easier to make into a stand-alone character, because IIRC he didn't start out with any memorable ties to any of the other Marvel Universe characters. Steel, on the other hand, owes his life and his career as a superhero to Superman; you're not doing justice to the character if Superman isn't part of his origin (S:TAS at least got THIS much right, even though the episode itself wasn't anything too special). I think most of us know by now that creativity in a comic-book movie is nothing without at least the slightest iota of respect for the tone and spirit of the original source, which means somehow that Superman has to be involved beyond simply having his shield tattooed on the guy's arm.

It would be easy to have Superman's presence in Steel without actually having a big role. Use cameos, footage from the media ( perhaps even using scenes from a Superman movie its tied to) etc.

They could even set Irons up as a cameo in a Superman movie where he gets rescued or meets Superman so by the time he gets a movie he's already linked. They can just reference that as the beginning of his origin.

That's why I said some runs weren't as good as others. And granted, the existing Catwoman movie is a helluva lot more faithless than Shaq's STEEL was, but people who go into a Catwoman movie would probably STILL expect Batman to show up at some point, and justifiably so, even if they don't know who Selina Kyle is (although after "Batman Returns" and the recent spate of animated shows, I would think that would be in at least some dispute).

I disagree.

Catwoman doesn't need Batman to be interesting.

Like Superman they could have at least one small cameo and the rest just has his presence like Selina hearing criminals discussing Batman at a bar.

A good Catwoman movie would need to establish her totally and not as simply the love interest of Batman. Get her closer to the source material, preferably Brubaker's run. Don't make it campy. Make her totally independent not Batman's little girlfriend.

As long as they ignore the current comic, maybe. David's run was nice, but Matrix/Linda Danvers' origin was convoluted as hell, so there's no way THAT version of Supergirl is ever getting to the screen even if WB did take the prospect of another Supergirl movie seriously.

Not impossible. The current Supergirl would be easier to adapt but far less interesting to viewers.

Linda Danvers could work with some tweaking of the origin. Have matrix be a shape-shifting alien who merges with Linda. They could have Linda being a Superman fan then using him as inspiration for the codename and look. That's all they need.

Dump the Matrix from an alternate reality from an Earth ruled by three evil Krytonians angle where it needs Superman's help to stop them. Lose the angel stuff, as well.

They could use the Supergirl as a foundation from JLU, too. She'd be much more interesting in a movie then the current Kara Zor El.

I guess my overall point is that Steel and Supergirl wouldn't be who they are without Superman's involvement, and Catwoman is well known as the general public as Batman's rooftop dancing partner...but trying to do individual movies about them without compromising those origins or being completely slavish to the "big guns" would be a very difficult proposition (probably more so than just doing a straight-up Batman or Superman movie), even for those creative parties who would at least have tried...and so far only the Salkinds, of all people, have made that list, dubious as the finished product was.

It will be difficult but not impossible.

Solo films would flesh them out from being directly in the shadows of Superman and Batman.

 

[Anubis]

If you want to do a movie for Steel and Supergirl, you gotta introduce them in Superman first. Catwoman, not so much, but after that crap with Hallie Berry a few years ago, i'd just as soon not bother. It may suffer the consequences of a bad first movie like the Hulk. (Only to a far greater extent.)

 

[ANTOINE X]

If you want to do a movie for Steel and Supergirl, you gotta introduce them in Superman first. Catwoman, not so much, but after that crap with Hallie Berry a few years ago, i'd just as soon not bother. It may suffer the consequences of a bad first movie like the Hulk. (Only to a far greater extent.)

Now I'm not saying Hallie Berry is a talented actress but is it really her fault? or Wb made a terrible decision not to follow the comics?

 

[Anubis]

I'm not saying Hallie is a bad actress either, but she was in that movie, and that movie was very bad. And when I think of how bad that movie was, I think of how Bad Hallie Berry was in that movie. Which may have had a lot to do with the WB green lighting such a horror in the first place.....

 

[The Major]

If you want to do a movie for Steel and Supergirl, you gotta introduce them in Superman first.

I agree.

Steel would be much easier to set up. All they need five seconds of Superman rescuing a black construction worker falling from a building they're working on.

They'd need to allow Supergirl to have a huge presence in a movie before spinning her off. They could do this in a Superman sequel after the reboot is established.

Catwoman, not so much, but after that crap with Hallie Berry a few years ago, i'd just as soon not bother.

That's a major reason why Selina Kyle needs to be revived. WB needs to get a Nolan type on her film or give her a better portrayal in the Bat films which is closer to the comics.

It may suffer the consequences of a bad first movie like the Hulk. (Only to a far greater extent.)

Hulk got treated much better in both films then Catwoman has.

Everything can get a bad movie. Catwoman isn't alone with that. She just needs film makers and producers who understand her properly and willing to show her on screen in the best light.

 

[Raiden]

I think aside from hiring a new director and new cast, they should adapt one of the Superman origin stories like Birthright, and just go back to basic but update Supe for the new generation, like what BB did. They will be the first Superman movie that isn't influenced by Donnor, so they should take advantage of this clean slate opportunity and Superman's 70+ years of materials.

 

[The Major]

I think aside from hiring a new director and new cast, they should adapt one of the Superman origin stories like Birthright, and just go back to basic but update Supe for the new generation, like what BB did. They will be the first Superman movie that isn't influenced by Donnor, so they should take advantage of this clean slate opportunity and Superman's 70+ years of materials.

Agreed.

 

[Gamingboy]

The number one thing the Reboot has to do is move Superman past the Early-1970's "Classic" roots and move it closer to the modern-day Superman. It should take it's cues from the DCAU (damn, they did do basically everything right in that, did they?) and the post-crisis Comics. Superman is the secret identity, Clark Kent is the real person. Lex Luthor is a businessman. Metropolis is LIKE New York, but it is NOT New York (I suggest that if they go the Nolan route of using a real city, they use either Toronto or one of the nicer parts of Buffalo. Anyone familiar with Superman's creative history knows that those two cities were, along with New York, the inspiration for Metropolis).


The story should get through the origin real quick, while it's unlikely that any movie could quite match the sheer elegant-in-it's-simplicity of the opening of All-Star Superman, that would be a good starting point. Show the rocket get launched from Krypton, show it land in Kansas, show the Kents coming upon young Kal-El, THEN cut to the chase. If they absolutely MUST feel like they need to flesh out the in-between, show Newspaper headlines (something which I believe was one idea that was cut from Superman Returns) or a family scrapbook or something. Then get to the "present".

I think it should take place a few months after Superman's first appearance. He's familiar to the masses of the World, but he hasn't fought any really big major Supervillains yet (although he still has had to rescue Lois Lane more then once, leading to a running joke in the Daily Planet that she is his girlfriend). We'd start with Superman fighting a autonomous AI battle-robot without any markings. After the fight, he'd X-ray vision the robot and see that it's made by LexCorp. Lois Lane finds this out by just jumping the Police Line and looking at wreckage and grabbing a computer chip that has a Lexcorp logo on it. Needless to say, Lane gets the scoop on the story (since Clark Kent had no way of being there, he doesn't even bother telling Perry). Still, a discussion goes through the Daily Planet editorial staff- should they print it? Luthor is one of the five wealthiest men in the world, a noted genius, a man who has hinted at a political future and who could probably squish any Newspaper like a bug, even the Planet. Needless to say, Perry will have none of this and orders the story printed.

Lex is not happy, but is quickly able to turn the story on it's head by coming up with the story that a disgruntled Employee had reprogrammed the Military Robot simply because he wanted to see how it would do against the Man of Steel. At the press conference, Lex wonders whether Superman is worth it if he is going to inspire such... madmen. At least the kook in Gotham is smart enough to hide in the night. This draws questions from Lois about whether Lex actually believes that Superman is a bad thing. Lex just leaves the stage.

When Lex gets up to the top of tower, he's met with a tap on the window by Superman. This will have been the first time the two have ever met face-to-face for anything more then a few words. Lex tries to smooze and flatterSuperman ("This is the first time I've ever met an Alien."), but Superman will have none of it: why didn't Lex say who the "disgruntled employee" was. Lex says that surely his lady-friend Miss Lois Lane will have figured it out. Superman leaves, but not before telling Lex that "I don't know why you hate me, but don't let that hatred put innocent people at risk." As Superman flies off, Lex screams at him that even suggesting that he actually deliberately sent the robot after him is libel.


To be continued....

 

[The Major]

Agreed.

 

[ANTOINE X]

I'm not saying Hallie is a bad actress either, but she was in that movie, and that movie was very bad. And when I think of how bad that movie was, I think of how Bad Hallie Berry was in that movie. Which may have had a lot to do with the WB green lighting such a horror in the first place.....

Well I really think she is a bad actress. She s just a beautiful girl and that how she could enter in Hollywood. Period. But what I wanted to say is its not only her fault, a big part is WB doing the bad decision and choosing the wrong actress.

 

[ANTOINE X]

As for Superman, I think they should renew Bryan signer 's contract. The guy as talent he just didn,t have the right script.

 

[Raiden]

As for Superman, I think they should renew Bryan signer 's contract. The guy as talent he just didn,t have the right script.

If they want to reboot Superman, then signing Singer will be the worst way to do it. Singer brought his own screenwriters for SR so I don't think you can say that the script isn't his fault.

 

[ANTOINE X]

If they want to reboot Superman, then signing Singer will be the worst way to do it. Singer brought his own screenwriters for SR so I don't think you can say that the script isn't his fault.

For each his own opinion. I think It s a mistake to do a reboot and changing everybody. It's not necessary. I think what killed superman franchise is not just the storyline but also the budget. It cost something near 200M To do it. I'M not trying to save singer's ass but if was less expensive even with singer mistake they could have enough money to do a sequel.

 

[Nitrobot]

It's simple REMOVE THE RIDICULOUS RED UNDERWEAR and change the uniform to this:

Why NOT So Serious?

Let's put BLACK behind the chest emblem!

 

[steelio2006]

it could work. i think that costume is actually pretty cool. but it's Future Superboy as Superman. it worked well for Connor, but cant see it working for Clark

 

[cerealkiller182]

Be similar to Superman 2 general plotline but not Donner/Lester/Singer style, much closer to Timms style and tone.

Superman is a hero living and being effective in Metropolis. Having an affair with Lois Lane, a friendship with Jimmy Olsen (who is a more updated young person), and a rivalry with Lex Luthor (the business man version).

Brainiac should be the big baddie. He offers insight to Supes Kryptonian origins and serves a physical threat to Superman.

I like the Timm version of Brainiac being involved with the destruction of Krypton.

 

[Mogwai]

wb said they were going to go for a 'darker' tone, so i could def see that costume working in this film, nitrobot.

 

[Nitrobot]

Thanks, Mogwai! Cause it is really a "DARKER" version of Superman classic "chillike" or "boylike" uniform...

I believe in Lindy Hemming to create a NEW darker uniform!!!

 

[Nercm]

You know,
If they are going to reboot superman....a lesser known villain would be better.
Not Braniac...Not Darkside...and not Bizarro. Save those guys for the sequels.


What about Parasite?